The US wouldn't be in such a mess if it were Christian

[aCultureWarrior]

I

This, specifically, is why I'd rather see some joint effort at ethics we all share, and values we all share, rather than nothing at all.

Tell us about the "ethics and values" that you as a Christian and atheists like Caldevich (with an 'i") share Lon. (Cal agrees, as long as they're predominately his ethics and values that you're talking about).

 

[Lon]

Tell us about the "ethics and values" that you as a Christian and atheists like Caldevich (with an 'i") share Lon.

6 of the ten commandments (yup, want those back up on the wall).

Gandhi had a few good quotes. I'm not sure if an atheist has something worth hanging on the wall, but if it agrees with the bible, I'm for it.


..."In God We Trust" We all have that, but is it just money we'll let that be posted on?

I was thinking that teacher that had to remove that, should have just posted a blown-up dollar bill after that :chuckle: (I'm such a rebel, always looking for the out)

 

[aCultureWarrior]

6 of the ten commandments (yup, want those back up on the wall).

I'm assuming that you're referring to the "thou shalt not's"? (try getting an atheist like Caldevich to agree with you on abortion or normal sexual relations (marriage between a man and woman).

Gandhi had a few good quotes.

Don't use that pagan pervert as a reference to good moral behavior.

Gandhi Reconsidered: When Paganism Met Progressivism
http://www.thenewamerican.com/revie...-reconsidered-when-paganism-met-progressivism

..."In God We Trust" We all have that, but is it just money we'll let that be posted on?

They'd just as soon have His name removed:

Court Rules Against Atheist Who Sought to Remove ‘In God We Trust’ From U.S. Currency
http://christiannews.net/2014/05/29...ing_wp_cron=1419351644.8399031162261962890625

 

[republicanchick]

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. Yes, they quoted the Bible. This does not mean they wanted to establish a Christian nation. Yes, they wanted all religions to be able to practice freely, but again, this doesn't mean they were establishing a Christian nation.

I agree that they were trying to avoid the problems with the state church in England. They did it by setting up a thoroughly secular government, not a Christian one.

this is just so NOT true (the last paragraph)

They did indeed mean to set up a... if not an actual "Christian nation" then one that FOSTERS Christianity.

One of the Founders, John Adams said that

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams is a signer of the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights and our second President.


:grave:

 

[republicanchick]

All that shows is that they themselves were Christian. While they themselves might have been christian and religious, they were smart enough to realize that the only way to ensure that they can worship as they please was to allow all to do so, thus not endorse any specific religion or denomination. Also, Google Treaty of Tripoly for more information.

no person in a civilized society can do as he pleases.

If he pleases to kill, say, the unborn, it is the obligation of the authorities and all moral persons to say NO to that

 

[republicanchick]

There is no fear of God in the US.

Yeah, to many PAGAN Catholickers.

That is why we have so many Tornadoes and Droughts and diseases.

We were once blessed and now its has turned into a Curse like the Smitah years.

when all the Towers and Markets Crashed in 2001, 2008, 2015.

this is just too absurd to comment on


:grave::wave2:

 

[republicanchick]

"Republicanchick" is expressing nostalgia for a period in American history that never existed!

George Washington: - never declared himself a Christian according to contemporary reports or in any of his extensive personal correspondence
- championed the cause of freedom from religious intolerance and compulsion.
- appointed John Murray (a universalist who denied the existence of hell) to become an army chaplain despite petitions from other chaplains for his dismissal
- on his deathbed, Washington uttered no words of a religious nature and did not call for a clergyman to be in attendance.

John Adams: - "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!"

Thomas Jefferson: - "Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."
- "I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."

James Madison: -"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."

Benjamin Franklin: - "I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies."

Thomas Paine: "All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

The Treaty of Tripoli: - passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797
- read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."

Abraham Lincoln: - "The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."

I don't believe you on some of those quotes. And as we have seen throughout history, throughout RECENT current events in particular, liberals are never above LYING

also, if they can't get away w/ lying, they distort truth

distort truth enough and it is a bald face lie



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[republicanchick]

http://www.free2pray.info/5founderquotes.html


At this cite we see all the Christian quotes by the U.S. Founders


so take your lying nonsense outa here, Mr Atheist who thinks everyone is better off without God and his commandments (and yet is himself proof that is not so)



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[Rusha]

No one can force you to believe in God or accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior Sandy (Christianity isn't about that).

