To teach that people can believe while not in Christ is disbelief in Christ

[Samie]

Both Arminians and Calvinists teach that people are born in sin, born NOT in Christ. And to be in Christ they must believe.

But Jesus taught otherwise as He Himself told His disciples: Apart from me you can do NOTHING (John 15:5). Why can people do NOTHING when NOT in Christ? Because Christ is the only source of power, being the power of God (1 Cor 1:24). And while not PLUGGED IN to Him, man has no other source to derive power from.

By teaching that people are born in sin, being born NOT in Christ, yet they are able to do SOMETHING - believe, is disbelief in the words of the Master Teacher Who Himself said that apart from Him man can do NOTHING.

Are you one of those preachers?

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

No I am not one of those fellows.

Light switch flipped = God's regenerative act by the power of the Holy Spirit
Bulb = you, me, others that are irrevocably illuminated when the switch is flipped. Until the switch is flipped, the "bulb" remains dead as it cannot llluminate itself.

Arminians, open theists, Methodists, non-Reformed Baptists, Lutherans, Romanists, Lone Rangers, and all other anti-Calvinists, inexplicably like to reverse the process. Sigh.

AMR

 

[Samie]

No I am not one of those fellows.

Light switch flipped = God's regenerative act by the power of the Holy Spirit
Bulb = you, me, others that are irrevocably illuminated when the switch is flipped. Until the switch is flipped, the "bulb" remains dead as it cannot llluminate itself.

Arminians, open theists, Methodists, non-Reformed Baptists, Lutherans, Romanists, Lone Rangers, and all other anti-Calvinists, inexplicably like to reverse the process. Sigh.

AMR

Gleaned from your post:

Switch unflipped = man NOT in Christ.
Switch flipped = man In Christ.

Both Arminians and Calvinists teach that people are born in sin, hence, born with switch unflipped. When does man's believing take place, BEFORE or AFTER the flipping of the switch?

 

[Samie]

No I am not one of those fellows.

Light switch flipped = God's regenerative act by the power of the Holy Spirit
Bulb = you, me, others that are irrevocably illuminated when the switch is flipped. Until the switch is flipped, the "bulb" remains dead as it cannot llluminate itself.

Arminians, open theists, Methodists, non-Reformed Baptists, Lutherans, Romanists, Lone Rangers, and all other anti-Calvinists, inexplicably like to reverse the process. Sigh.

AMR

Gleaned from your post, God flipped the switch for some BUT did not for others.

So why would God ask all people everywhere to repent when He did not flip the switch for all?

ESV Acts 17:30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent

Unless the switch is flipped, people have no power to repent; and if people don't repent, they perish. Luke 13:3, 5.

It would appear that God will punish people for not doing what they are NOT able to do. I can't believe this.

Sane people don't punish their cats for NOT barking.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

It would appear that God will punish people for not doing what they are NOT able to do. I can't believe this.

The response to election/predestination is almost always visceral. Come to think of it, emotion is the tool by which most people today attempt to apprehend truth. Sigh.

The usual "well, the reprobate will not believe" is a tautology, since no one but God knows who they are. Are we to presuppose that any particular person with whom we are dealing "may be reprobate?" There is not a shred of scriptural warrant for such an approach. We are to deal with everyone with the conviction that God may be merciful to this lost soul and grant him faith and repentance. So we point all to Christ.

Neither they nor you can know themselves to be reprobate. Indeed, God is the ultimate cause of all that happens, but per His decree He is not the efficient cause of the sinful actions of men. Master the distinctions below:

Foreknowledge presupposes foreordination, but foreknowledge is not itself foreordination. Misunderstandings of these terms have led the uninformed to claim that the related Reformed doctrines are fatalistic.

From these misunderstandings, we see incorrect statements such as the following:

Necessity of a hypothetical inference...
If God foreknew Peter would sin, then Peter cannot refrain from sinning. (Incorrect)

The interpretation above wrongly interprets God's foreknowledge as impinging upon Peter's moral free agency. The proper understanding is:

The necessity of the consequent of the hypothetical...
Necessarily, if God foreknew Peter would sin, then Peter does not refrain from sinning. (Correct)

In other words, the actions of moral free agents do not take place because they are foreseen, the actions are foreseen because the actions are certain to take place.

