The Two Resurrections

[Right Divider]

According to the scriptures offered here those reigning with Christ in His millennial kingdom will be those who paid with their life for their faith, or, made it through the great tribulation without bending a knee to Satan (You know the litany; mark, number, name). Not only do I not find this offer limited to the Jews anywhere here,

You assume that it includes all. But you ignore many things (including just about everything that I say).

to the contrary, I find this:

Rev 5:

6And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

7And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

8And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

9And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Again, your are simply believing that you want to believe. Nobody but Israel does God call His priests.

Exod 19:6 (AKJV/PCE)​

(19:6) And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. ​

That is what Peter quotes here:

1Pet 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:9) But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:​

Just because these people come OUT of every nation does not mean that they are not Israelites. Israel has been scattered out of Israel into every nation on earth for a very long time.

You can see this concept in many places when God talks about gathering the nation of Israel from the nations:

Isa 11:12 (AKJV/PCE)​

(11:12) And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.​

​

Ezek 11:16-17 (AKJV/PCE)​

(11:16) Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Although I have cast them far off among the heathen, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet will I be to them as a little sanctuary in the countries where they shall come. (11:17) Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel. ​

​

Joel 3:2 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:2) I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and [for] my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.​

 

[Right Divider]

Is Christ not your king as well?

The Lord Jesus Christ is my HEAD, as I am part of His BODY.

The King of the Jews is.... the King of the Jews (i.e., Israel).

P.S. And of course He is also the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

 

[fzappa13]

The Lord Jesus Christ is my HEAD, as I am part of His BODY.

The King of the Jews is.... the King of the Jews (i.e., Israel).

P.S. And of course He is also the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Although I'm tempted to succumb to your third attempt to derail this thread I'm going to decline the invitation. If you have any genuine interest in discussing your latest offering please, by all means, start a thread. In the mean time I am going to attempt to finish this one.

 

[Right Divider]

Although I'm tempted to succumb to your third attempt to derail this thread I'm going to decline the invitation. If you have any genuine interest in discussing your latest offering please, by all means, start at thread. In the mean time I am going to attempt to finish this one.

It appears that you just want this thread to be a cheering section for everyone to pat you on the back.

Enjoy your glory.

 

[Gary K]

Is Christ not your king as well?

To be our king He also has to be lord of our life and we have to follow Him and no one else.

 

[fzappa13]

To be our king He also has to be lord of our life and we have to follow Him and no one else ...

...except Martin Luther, what ever Pope, Jim Jones, The Bob, John Nelson Darby, Hellen White, Charles Taze Russel, David Koresh, Ellen White etc., etc., etc,.

At what point are we going to stop accepting substitutes?

 

[Gary K]

...except Martin Luther, what ever Pope, Jim Jones, The Bob, John Nelson Darby, Hellen White, Charles Taze Russel, David Koresh, Ellen White etc., etc., etc,.

At what point are we going to stop accepting substitutes?

I agree with everyone on that list except for Ellen White. I have studied the Bible extensively for decades and read her writings for decades and have never found her to not agree with scripture.

 

[JudgeRightly]

According to the scriptures offered here those reigning with Christ in His millennial kingdom will be those who paid with their life for their faith, or, made it through the great tribulation without bending a knee to Satan (You know the litany; mark, number, name). Not only do I not find this offer limited to the Jews anywhere here, to the contrary, I find this:

Rev 5:

6And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

7And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

8And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

9And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Gentiles out of every kindred, tongue, people, and nation, had always been able to enter into covenant relationship with God.... THROUGH ISRAEL.

This is currently not the case, but it will be again during the Great Tribulation.

What Paul preached was a direct relationship with God, without having to partake of the covenant Israel had with Him.

Things that differ...

 

[JudgeRightly]

Is Christ not your king as well?

In the figurative sense, that He is King over all.

But He is the King over an earthly nation that I am not a citizen of, since my citizenship is that of Heaven.

 

[fzappa13]

I agree with everyone on that list except for Ellen White. I have studied the Bible extensively for decades and read her writings for decades and have never found her to not agree with scripture.

That's my point/lament. Most everyone has their exception. All that varies is who it is. One is of Paul, another of Apollos and on and on we go never heeding Paul's admonition. It's like we can't just consume the Bible in it's purity ... we have to have some sort of seasoning/leaven to make it palatable.

 

[fzappa13]

In the figurative sense, that He is King over all.

But He is the King over an earthly nation that I am not a citizen of, since my citizenship is that of Heaven.

Well, He's coming here to rule and reign forever. What are you doing up there? How about we start a thread on the subject?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Well, He's coming here to rule and reign forever.

Cannot Jesus be where He wants to be?

What are you doing up there?

Enjoying Heaven, fellowshipping with the rest of the Body of Christ.

You know, the things you would normally do when you get to heaven...

How about we start a thread on the subject?

Go for it.

 

[fzappa13]

Cannot Jesus be where He wants to be?