HOWEVER, a nation that embraces God's Word can make sure that pagans like you and anna and your atheist ally Caldewvich (with an "i") don't have a say in it's legislation or culture, because we've seen what happens when you do:

We've turned into a real moral cesspool of a country.

Your opinion has been duly noted and disregarded as all other *selective* morality like it. Unfortunately for you, there is no chance we will be stepping back into the Dark Ages ... ever.

 

[zoo22]

I don't believe you on some of those quotes. And as we have seen throughout history, throughout RECENT current events in particular, liberals are never above LYING

also, if they can't get away w/ lying, they distort truth

distort truth enough and it is a bald face lie



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You sure accuse other people of lying a lot. But I remember you you straight-up lying here at TOL and never 'fessing up to it:

TSF, you'd told us that you "stay clear of those of other races." Your sentiments here just don't seem to match up all that well.

what a lie..
but then... not surrpised

A lie? Where?

If you call someone a liar you ought to be able to back it up.

Did you say you "stay clear of those of other races..." or not?

no

That was you lying. Right?

 

[republicanchick]

Quote mining aside, there are many of these same Presidents that expressed Christian ideals as well. Some of these are quote mined very much out of context, so are dishonest.

You can Google any one of these men's religious views rather easily.

For instance: George Washington was not only a member of his church, he was also a councilman and asked soldiers to fast and pray to God on a day Congress laid out for it. See here His stately letter to Indians regarding their instruction: "You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. Congress will do every thing they can to assist you in this wise intention; and to tie the knot of friendship and union so fast, that nothing shall ever be able to loose it."

John Adams' quotes including the treaty of Tripoli were written to appease Muslims who were attacking American ships and history recognizes it as a weakness, a caving-in, to pirates. To redress this as a quote-mine, is inept at best, and dubious by moderation, in attempts by atheists.

I can go on and on, but quote mining the Presidents by atheists has always been an exercise in lying, most often of purpose, which makes it truly evil. It is sad that anyone would feel the need for this kind of unethical platform. I suppose it is politics, but we try not to vote for the ones that are so obvious about it. I'm not sure if you are doing this on purpose or ignorance, I just lift it up in the proper light it deserves.

well said

except that maybe a little more emphasis needs to be placed on the tendency to LIE of liberals/some atheists.

The end justifies the means, according to them

They will do ANYTHING to destroy Christianity


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[MarcATL]

Jesus says His followers are not of the world. People who claim to be a Christian yet get involved with politics don't know their own faith.

The reality is that most so called true and saved Christians are deeply involved with the politics.

True Christians ought to stay out of politics.

Politics are not of Jesus.

This is the long and short of it.

The minute you see a church, denomination or preacher preaching politics from the pulpit that's the minute you realize and see a congregation DEEPLY ensconced in apostasy.

I'm working on getting unconcerned with politics myself, as I know it's not of God. Keep me in your prayers sister.

 

[Tinark]

You haven't been watching the news lately? We've NEVER had school shooting before the ten commandments came off of school walls. That's 200 years of it never happening. Of course media never used to 'glorify' it either. They are as sick as those who went to the gladiator fights. I'm really looking forward one day to a network that refuses to report this so-called 'news' that glorifies the shooter. If we were humane, we'd just report that someone was killed and to pray for their families, without a lot of detail.

What are you talking about? Take a look a this list - they have been happening all throughout US history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States

Second, you are just flat out wrong: mass shootings are _not_ on the rise. Just revealing the random thoughts in your head is not evidence:

It's clear that there is no major upward trend. And slicing the data differently doesn't make a difference — Fox said that since homicides are on the downswing in general, the overall shape of the graph wouldn't change much if you changed the definition of a mass shooting to, say, three victims or more. There isn't even any upswing in the number of school shooting victims, at least based on the Department of Education's own official statistics (PDF).

http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2014/06/mass-shootings-arent-on-the-rise.html

Additionally, how do you explain the _far_ fewer school shootings in far less religious Europe with no 10 commandments? Finally, why are school shootings, an event which maybe victimizes ~.00001% of the population per year, relevant to be used as a sign of the country being in a "mess"?