So rather than trying to peek behind the curtain, trust that all who call upon the name will not be turned away. Those in Hell are full of regret, but not repentance. They hate the consequences of their actions, but they do not hate their sins. If they were genuinely repentant, they would recognize that they are exactly where they should be. Rather, they continue to hate God even while therein.

There is not a single person who could claim "I was not able to call upon the name of the Lord because I was reprobate." Instead they were born sinners and spent their lives hating God and have no excuse. Just have a conversation with a non-believer and listen to the myriad of excuses they will proffer for their unbelief. You genuinely know they are not automatons having their wills overthrown by God, but actually persons who have rationalized their anti-belief despite the first book of special revelation, creation, that clearly testifies to the existence of God.

Their inability coincides with their unwillingness. It is a blindness (as Paul put in his letter to the Ephesians) of the heart. Just as we would consider the man who is unable to have sympathy or love for his child especially (not less!) wicked, so the person who is unable to come to Christ is more not less culpable because his inability is the inability of his own wicked heart.

For that matter, exactly why does God owe all mercy for their sinful state of affairs, in Adam? Adam was made upright, but mutable. On probation. He was our perfect representative. After all, God made him and gave him the moral ability to sin or not to sin. Not one of us could have done better than the first Adam. As our representative, Adam failed his probation: do this and live. As our representative Adam's failure was imputed to all his progeny, hence we are born sinners owed nothing but justice, not mercy.

What tickles our creaturely and curious minds, is exactly how God simultaneously pulls off His sovereignty and man's responsibility. From Scripture we know that God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass (Eph. 1:11,Rom. 11:33, Heb. 6:17, Rom. 9:15,18): yet neither is God the author of sin, (James 1:13,17, 1 John 1:5) nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established (Acts 2:23, Matt. 17:12, Acts 4:27-28, John 19:11, Prov. 16:33) by God in His decree. Carefully digest that last bit. God's decree to create man includes (establishes) man's liberty of spontaneity (Scripture's "free will", not the libertarian free will claimed by others) as well as contingencies (from our perspective, not God's) of second causes.

This is, I think, a carefully, Biblically-reasoned approach to the decrees of God and all that comes to pass in creation and providence. Does God ordain whatsoever comes to pass? Yes. Does this negate free will or contingency? No. Those who answer otherwise need to be aware that they are not speaking Biblically about the matter.

AMR

 

[Samie]

AMR;

I have carefully read and digested your response. However, I don't think it directly addressed the issue I raised in my post you responded to.

Gleaned from your post, God flipped the switch for some BUT did not for others.

So why would God ask all people everywhere to repent when He did not flip the switch for all?

ESV Acts 17:30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent

Unless the switch is flipped, people have no power to repent; and if people don't repent, they perish. Luke 13:3, 5.

It would appear that God will punish people for not doing what they are NOT able to do. I can't believe this.

Sane people don't punish their cats for NOT barking.

But if you did address the issue directly, can you reword your response so I could easily realize how the issue in my post was directly addressed?

Thanks.

 

[oatmeal]

Both Arminians and Calvinists teach that people are born in sin, born NOT in Christ. And to be in Christ they must believe.

But Jesus taught otherwise as He Himself told His disciples: Apart from me you can do NOTHING (John 15:5). Why can people do NOTHING when NOT in Christ? Because Christ is the only source of power, being the power of God (1 Cor 1:24). And while not PLUGGED IN to Him, man has no other source to derive power from.

By teaching that people are born in sin, being born NOT in Christ, yet they are able to do SOMETHING - believe, is disbelief in the words of the Master Teacher Who Himself said that apart from Him man can do NOTHING.

Are you one of those preachers?

Have you read the entire verse?

John 15:5

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Are you abiding in him? How do you do that? By believing on him.

