ECT To all of you cessationalists

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I am reading an excerpt from Bruce Olson's testimony a missionary to the S.A. Motilone Indians. This part is from when he was captured revolutionaries back int 70's and 80's who considered him a threat that either had to persuaded to join them or be eliminated. This bit takes place after about 5-6 mos into his captivity and after he had persuaded several guerrillas, by the example of his life, to Christ with rest to trusting him. [The full account explains the "how" of all of this that is quite amazing]. He fell seriously ill with no hope but God. I hope you will take the time to read the whole account by the Link at the bottom:

***** "Once, for example, during the latter part of my captivity, I suffered a severe attack of diverticulitis -- one of several attacks that involved severe hemorrhaging. I lost about two quarts of blood this time, was in excruciating pain and eventually lost consciousness. When I awakened I was being examined by a doctor the guerrillas had brought into the jungle. He said only a blood transfusion could save my life.

******* Immediately a fight broke out among the guerrillas over who would win the "honor" of giving their blood for me. A young Christian guerrilla was one of those chosen. After the transfusions were completed, he sat with me for a while. "My blood now flows in your veins, Papa Bruchko," he told me. There were tears in his eyes. And in mine, too.

******* Later that night I awakened in terrible pain. I tried to separate myself from it, but this time I couldn't. I was too weak, too exhausted. I felt empty and hollow, and the intensity of the physical pain increased my enormous sadness over the things I'd experienced in the previous months. There was no comfort for me, I thought. None. I had never experienced such total anguish.

******* Then an absolutely amazing thing happened: A bird known in Colombia as the mirla began to sing. I looked up and saw the full moon pouring down through the thick jungle vegetation and felt, inexplicably, that it was shining for me. The mirla's song was the most hauntingly beautiful sound I'd ever heard. As I listened, I wondered why it seemed so familiar, why it soothed me so deeply .

******* The bird's song soared through the damp, moonlit air as I clung to consciousness.

******* The music was incredibly complex, set in a minor key. The notes never repeated; they reminded me more and more of something achingly familiar, something comforting -- but I just couldn't put my finger on it. An ancient Aramaic chant -- was that it? Yes, it was reminiscent of that -- but why did it make me think of the resurrection of Christ?

******* The familiarity puzzled me, but I had no real need to understand it. The music was the most exquisite I had ever heard; I was sure of that. It was communicating something profound to me, something I needed desperately but couldn't identify. I let the song carry me for a long time. Then I lost consciousness again.

******* When I came to, the bird was still singing. I wondered whether I might be hallucinating. After all, everyone knew mirlas never sing at night. And I was desperately ill, barely hanging on to life. It wouldn't be unusual to hallucinate in my condition. But what I was more intent on trying to understand was why this song -- real or imagined -- was having such an amazing, restorative effect on my spirit. I could feel myself coming back to life with each note.

******* Then, as the bird's song continued to penetrate the quiet night air, I knew: I knew why this song seemed so hauntingly familiar, why it spoke to me of the resurrection, why it comforted me like familiar, loving arms. The mirla was singing a Motilone minor-key tonal chant, mimicking the traditional sounds with such amazing accuracy that I could almost hear their words, could almost see my friends Kaymiyokba and Waysersera and ll the other Motilones I loved, singing the prophecies of the resurrection of Christ in the timeless Motilone way, our hammocks swaying together in the rafters of a communal home in the jungles as they had for the 28 years I'd lived among them. I could almost feel their warm, reassuring hugs.

******* In that moment I was lifted above my agony in a way I'll never be able to describe adequately. I didn't even care whether it was real or imagined. The Motilones were with me; I knew it now. I had not been abandoned. And I was going to survive to be with them again, because God had used the mirla's song to transfuse His lifeblood into me.

******* One of the guerrillas walked over to my hammock as I opened my eyes at dawn. The pain was subsiding a little.

******* "So," he said softly, "how did you like your personal concert last night?"
******* I questioned him with my eyes. "The mirla," he said. "His song kept us awake all night long. We've never heard anything like it!* The boys wondered whether it was a special angel sent to sing for you. Did you hear it?"

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...r__7Bvk2nZiYsGTmoKYlb6g&bvm=bv.87611401,d.cWc
 
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Cross Reference

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"When he first went to South America, Bruce's well-to-do family and various mission organizations expressed distress at his intentions.* He was told he had neither the education nor the experience to prepare him for such a venture.* And when Bruce responded that he knew God was leading him to do this, they were angered by his insolence."

