The Trinity

[MichaelCadry]

The trinity doctrine says they are distinct/different.

However, the Bible shows us that they are the exact same.

Dear God's Truth,

You just don't get it, eh? Yes, they are the same in Spirit. But yes, they are different, as God would have us know them. The Son is distinct in the fact that He makes a difference saying that He prays to the Father. The Son differentiates Himself by telling His eleven disciples to baptize others in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Read Matthew 28:19KJV. Believe whatever floats your boat. You're going to anyway. Find out when you ask God and Jesus in Heaven. They are separate, even though they are ONE in Spirit. I give up on you trying to understand.

How about this? They are like 3 glasses of water, the same in substance, but they are still different. The water/Spirit is in each of the glasses, making them the same/One, and yet Three! Does that do it for you?

May God Show You Clarity,

Michael

 

[glorydaz]

The only reason I clarify is for the sake of consistency. I have no problem engaging in a forum on a gender-neutral basis. But since I had previously spoken of my wife and newborn child during previous conversations a gender-neutral persona is no longer appropriate.

Believe whatever delusion you like though.

I don't really care, either way, but your picture looks like a girl and your style of posting is pretty emotional and, dare I say, "catty", so I automatically think of you as a "she". I know people can say whatever they want on the internet, and some never want to admit they are women lest someone tell them to "be silent".

So....it isn't a "delusion" (but a reason) no matter what you might imagine.

 

[RealityJerk]

:rotfl: You just crack me up!
Without light the sun is not a sun.
You cannot separate the light and still call it a sun.
Otherwise, the "true sun", as you call it, would be nothing but a cold dark mass with no light at all.


The Son is not a created angel.
The Son is not created at all, but is the creator of all John 1:3, (along with the Father and the Holy Spirit).

I never implied that the sun, could remain a sun without its light. That's a straw man argument. God can't be a creator, without creating. He can't be a king, without a kingdom. God has always had his word or "son". What I'm saying is that, the heavenly father, is the eternal source of His son, hence the son is a contingent generation or manifestation, even if he is eternal. That's why Jesus identified His heavenly father, as "true God".

True God, in the sense of ultimate source of everything and everyone. The original. According to the NT, there is a heavenly tabernacle, that is identified as the "true tabernacle":

Heb 8:2* A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.*

Joh 17:3* And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.*

That doesn't imply that the earthly one, is a "false tabernacle", it simply means that the heavenly one (the archetype/original blueprint), is the source or origin of the earthly one. The heavenly father, is the eternal source of the son, hence is identified by the son as the "Only True Deity".

Regardless of what the tabernacle in Heb 8:2, actually is, the fact the writer used the term "true tabernacle", is enough to make my point about the meaning of "true" in the above two passages. It doesn't necessarily imply that something similar to it, but different, is false. There's a semblance between the father and the son, but they are not the same. One of their differences, is that the father is the origin, or source of the son.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

John 10:30 KJV
(30) I and my Father are one.


If you would like to check the Greek, you might find out that "are" is 1st person plural.
I and my Father we are one.

And as for the word "one", it is used as a plurality instead of a singularity.
Such as:
Mark 4:8 KJV
(8) And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.


Mark 4:20 KJV
(20) And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.



Ephesians 4:16 KJV
(16) From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.


Ephesians 4:25 KJV
(25) Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.


Acts 4:32 KJV
(32) And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.





Same Greek word used.

God is one person.

heis one is a masculine one, and when conjoined with theos by grammer can only be one person/personage and never is represented by three, theos is one a sole one as a person and not three persons/beings 'one' heis-in the greekthayer- a cardinal numeral; one, where it takes the place of a predicate it means one person.pg 186 a grk lexicon of the n.t. a.t.robertson-one when masculine sets forth the idea of the cardinal numeral 'one' when referring to people or beings always the numeral one is implied.pg 186 vol 5 word pictures of the grk n.t. andpg 526-527 vol 4,pg299 vol4 word pict..n.t. bauer-masculine 'one' a single one pg 230 bauers greek lexicon gingrich- equivalent to protos first, only one; single pg 57 shorter lexiconof grk n.t. now hen -0ne youngs one hen when neuter means one thing, pg 719 youngs anaylyticalconcordance of the bible, thayer one when neuter means to be united,in one will or spirit. pg 186-187ibid a.t.robertson one when neuter shows a unity;a oneness of indentity pg 526vol 4 ibidpg 186 ibid vine- one/hen when neuter may be used to show a numeral one of a thing or it may be used to show unity of more than one or someone or thing. 'heis'(the power of the masculine one) a. t. robertson eph 2:14: verse 14 for he is our peace, who hath made both one...(hen)hath made both one 'one' is neuter. "hen" two peoples become one. unity is understood in light of the neuter one. word pictures of the n.t. vol. 4. page 526 & 527. robertson galatians 3:28;verse 28 there is neither jew nor greek, there is neither male nor female; for ye are all one in christ jesus.'one' is masculine. "heis" no word for man in the greek. yet, man is understood because of masculine 'one' - heis. vincent: "one moral personality" word pictures in the n.t. vol. 4. page 299 'heis'(the power of the masculine one) joseph henry thayer galatians 3:20 & 28;..but god is one..for ye are all one in christ. the word 'one' is masculine; heis thayer: "ye that adhere to christ make one person, just as the lord himself." 'hen' (examples of the neuter God is one person.