Really? Can people sin? Yes, they can, does God in Christ provide the power for people sin in Christ?

Does God condone sin?

If your interpretation is right, then the only way people have the power to sin, to reject God, to live like the devil is through Christ? Is that what you are saying?

Maybe you should elaborate?

Romans 10:

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[oatmeal]

Both Arminians and Calvinists teach that people are born in sin, born NOT in Christ. And to be in Christ they must believe.

But Jesus taught otherwise as He Himself told His disciples: Apart from me you can do NOTHING (John 15:5). Why can people do NOTHING when NOT in Christ? Because Christ is the only source of power, being the power of God (1 Cor 1:24). And while not PLUGGED IN to Him, man has no other source to derive power from.

By teaching that people are born in sin, being born NOT in Christ, yet they are able to do SOMETHING - believe, is disbelief in the words of the Master Teacher Who Himself said that apart from Him man can do NOTHING.

Are you one of those preachers?

John 3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


Why the requirement to be born again if you were born in Christ?

How does a person get born again?

Do Romans 10:9

 

[Samie]

oatmeal;

KJV Ecclesiastes 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

 

[Samie]

Why the requirement to be born again if you were born in Christ?

How does a person get born again?

Do Romans 10:9

oatmeal;

NAS 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

 

[Samie]

The response to election/predestination is almost always visceral. Come to think of it, emotion is the tool by which most people today attempt to apprehend truth. Sigh.

I am not one of them. I appeal to Scriptures. I believe all of Adam's descendants were predestinated, as Scriptures say. Those who will eventually end up in the lake of fire were blotted out by Christ from the book of life.

The usual "well, the reprobate will not believe" is a tautology,
since no one but God knows who they are.

What is tautology is to presuppose that God is a partial God, flicking the switch for some but did not for others among those purely descended from Adam.

Are we to presuppose that any particular person with whom we are dealing "may be reprobate?" There is not a shred of scriptural warrant for such an approach. We are to deal with everyone with the conviction that God may be merciful to this lost soul and grant him faith and repentance. So we point all to Christ.

Neither they nor you can know themselves to be reprobate. Indeed, God is the ultimate cause of all that happens, but per His decree He is not the efficient cause of the sinful actions of men.

Agree.

Master the distinctions below:

Foreknowledge presupposes foreordination, but foreknowledge is not itself foreordination. Misunderstandings of these terms have led the uninformed to claim that the related Reformed doctrines are fatalistic.

From these misunderstandings, we see incorrect statements such as the following:

Necessity of a hypothetical inference...
If God foreknew Peter would sin, then Peter cannot refrain from sinning. (Incorrect)

The interpretation above wrongly interprets God's foreknowledge as impinging upon Peter's moral free agency. The proper understanding is:

The necessity of the consequent of the hypothetical...
Necessarily, if God foreknew Peter would sin, then Peter does not refrain from sinning. (Correct)

You are here violating your own "switch flipping" analogy. Applying your "switch flipping" analogy, Peter CANNOT and DOES NOT stop from sinning because, God did not flick the switch for him to be able to NOT sin.

In other words, the actions of moral free agents do not take place because they are foreseen, the actions are foreseen because the actions are certain to take place.

And that's because as per your "switch flipping" analogy, God flipped the switch for some BUT not for others, which makes of God a partial, instead of impartial, God.

In contrast, Scriptures tell of an impartial God Who, through Christ, as revealed on the cross (2 Tim 1:8-10; Eph 2:11-19), created a new man: Christ the Head, humanity the Body (all of Adam's progeny). When the Head died, the body likewise died (2 Cor 5:14. 15; Heb 2:9). When the Head was resurrected, the Body was likewise made alive together with Him (Col 2:13, 14; Eph 2:4-6), born again into a new hope of life eternal (1 Pet 1:3; Titus 3:7).

Hence, God had flipped the switch for them all, now that they are all In Christ Who is the ONLY Source of power being the power of God (1 Cor 1:24). BUT only overcomers of evil will not be blotted out from the book of life.

