The Vicarious Life and Death of Christ for the Believer
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
John, you have little understanding of spiritual things.
You must believe that the Bible is full of contradictions.
There is nothing wrong with Romans 3:31. We establish the law by being "In Christ". When God sees us "In Christ" he sees us as being perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. Because of the justifying work of Christ that was done in our name and on our behalf we establish the law.
You cannot establish the law by your works or your obedience to the law, simply because you were born after Adam, Romans 5:12. You, like everyone else were born in sin, Romans 3:10. What makes you think that you can establish the law? God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners, which you are one of.
Once again you don't seem to understand the scriptures.
“Here are they that keep the commandments of God AND the faith OF Jesus Christ.”
glorydaz
Well-known member
What verse are you citing?
thanks but no thanks...
He merely parrots what most Christians say...like those who reject that the Sabbath was made for man...or that woman was too...they reject woman was made for man too...http://www.gaychristian101.com/Christians-Under-Law.html
glorydaz
Well-known member
Romans 3:10 does not say we are born in sin. Please stick to what is actually written.
http://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/14-12.htm
Notice it is keep the faith OF Jesus...not just faith IN Jesus...
Those that keep the faith walk He walked...not some man made traditions or revisions
glorydaz
Well-known member
Ah, Revelations. No wonder. :rapture:
You, like John W, believe that the Bible contradicts itself.
We keep the commandments by being "In Christ". God sees all that are "In Christ" as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.
How about Psalm 51:5.
If "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. I would bet that they were born after Adam.
"Wherefore as by one man sin entered the world and death by sin; and so death PASSED UPON ALL MEN, for that all have sinned" Roman5:12.
I have witnessed to hundreds maybe thousands on a one to one basis. I have found that no matter how many scriptures you read to them, some just don't get it. You are one of them. I have given you enough light through the scriptures to light a city. But you still cannot believe that the law has been abolished. I suspect that the reason is that you are void of the Holy Spirit who is the teacher of truth, John 16:13.
"But now WE ARE DELIVERED FROM THE LAW, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in NEWNESS OF THE SPIRIT and NOT IN THE OLDNESS OF THE LETTER" (the law) Romans 7:6.
Spam. Evasion.
Just show us, demon Pate, why you revised:
Romans 3:31 KKV Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
To:
Romans 3:31 666 Pate version: Do we then make void the law through faith? yea, we abolish the law.
You wicked demon, bible deleter, corrupter, hater of God and his holy, just, perfect, right, spiritual, and not void law, which, you, on record, satanically assert is void.
Pate/the devil revises 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV,
From: Christ died for our sins...
To:Christ died to destroy the law, so that their is no offence, transgression/sin debt, from which He needs to die for...
And revises Romans 4:25 KJV
From: Who was delivered for our offences, ...
To: Who was delivered to destroy the law, so that their is no offence, transgression/sin debt, from which He needs to die for, be delivered, as there is no offence, as sin is not imputed when the law is abolished, as there is no sin debt.
....and perverting/corrupting Paul's teaching/point.
Devil child Pate asserts, on record, that the Saviour did not die for our sin debt/IOU, paying our debt, in our place, as the solution, and, instead, asserts, on record, that this "Jesus" is an incompetent, impotent fool,UNABLE TO DIE FOR ALL OF OUR SINS, future sins, as is God the Father, for even sending Him to die, as devil child Pate's "solution" to the sin/sins problem, is to eliminate the law that defines the sin/transgression, thus, "presto," there is no offense/transgression/sin for which to die, instead of the Saviour dying for our future sin debt. Do you all "get that," TOL audience? That, in simple terms, is this satanist "argument," breaking it down. Again, Pate asserts that the solution to the sin/sins issue, is not that the Saviour died for our sin debt in the future, which is contrary to us, for breaking the LORD God's perfect,good, holy,just, spiritual law, and a reflection of His character to both the saved and lost, and not that we are the problem, but the problem is with the law, as it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not spiritual, as laws against murder, rape, lying, stealing......are all contrary to us, so, instead of the Saviour dying in our place, to satisfy the debt/IOU, abolish the law, so that there is no offense/transgression/sin for which He should die, and thus abolish the Saviour's work, as Pate asserts that the Saviour DID NOT DIE FOR OUR FUTURE SINS, SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DIE, for our future sins/sin debt. Thus, Pate asserts he died in vain, for nothing, as his "solution" is to abolish/eliminate/destroy/make void the law, so that there is no future sin/transgression/offense, and associated/corresponding wage/sin debt to be paid for. Again-Pate-Christ died in vain.
Mayor STP:"It's not that complicated."