Just another example of the way right wing Christians are completely wrong about the world, as they so frequently are.

 

[shagster01]

You sure accuse other people of lying a lot. But I remember you you straight-up lying here at TOL and never 'fessing up to it:



That was you lying. Right?

I had a similar situation with her too, but I'm having trouble finding it because I can't remember what one of her many user names she was using at the time. . .

 

[jgarden]

I don't believe you on some of those quotes. And as we have seen throughout history, throughout RECENT current events in particular, liberals are never above LYING

also, if they can't get away w/ lying, they distort truth

distort truth enough and it is a bald face lie

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Typical conservative response - if you can't accept the truth, "shoot the messanger!"

 

[Town Heretic]

The US is supposed to be a Christian nation.

A common misconception, especially among people without a background in civics or their nation's history. Rather, we've always been a nation comprised mostly of Christians. The state was never meant to serve Christianity or any particular religion, except by protecting it from government intrusion and direction.

and most of its residents don't really wanna be. There is no fear of God in the US. That's b/c most people adhre to the heretic Luther's diabolical notion of eternal security, otherwise known as Once Saved Always saved.

Ah, an ecumenical thread then.

Where does it say that in the Bible?

A few places. Are you interested or just making chit-chat?

God hates sin, we are told in the Good Book.

And Christ died to save the sinner from his merit. Just so.

I thnk it is in Jeremiah where it says that the human heart is "deceitful above all, and desperately wicked"

The heart wants what it wants but rarely wants what it needs. But of course the whole heart/head metaphor is really distinguishing between the will in contemplation and the desire without regard for it.

The head says Fornication is probably not a good idea

Depends on the head and how much thought goes into and out of it.

The heart says But if we love each other

That's actually the head pretending.

but thank God for the Church Christ founded

"I will build My Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it"

Rather, thank God for the cross and the unmerited salvation that saved a thief who was without a church at all and each of us who love and rely upon that cross and Christ since, regardless of where we gather.

 

[dreadknought]

The US is supposed to be a Christian nation.

:rotfl:

It's just a wanna be

and most of its residents don't really wanna be. There is no fear of God in the US. That's b/c most people adhre to the heretic Luther's diabolical notion of eternal security, otherwise known as Once Saved Always saved. Where does it say that in the Bible?

But it does say quite a bit about t he fear of God, quite a bit about eternal punishment resulting from egregious sin. See: Old Testament acccount of Sodom and Gomorrah

God hates sin, we are told in the Good Book. But people just keep sinning. In a way, they can't help it. I used to be liberal, not in my head, but in my messed up heart. I have almost always been Republican, but... oh, t hat messed up heart

I thnk it is in Jeremiah where it says that the human heart is "deceitful above all, and desperately wicked"

The head says Fornication is probably not a good idea

The heart says But if we love each other

And so chaos and misery ensues, and innocent lives are brought into the horrible picture and more sins are committed and we just all end up in Hell...

but thank God for the Church Christ founded

"I will build My Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it"

(Mt 16:18)


:sheep:

tag against sheep.

 

[republicanchick]

This is the long and short of it.

The minute you see a church, denomination or preacher preaching politics from the pulpit that's the minute you realize and see a congregation DEEPLY ensconced in apostasy.

I'm working on getting unconcerned with politics myself, as I know it's not of God. Keep me in your prayers sister.

how utterly ABSURD!

if we refuse to get involved w/ "politics" the wolrd will (has already) go to Hell

 

[republicanchick]

just think if America got rid of legalized abortion!

The other countries would feel obliged to follow... or at least u would think so. And whether they acted on such feeling or not is another issue

But anyway, if we got rid of baby killing, maybe other things would naturally fall into place

legalized abortion sends the message to all of society that human life is... (for the very young now, but in the future...)

trash

garbage

Wow... what a message... and all of us seem to be absorbing by osmosis that hideous message.

You can see it on the forums.. People often rip ea other up verbally like the babies in the womb are being ripped up physically

God help us

Merry Christmas



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[republicanchick]

A common misconception, especially among people without a background in civics or their nation's history. Rather, we've always been a nation comprised mostly of Christians. The state was never meant to serve Christianity or any particular religion, except by protecting it from government intrusion and direction.

when did I say otherwise?

don't read into my words things that are not there


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