So rather than trying to peek behind the curtain, trust that all who call upon the name will not be turned away. Those in Hell are full of regret, but not repentance. They hate the consequences of their actions, but they do not hate their sins. If they were genuinely repentant, they would recognize that they are exactly where they should be. Rather, they continue to hate God even while therein.

There is not a single person who could claim "I was not able to call upon the name of the Lord because I was reprobate." Instead they were born sinners and spent their lives hating God and have no excuse. Just have a conversation with a non-believer and listen to the myriad of excuses they will proffer for their unbelief. You genuinely know they are not automatons having their wills overthrown by God, but actually persons who have rationalized their anti-belief despite the first book of special revelation, creation, that clearly testifies to the existence of God.

To this I can agree.

But not because God did not flip the switch for those who will end up in the lake of fire, but rather, our impartial God flipped the switch but the the power that flowed to them they instead used to do evil instead of overcoming evil with good.

Their inability coincides with their unwillingness. It is a blindness (as Paul put in his letter to the Ephesians) of the heart. Just as we would consider the man who is unable to have sympathy or love for his child especially (not less!) wicked, so the person who is unable to come to Christ is more not less culpable because his inability is the inability of his own wicked heart.

You can put the blame on your "switch flipping" analogy: he cannot do otherwise since God did not flip the switch for them.

For that matter, exactly why does God owe all mercy for their sinful state of affairs, in Adam? Adam was made upright, but mutable. On probation. He was our perfect representative. After all, God made him and gave him the moral ability to sin or not to sin. Not one of us could have done better than the first Adam. As our representative, Adam failed his probation: do this and live.

Agree.

As our representative Adam's failure was imputed to all his progeny, hence we are born sinners owed nothing but justice, not mercy.

Disagree.

God, through Christ, saved Adam that same day he sinned by implementing the plan of salvation He devised before the beginning of time as revealed on the cross (2 Tim 1:8-10), and IMMEDIATELY sent down the ambulance with the physician of heaven right after the emergency occurred in Eden, an act that cost the Father His only begotten Son - the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8)! With Adam saved in Christ, all his progeny are born in Christ, born part of His Body (Eph 2:11-19).

And since we are in Christ - the ONLY Source of power being the power of God, for us all - progeny of Adam, the switch had been flipped for us by God. We now are empowered to be able to repent - to overcome evil with good. That is why God now commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30).

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

We now are empowered to be able to repent - to overcome evil with good. That is why God now commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30).

As I have often stated, these discussions always start with one's understanding of what exactly happened at the fall of Adam.

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?126873-What-is-the-Gospel&p=5109013&viewfull=1#post5109013

I prefer to not adopt Rome's notions of prevenient grace remaining in the fallen man. Rome began this error and the non-Calvinists have all took the bait. Sigh.

AMR

 

[Samie]

As I have often stated, these discussions always start with one's understanding of what exactly happened at the fall of Adam.

So what exactly happened?

Was God caught by surprise? No; He knows the end from the beginning (Isa 46:10). Was He ready? Yes, the contingency plan had been in place before the beginning of time (2 Tim 1:8-10). Would He implement the plan when the emergency comes? Of course, why would He not? He is (INSTEAD OF will be) the Savior of ALL men (1 Tim 4:10), and that NECESSARILY includes Adam. And He saved Adam through Christ, for no other name under heaven was given for man's salvation (Acts 4:12). With Adam in Christ, all his descendants are born in Christ (see for a parallelism Heb 7:9-10).

Does it appear that the contents of the above paragraph are simply visceral and NOT OF the Scripture?

I prefer to not adopt Rome's notions of prevenient grace remaining in the fallen man. Rome began this error and the non-Calvinists have all took the bait. Sigh.

AMR

The bait that was taken along with the hook, line and sinker is the notion of people being born in sin, proferred by a Catholic monk, Augustine of Hippo. Both Arminians and Calvinists swallowed it up in one big gulp.