Pate argues that the solution to the sins issue, is not Christ dying for our sins, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, to blot out/wipe out/pay for the sin debt, both past/future, "man's IOU" for breaking the good, holy, spiritual law of God, per Paul, in Romans 7, which Paul asserts is not void, as the problem is not with man, but with the God's law, as he asserts that it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not just, it is not spiritual, as it is the law, that is contrary/against us, according to Pate, those troublesome prohibitions against murder, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery, lying......and not the sin debt/IOU that is contrary to/against us; Again, Pate denies that the sin debt/IOU is contrary/ against us, as He asserts that God's laws against murder, lying, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery,......................................are contrary/against us, are not for our benefit, are not good, not holy, not spiritual; His "solution" is for the LORD God to destroy/abolish/make void the law, so there is no offense to break, in the future, not Christ dying for our sins, He paying the debt/IOU for us, in our place.
Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that Christ died in vain, there was no reason to die, as He did not need to die to pay our IOU/sin debt, as all the LORD God had to do, was destroy/abolish/make void/eliminate the law, so there would not be a sin debt/IOU. Thus, he then,like the devil attempts to ...
Delete "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is perfect, good, holy, just, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.
Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not prefect/good/holy/spiritual,as he asserts that it causes us to sin, as it is sin, and the problem is not with man/him, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.
From: Christ died for our sins...
To:Christ died to destroy the law, so that their is no offence, transgression/sin debt, from which He needs to die for...
And revises Romans 4:25 KJV
From: Who was delivered for our offences, ...
To: Who was delivered to destroy the law, so that their is no offence, transgression/sin debt, from which He needs to die for, be delivered, as there is no offence, as sin is not imputed when the law is abolished, as there is no sin debt.
....and perverting/corrupting Paul's teaching/point.
Devil child Pate asserts, on record, that the Saviour did not die for our sin debt/IOU, paying our debt, in our place, as the solution, and, instead, asserts, on record, that this "Jesus" is an incompetent, impotent fool,UNABLE TO DIE FOR ALL OF OUR SINS, future sins, as is God the Father, for even sending Him to die, as devil child Pate's "solution" to the sin/sins problem, is to eliminate the law that defines the sin/transgression, thus, "presto," there is no offense/transgression/sin for which to die, instead of the Saviour dying for our future sin debt. Do you all "get that," TOL audience? That, in simple terms, is this satanist "argument," breaking it down. Again, Pate asserts that the solution to the sin/sins issue, is not that the Saviour died for our sin debt in the future, which is contrary to us, for breaking the LORD God's perfect,good, holy,just, spiritual law, and a reflection of His character to both the saved and lost, and not that we are the problem, but the problem is with the law, as it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not spiritual, as laws against murder, rape, lying, stealing......are all contrary to us, so, instead of the Saviour dying in our place, to satisfy the debt/IOU, abolish the law, so that there is no offense/transgression/sin for which He should die, and thus abolish the Saviour's work, as Pate asserts that the Saviour DID NOT DIE FOR OUR FUTURE SINS, SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DIE, for our future sins/sin debt. Thus, Pate asserts he died in vain, for nothing, as his "solution" is to abolish/eliminate/destroy/make void the law, so that there is no future sin/transgression/offense, and associated/corresponding wage/sin debt to be paid for. Again-Pate-Christ died in vain.
Mayor STP:"It's not that complicated."
Pate argues that the solution to the sins issue, is not Christ dying for our sins, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, to blot out/wipe out/pay for the sin debt, both past/future, "man's IOU" for breaking the good, holy, spiritual law of God, per Paul, in Romans 7, which Paul asserts is not void, as the problem is not with man, but with the God's law, as he asserts that it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not just, it is not spiritual, as it is the law, that is contrary/against us, according to Pate, those troublesome prohibitions against murder, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery, lying......and not the sin debt/IOU that is contrary to/against us; Again, Pate denies that the sin debt/IOU is contrary/ against us, as He asserts that God's laws against murder, lying, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery,......................................are contrary/against us, are not for our benefit, are not good, not holy, not spiritual; His "solution" is for the LORD God to destroy/abolish/make void the law, so there is no offense to break, in the future, not Christ dying for our sins, He paying the debt/IOU for us, in our place.
Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that Christ died in vain, there was no reason to die, as He did not need to die to pay our IOU/sin debt, as all the LORD God had to do, was destroy/abolish/make void/eliminate the law, so there would not be a sin debt/IOU. Thus, he then,like the devil attempts to ...
Delete "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is perfect, good, holy, just, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.
Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not prefect/good/holy/spiritual,as he asserts that it causes us to sin, as it is sin, and the problem is not with man/him, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.
Ummm no according to you we don’t...as according to you there are NO MORE COMMANDMENTS
No standard of conduct...no measure...all that was abolished...according to you and other Christians who wish to do as they please and other of man’s traditions
You apparently don't read anything that I say.