Enjoying Heaven, fellowshipping with the rest of the Body of Christ.

You know, the things you would normally do when you get to heaven...



Go for it.

If you will let me finish this one I will.

 

[Gary K]

That's my point/lament. Most everyone has their exception. All that varies is who it is. One is of Paul, another of Apollos and on and on we go never heeding Paul's admonition. It's like we can't just consume the Bible in it's purity ... we have to have some sort of seasoning/leaven to make it palatable.

If a person teaches nothing but scriptural concepts how is that a leavening agent?

 

[fzappa13]

If a person teaches nothing but scriptural concepts how is that a leavening agent?

I have a very VERY precious friend that is SDA. You may rest assured we have been round and round as it concerns the subject of his chosen seasoning. I would prefer not to do that here.

Is there no one here interested in the resurrections? (Hats off to Tam)

 

[Right Divider]

That's my point/lament. Most everyone has their exception. All that varies is who it is. One is of Paul, another of Apollos and on and on we go never heeding Paul's admonition.

Most people don't understand Paul's admonition well at all.

1Cor 1:12 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:12) Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.​

Later in the SAME epistle Paul says this:

1Cor 4:16 (AKJV/PCE)​

(4:16) Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.​

​

Here is a good explanation of the problem: https://graceambassadors.com/mystery/paul/the-dangerous-sect-of-christ-in-corinth

It's like we can't just consume the Bible in it's purity ... we have to have some sort of seasoning/leaven to make it palatable.

That's rich irony right there. Were you not offended when I mentioned the true meaning of the scripture?

You are one that will not take the Bible "in its purity". Otherwise, you wouldn't have problems with me pointing out the context of the books.

 

[fzappa13]

That's rich irony right there. Were you not offended when I mentioned the true meaning of the scripture?

I think the term "offended" might be a little wide of the mark. "Amused" would be a little closer. Given that the Apostle to the Gentiles said we know NOTHING now as we should one would think his followers would be a little more reticent as it concerns being the arbiters of all scriptural truth. In the words of Mr. Pope, "Hope springs eternal in the human breast."

... which likely explains my continued presence here.

 

[Right Divider]

I think the term "offended" might be a little wide of the mark. "Amused" would be a little closer.

You are "amused" by the idea of the "true meaning" of the scripture?
And yet you muse on about consuming the "Bible in its purity"?
You are either totally confused or you're a big time hypocrite (or both).

Given that the Apostle to the Gentiles said we know NOTHING now as we should one would think his followers would be a little more reticent as it concerns being the arbiters of all scriptural truth.

Please QUOTE the scripture that you're attempting to abuse. Then we can discuss it.
Also, please QUOTE me saying that I'm "the arbiter of all scriptural truth".

In the words of Mr. Pope, "Hope springs eternal in the human breast."

... which likely explains my continued presence here.

Dear Mr. Hypocrite, in this thread, you've been explaining what YOU think that the scripture means. Yet, you complain when others do the same.

Your blindness is stunning!

 

[fzappa13]

Returning to Rev 20 we move past the thousand year reign of Christ and His 1st resurrection saints to what has become known as the white throne judgement.

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Here we see two sets of books consulted in this judgement; "the books" and "the book of life." Both are mentioned elswhere in both the Old and New Testaments. Here are a few offerings to flesh that thought out.

THE BOOK OF LIFE

Ex 32:
30And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.
31And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.
32Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
33And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Psa 69:
21They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink. ...
28Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

Phil 4:
3And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

There are several more mentions of the book of life in Revelation but I won't offer them here for the sake of brevity.

THE BOOKS

To this point the only other reference I have found to the plural term "the books" is in Daniel.

Dan 7:
9I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

Rev 20 is the only place I can find where "the book of life" and "the books" are both mentioned and differentiated. The difference between the two is not delineated in Rev 20 but, it is obvious from what is offered there that our deeds are recorded in one or both and this has some bearing on our eventual fate.

It is for this reason that I hastened to agree with Tam's notion that the first is the preeminent resurrection in that, if you want to be assured of your fate, that's the one you want. The problem is that few are anxious to pay the price for the ticket into that one and an unfortunate number of said folks have embraced a much more pain free way to be resurrected as a doctrinal preference than that proffered by the Bible as a result.
Though not relevant to the subject of this thread I can't leave Rev 20 without noting that here was the first place I encountered the notion that Hell and The Lake of Fire were two different things as the former is here cast into the latter.

The subject of another thread I suspect.

 

[Right Divider]

Returning to Rev 20 we move past the thousand year reign of Christ and His 1st resurrection saints to what has become known as the white throne judgement.

The book of Revelation is all about the restoration of Israel.
The millennial kingdom is the kingdom of Israel with Christ reigning as king.
The "kingdom of priests" that will evangelize the gentiles nations are the believing remnant of Israel.

No member of the Body of Christ will be at the great white throne judgment. Do you think that you'll be there?