heis one is a masculine one, and when conjoined with theos by grammer can only be one person/personage and never is represented by three, theos is one a sole one as a person and not three persons/beings 'one' heis-in the greekthayer- a cardinal numeral; one, where it takes the place of a predicate it means one person.pg 186 a grk lexicon of the n.t. a.t.robertson-one when masculine sets forth the idea of the cardinal numeral 'one' when referring to people or beings always the numeral one is implied.pg 186 vol 5 word pictures of the grk n.t. andpg 526-527 vol 4,pg299 vol4 word pict..n.t. bauer-masculine 'one' a single one pg 230 bauers greek lexicon gingrich- equivalent to protos first, only one; single pg 57 shorter lexiconof grk n.t. now hen -0ne youngs one hen when neuter means one thing, pg 719 youngs anaylyticalconcordance of the bible, thayer one when neuter means to be united,in one will or spirit. pg 186-187ibid a.t.robertson one when neuter shows a unity;a oneness of indentity pg 526vol 4 ibidpg 186 ibid vine- one/hen when neuter may be used to show a numeral one of a thing or it may be used to show unity of more than one or someone or thing. 'heis'(the power of the masculine one) a. t. robertson eph 2:14: verse 14 for he is our peace, who hath made both one...(hen)hath made both one 'one' is neuter. "hen" two peoples become one. unity is understood in light of the neuter one. word pictures of the n.t. vol. 4. page 526 & 527. robertson galatians 3:28;verse 28 there is neither jew nor greek, there is neither male nor female; for ye are all one in christ jesus.'one' is masculine. "heis" no word for man in the greek. yet, man is understood because of masculine 'one' - heis. vincent: "one moral personality" word pictures in the n.t. vol. 4. page 299 'heis'(the power of the masculine one) joseph henry thayer galatians 3:20 & 28;..but god is one..for ye are all one in christ. the word 'one' is masculine; heis thayer: "ye that adhere to christ make one person, just as the lord himself." 'hen' (examples of the neuter continued--

 

[Lazy afternoon]

that oneness. thsu, eleven (11) times the n.t. speaks of god as one person.
8. the above facts might be contested, but they cannot be disputed. in plain simple greek, god conveys to the world that he is one, and the evidence is overwhelming that the word chosen by him to assert his unity means "one person" or "one single being"
the big eleven(heis)a. each time the gk. n.t. uses the word 'one' in reference to god it employs the numeral "heis" b. the gk. numeral "heis" declares god to be one person.
1. mk. 2:7 why doth this man thus speak? he blashemeth; who can forgive sins but one (heis) even god? asv
2. mk, 10:18 and jesus said unto him, why callest thou me good? there is none good but one (heis) that is god.
3. mk. 12:29 and jesus answered him, the first of all the commandments is,hear, o israel; the lord our god is one (heis) lord.
4. lk. 18:19 and jesus said unto him, why callest thou me good? none is good,save one (heis), that is, god.
5. rom. 3:30 seeing it is one (heis) god, which shall justify the circumsion through faith.
6. icor. 8:4 concerning therefore the eating of things sacrificied to idols,we know that no idol is anything in the world, and that there is no god but one asv.
7. icor. 8:6 but to us there is but one (heis) god, the father, of whom are all things, and we in him.
8. gal. 3:20 now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but god is one (heis)

 

[Lazy afternoon]