"Wherefore the law is holy and the commandment holy and just and good" Romans 7:12.
The law is holy just and good because the law reveals the nature and the character of God. God is holy, holy, holy, beyond human comprehension. In the judgment all things will be judged according to God's holy law. All wrongs will be made right and all rights will be rewarded. But do you want to be judged according to God's standard? Not me.
This is why the law has been abolished for the Christian.
"Blotting out the handwritten of ordinances THAT WAS AGAINST US, which was CONTRARY to us and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross" Colossians 2:14.
Jesus being kind and merciful, knew that we could not keep it or do it, so he abolished it for us, Ephesians 2:15. You should be very happy that the law has been abolished. Paul was.
"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in NEWNESS OF THE SPIRIT and not in the oldness of the letter (the law) Romans 7:6.
The purpose of the law is to judge and condemn. This is why Paul wrote to the law loving Galatians that were trying to be justified by their works.
"Tell me that you desire to be under the law, DO YOU NOT HEAR THE LAW? Galatians 4:21.
To be under the law is to be under a curse, Galatians 3:10. Those that are under the law will perish, simply because their righteousness does not meet the standards of God's law, Romans 3:23. Let's be honest John. Do you want to stand before God in the judgment? not me. I want Jesus to stand in my place in the judgment. The only thing that is going to pass in the judgment is the righteousness of Christ. If you are not found to be in him you will perish, Philippians 3:9.
You do understand that to be under the law is to be condemned, don't you? Galatians 3:10.
We are delivered from the law, Romans 7:6, so that we can live by the Holy Spirit and not the law.
" Who has made us able ministers of the New Testament; not of the letter (law) BUT OF THE SPIRIT: for the letter (law) kills , but the spirit gives life" 2 Corinthians 3:6.
Yes-all he does is spam his father the devil's words, with intoxicated blabberings, gruntings. Answer the questions, you piece of dung, Pate. When you sin, what objectively defines the sin/transgression/offence, since, according to your satanism, the law no longer exists.
2 months of being asked that, by me, and others, and not a peep from this demon.
No, you assert that the problem is with the law, demon, not you, as you assert that it makes people sin, it is not holy, spiritual, perfect, good, and you assert, on record, that it has to be abolished, for one to be saved, as the law of God, such as prohibiting rape, lying, stealing, murder.........................IS CONTRARY TO EVERYONE, NOT THE SIN DEBT, for breaking these holy...........laws.
You are of your father, the devil.
Intoxicated, demonic "logic," as this demon infested continually spams this made up "Abolished for Christians...UNABOLISHED for the lost," butchering, in demonism, corrupting, the meaning of the word, and, once again, satanically asserting that the Saviour DID NOT DIE FOR OUR FUTURE SIN DEBT, as HE DIED TO ABOLISH THE LAW, SO THAT THERE IS NO FUTURE SIN DEBT. Thus, he ASSERTS,ON RECORD, AGAIN, THAT THE SAVIOUR DIED FOR NOTHING.
He again asserts, satanically,like the devil, attempts to delete "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is perfect, good, holy, just, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.
You vile, wicked spammer, as your daddy the devil keeps urging you to change/delete/replace scripture.
The $2 bill of the US has been cancelled.
"the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV,
Pate's devilish rendition:The US has been cancelled/The ordinances were cancelled.
Satanist.
Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not perfect/good/holy/spiritual,as he asserts that it causes us to sin, as it is sin, and the problem is not with man/him, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.
No scripture asserts that the law was abolished, madevoid, you piece of dung, as over10 verses were given to you, that asserts just the opposite, BUT YOU DELETED THEM, demon.
Pate: Delivered from=DESTROYED/MADE VOID/ABOLISHED
=satanic interpretation, butchering, corrupting the meaning of biblical words.
Irrelevant to your "argument" that the law of God vanished, and your on record argument that the Saviour did not die for our sin debt.
Pate:If the laws of foreign countries exist, US citizens are under their jurisdiction, and judged as guilty, so they must be destroyed.
Pate: This "Jesus" did not solve the sin issue by becoming a curse for us, being judged in our place. NO!!!!!!!!!God destroyed the law, so that there would be NO CURSE, NO SIN DEBT, for which to die!!!
YOU VILE PERVETER of the gospel of Christ-on record.
Pate/the devil revises 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV,
From: Christ died for our sins...
To:Christ died to destroy the law, so that their is no offence, transgression/sin debt, from which He needs to die for...
And revises Romans 4:25 KJV
From: Who was delivered for our offences, ...