His success testifies to the Pentecostal power of God over the supposed need for seminary credentials.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
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These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. 9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, 10 nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food.

Oh you full of fraud and deceit.
 

Cross Reference

New member
Why would anyone want to be a cessationist except they don't want to admit their lack of belief for the promise of God/expose their lack of desire to be more in Him and being content just to escape damnation by saying the sinners prayer __ their motive being they love the world and don't wish to be disturbed?
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,

Powers of the age to come will be common to that age.

They are exceptional to this age.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Mar 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Mar 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
 

Cross Reference

New member
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,

Powers of the age to come will be common to that age.

They are exceptional to this age.


Indeed they are, however, God will have His people and they will be without "spot or wrinkle". They will be those who love Him even unto their own death __ the price many will have to pay, amen??
"Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly." (Dan. 12:10.)
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
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Why would anyone want to not be witness to the world in the bright spotlight?

27 “Whatever I tell you in the dark, speak in the light; and what you hear in the ear, preach on the housetops.

Perhaps you could restore some heads that islam lopped off? Or don't you have the faith needed?
 

nikolai_42

Well-known member
Raise the dead on video or shut up.

The problem with signs, wonders and miracles - or rather the raising of the matter - is focus. None will deny that God can do any number of miracles - including raising the dead - but many deny that He actively does (physically speaking, of course). Similarly with healings and miraculous deliverances undeniably from God. The problem comes in when it becomes personal - about an individual being able to do it. Jesus healed as quietly as He could and always attributed the miracles to His Heavenly Father. Likewise, anyone who witnesses such deliverance on a regular basis.

What scoffers do is make it about the individual when the real issue is if the power of God is for today in all aspects of life. Isn't that what was done by the mockers at the Crucifixion? They made it simply about Him (which, by extension, is true). Didn't the Jewish rulers beat Him and tell Him to prophesy who was delivering the blows? Jesus could have, but He didn't. The issue was always about the glory of God - not about the individual.

No true man of God will claim the power as his own - but then if the issue is not the individual ability, why make it so? Where did any individual (thinking of the OP) even pretend to claim glory for himself in any way (directly or indirectly)?
 

musterion

Well-known member
Would that convince you?? I don't think so. The heathen of any stripe, are never convinced.

Independently shot and verified video, independently analyzed for the usual charismatic hokum and chicanery? I'd give it the benefit of the doubt, that's for sure.

If you speak the truth, you have nothing to lose.
 

andyc

New member
Independently shot and verified video, independently analyzed for the usual charismatic hokum and chicanery? I'd give it the benefit of the doubt, that's for sure.

If you speak the truth, you have nothing to lose.

Now that wouldn't be faith, would it?

What if an atheist wanted the same proof for God's existence?

You must be persuaded from the word, that all things are possible to those who believe.
 

Cross Reference

New member
Independently shot and verified video, independently analyzed for the usual charismatic hokum and chicanery? I'd give it the benefit of the doubt, that's for sure.
Bully for you!
If you speak the truth, you have nothing to lose.

. . . . . and I have nothing to gain and everything to lose by tempting God. I don't require of God such signs and wonders. I "know" His Word. So YOU make that demand of God.
 

musterion

Well-known member
. . . and I have nothing to gain and everything to lose by tempting God.

If it's a gift He's given you, He's given it to you to use for His glory. There's no tempting Him by using ANY of His gifts.

IF you actually have them, that is. Since you have no gifts, the point is moot.

So YOU make that demand of God.
I make no demands of God. I expect loudmouth gentile charismatics who claim Israel's deactivated miracles to put their money where their mouths are. Don't hide the gifts you claim He's given under a bushel. Show them. That's what they're for.
 

musterion

Well-known member
Now that wouldn't be faith, would it?

Idiot. No one in the N.T. was asked to have faith in the sign and wonder miracles they saw. The miracles were self-verifying of the truth of the apostles' preaching.

What if an atheist wanted the same proof for God's existence?
They'd be biblically correct in asking you for them.

Tongues, and by extension the other sign and wonder miracles, were expressly intended for unbelievers (1 Cor 14:22). Of course you dismiss any passage of the Bible that doesn't support your delusions so you'll wave that away as a gnat.

You must be persuaded from the word, that all things are possible to those who believe.
I'm already persuaded because I already believe. The signs and wonders were not targeted at me.

Why do you deny your signs and wonders to the unbelieving, perishing world God intended them for (1 Cor 14:22)? Do you not believe that verse?
 
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