 

[Squeaky]

TO BE IN CHRIST
To be in Christ is to be in the revelations of Jesus Christ. One has to go through the three years of the milk understanding and eleven years of the meat understanding following the Holy Spirit and purging their carnality and then receive the revelations of Jesus Christ and walk according to them.

In Christ

I Jn 2:4-5
4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
Gal 6:2-5
2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
3 For if anyone thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself.
4 But let each one examine his own work, and then he will have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
5 For each one shall bear his own load.
Col 2:5-7
5 For though I am absent in the flesh, yet I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good order and the steadfastness of your faith in Christ.
6 As you have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
7 rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.
2 Cor 5:17
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
Rom 8:1-2
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
John 15:16-20
16 "You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.
17 "These things I command you, that you love one another.
18 "If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.
19 "If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
20 "Remember the word that I said to you, 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also.
Rom 8:38-39
38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Rom 9:1
1 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit,
1 Cor 3:1-3
1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ.
2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able;
3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?
John 14:25
25 "These things I have spoken to you while being present with you.
John 14:28-30
28 "You have heard Me say to you, 'I am going away and coming back to you.' If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, 'I am going to the Father,' for My Father is greater than I.
29 "And now I have told you before it comes, that when it does come to pass, you may believe.
30 "I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me.
John 14:15
15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments.
John 14:21
21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."
Rom 16:24-27
24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began
26 but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith--
27 to God, alone wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.
1 Cor 1:4-9
4 I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given to you by Christ Jesus,
5 that you were enriched in everything by Him in all utterance and all knowledge,
6 even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you,
7 so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,
8 who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 Cor 1:30-31
30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God-- and righteousness and sanctification and redemption--
31 that, as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the Lord."
Gal 2:20-21
20 "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
21 "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."
Gal 5:24-25
24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
1 Cor 1:2-7
2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
4 I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given to you by Christ Jesus,
5 that you were enriched in everything by Him in all utterance and all knowledge,
6 even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you,
7 so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,
(NKJ)

XXX In Christ means to be led by Jesus Christ through the revelations of Jesus Christ that Paul spoke of. One spends three years in the milk finding the Holy Spirit. One follows the Holy Spirit into the meat understanding for eleven years. Then one comes to the revelations of Jesus Christ. That is when Christ becomes the Holy Spirit. Your in Christ when your in the revelations of Jesus Christ.

Luke 13:25-27
25 "When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open for us,' and He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know you, where you are from,'
26 "then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.'
27 "But He will say, 'I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.'
Luke 6:46-47
46 "But why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do the things which I say?
47 "Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like:
Matt 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
(NKJ)

2 Cor 3:17-18
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.
(NKJ)


2 Tim 3:14-15
14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them,
15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
(NKJ)

Col 2:1-3

1 For I want you to know what a great conflict I have for you and those in Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh,
2 that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, and attaining to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God, both of the Father and of Christ,
3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
(NKJ)


Rom 3:24-26
24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
(NKJ)

John 3:16-21
16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 "But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."
(NKJ)

I Jn 5:20
20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
(NKJ)

Gal 4:4-5
4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
(NKJ)


I Jn 3:24
24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
(NKJ)

I Jn 4:12-13
12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.
13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.
(NKJ)

I Jn 1:8-10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
(NKJ)

2 Cor 13:5-6
5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?-- unless indeed you are disqualified.
6 But I trust that you will know that we are not disqualified.
(NKJ)

John 16:33
33 "These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."
(NKJ)

Rom 8:38-39
38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(NKJ)

 

[Samie]

TO BE IN CHRIST
To be in Christ is to be in the revelations of Jesus Christ. One has to go through the three years of the milk understanding and eleven years of the meat understanding following the Holy Spirit and purging their carnality and then receive the revelations of Jesus Christ and walk according to them.

If UNLESS one does the act of receiving the revelations of Jesus Christ he couldn't be in Christ, then how did he have the power to do the act of receiving while NOT yet in Christ Who is the ONLY Source of power being the power of God (1 Cor 1:24)?