To: Who was delivered to destroy the law, so that their is no offence, transgression/sin debt, from which He needs to die for, be delivered, as there is no offence, as sin is not imputed when the law is abolished, as there is no sin debt.
....and perverting/corrupting Paul's teaching/point.
Devil child Pate asserts, on record, that the Saviour did not die for our sin debt/IOU, paying our debt, in our place, as the solution, and, instead, asserts, on record, that this "Jesus" is an incompetent, impotent fool,UNABLE TO DIE FOR ALL OF OUR SINS, future sins, as is God the Father, for even sending Him to die, as devil child Pate's "solution" to the sin/sins problem, is to eliminate the law that defines the sin/transgression, thus, "presto," there is no offense/transgression/sin for which to die, instead of the Saviour dying for our future sin debt. Do you all "get that," TOL audience? That, in simple terms, is this satanist "argument," breaking it down. Again, Pate asserts that the solution to the sin/sins issue, is not that the Saviour died for our sin debt in the future, which is contrary to us, for breaking the LORD God's perfect,good, holy,just, spiritual law, and a reflection of His character to both the saved and lost, and not that we are the problem, but the problem is with the law, as it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not spiritual, as laws against murder, rape, lying, stealing......are all contrary to us, so, instead of the Saviour dying in our place, to satisfy the debt/IOU, abolish the law, so that there is no offense/transgression/sin for which He should die, and thus abolish the Saviour's work, as Pate asserts that the Saviour DID NOT DIE FOR OUR FUTURE SINS, SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DIE, for our future sins/sin debt. Thus, Pate asserts he died in vain, for nothing, as his "solution" is to abolish/eliminate/destroy/make void the law, so that there is no future sin/transgression/offense, and associated/corresponding wage/sin debt to be paid for. Again-Pate-Christ died in vain.
Mayor STP:"It's not that complicated."
Pate argues that the solution to the sins issue, is not Christ dying for our sins, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, to blot out/wipe out/pay for the sin debt, both past/future, "man's IOU" for breaking the good, holy, spiritual law of God, per Paul, in Romans 7, which Paul asserts is not void, as the problem is not with man, but with the God's law, as he asserts that it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not just, it is not spiritual, as it is the law, that is contrary/against us, according to Pate, those troublesome prohibitions against murder, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery, lying......and not the sin debt/IOU that is contrary to/against us; Again, Pate denies that the sin debt/IOU is contrary/ against us, as He asserts that God's laws against murder, lying, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery,......................................are contrary/against us, are not for our benefit, are not good, not holy, not spiritual; His "solution" is for the LORD God to destroy/abolish/make void the law, so there is no offense to break, in the future, not Christ dying for our sins, He paying the debt/IOU for us, in our place.
Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that Christ died in vain, there was no reason to die, as He did not need to die to pay our IOU/sin debt, as all the LORD God had to do, was destroy/abolish/make void/eliminate the law, so there would not be a sin debt/IOU. Thus, he then,like the devil attempts to ...
Delete "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is perfect, good, holy, just, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.
Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not prefect/good/holy/spiritual,as he asserts that it causes us to sin, as it is sin, and the problem is not with man/him, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.
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He once again, satanically, adds (law) to the bible, as he will be sent to hell.
Pate:If the laws of foreign countries exist, US citizens are under their jurisdiction, and judged as guilty, so they must be destroyed.
Pate: This "Jesus" did not solve the sin issue by becoming a curse for us, being judged in our place. NO!!!!!!!!!God destroyed the law, so that there would be NO CURSE, NO SIN DEBT, for which to die!!!
=satanic, drunken, demonic false dichotomy, that his daddy the devil tells him to keep spamming.
Pate: If the law exists, you are judged as guilty, automatically. Thus, his solution. Eliminate the law, so that there is no offence/transgression/sin.Thus, he rejects that Christ died for HIS SIN DEBT-He PROPOSES THAT HE DIED TO ELIMINATE THE LAW, SO THAT THERE IS NO SIN DEBT/OFFENCE TO PAY FOR.
Simple.
Pate: Eliminate the local laws!!!! To be under them, is condemnation!!! If there is a law against murder, rape, stealing, breaking the speed limit.................................I AM JUDGED AS GUILTY, AND NEED TO PAY THE DEBT!!!!!ELIMINATE THE LAW, SO THAT THERE CAN BE NO DEBT!!!!
Thus, he rejects, as the solution, to the sin problem, that Christ died for His sin debt; His "solution" is to eliminate the law, so that there is no sin debt, to be paid.
You are a wicked perverter of the gospel of Christ, flipping the bird at the Saviour, asserting that there is no sin debt, for which to die, AS THEIR IS NO LAW, THAT DEFINES THE SIN/OFFENCE/TRANSGRESSION.
Be gone, demon.
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