that oneness. thsu, eleven (11) times the n.t. speaks of god as one person.
8. the above facts might be contested, but they cannot be disputed. in plain simple greek, god conveys to the world that he is one, and the evidence is overwhelming that the word chosen by him to assert his unity means "one person" or "one single being"
the big eleven(heis)a. each time the gk. n.t. uses the word 'one' in reference to god it employs the numeral "heis" b. the gk. numeral "heis" declares god to be one person.
1. mk. 2:7 why doth this man thus speak? he blashemeth; who can forgive sins but one (heis) even god? asv
2. mk, 10:18 and jesus said unto him, why callest thou me good? there is none good but one (heis) that is god.
3. mk. 12:29 and jesus answered him, the first of all the commandments is,hear, o israel; the lord our god is one (heis) lord.
4. lk. 18:19 and jesus said unto him, why callest thou me good? none is good,save one (heis), that is, god.
5. rom. 3:30 seeing it is one (heis) god, which shall justify the circumsion through faith.
6. icor. 8:4 concerning therefore the eating of things sacrificied to idols,we know that no idol is anything in the world, and that there is no god but one asv.
7. icor. 8:6 but to us there is but one (heis) god, the father, of whom are all things, and we in him.
8. gal. 3:20 now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but god is one (heis)
9. eph, 4:6 one (heis) god and father of all, who is above all, and through all and in you all.
10. i tim, 2:5 for there is one (heis) god, and one mediator between god and men, the man christ jesus.
11. james 2:19 thou believest that there is one (heis) god; thou doest well;the devils also believe and tremble. "one god" (the first commandment) mark 12:29 and jesus answered him. the first of all the commandments is. hear o israel;the lord our god is one lord. duet 6:4
fact: the greek word for 'one' in this passage is heis. fact: according to 'bauer's creek lexicon page 230 heis means a single only one.
fact: heis found 93 + times in the n.t. relating to people. never is it used for more than one person. never!
fact: heis is the greek masculine 'one' a.t. robertson, the masuline 'one' implies one person only. (word pictures, vol. 5 page 186) the strength of the masculine one to indicate one person is seen in ga. 3:28 'one god'(galatians 3:20) now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but god is one. i. but god is 'one' a. 'one' is heis - masculine b. 'one' takes the place of the predicate in this clause. conclusion: c. god is 'one' person. see; thayer page 186 a greek english lexicon of then.t. 'one god'(galatians 3:20) i. scholars comment on gal, 3:20,. a. kenneth s. wuest, wuest's word studies from the greek n.t. vol. 1, page106 "the word 'one' is masuline in gender, and therefore is personal, referring to a person." op. cit. page 107 'now, the mediator is not (a go-between representing the interests) of one (indivual), but god is one (indivual)." b. bratcher: "but a go-between is not needed when there is only one person; and god is one." c. the amplified bible:"now a go-between (intermediary) has to do with and implies more than one party - there can be no mediator with just one person, yet god is (only) one person."


LA

 

[God's Truth]

Dear God's Truth,

You just don't get it, eh? Yes, they are the same in Spirit. But yes, they are different, as God would have us know them. The Son is distinct in the fact that He makes a difference saying that He prays to the Father. The Son differentiates Himself by telling His eleven disciples to baptize others in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Read Matthew 28:19KJV. Believe whatever floats your boat. You're going to anyway. Find out when you ask God and Jesus in Heaven. They are separate, even though they are ONE in Spirit. I give up on you trying to understand.

How about this? They are like 3 glasses of water, the same in substance, but they are still different. The water/Spirit is in each of the glasses, making them the same/One, and yet Three! Does that do it for you?

May God Show You Clarity,

Michael

You are wrong, Michael.

 

[God's Truth]

Can't be.
As the Lord Jesus Christ is said to be the ONLY begotten of GOD. John 1:14, John 1:18, John 3:16, John 3:18, 1 John 4:9.


So, even if you were to view the Son as being created, you certainly couldn't say He was the only created one.
So, no, "begotten" does not mean "created".

The scriptures show us that Jesus' body is created, his body before coming to earth, the body on earth, and the body after ascension.

 

[God's Truth]

Reading the scriptures is important, but without the Spirit we will have no understanding.

So it's not studying for many years that's important, it's reading them with an honest heart, a heart that loves God, a heart that the Spirit can work on and through.

We can study the scriptures for 50 years and know nothing, God will only give Revelation to those who truly love him, those who put him first before themselves and are willing to become a living sacrifice and lay their lives down for God, Christ and others, those willing to become last. Those who are willing to live by his will. And once we are willing to do this and turn from sin to do so. Then God will bless us with progressive revelation through Christ by the Spirit and help us to overcome. And the first revelation we receive is that Jesus is the Christ the son of living God, and this revelation is the rock that Christ builds his church upon.

You don't even know that Jesus is God, even after being shown scripture that says so plainly that Jesus is God. Stubborn and rebellious hearts need conformity.

 

[God's Truth]

What?! Baby?

Congratulations.

May GOD Guide it(your baby) towards His will, even moreso than He does and will do to you.

peace

You still are trying to be gender neutral. May you guide yourself towards His will and stop preaching falseness about an 'It'.

There are many people trying to be gender neutral.
With your false beliefs about God being an 'It', you make those gender neutral people the most blessed as they try to be like God the It.

 

[popsthebuilder]

It is about the ONLY begotten Son.

All that is created.
Therefore, the Son cannot be created if all things created were created by Him.

John 1:3 KJV
(3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.




"Begotten" does not mean "created".
Peace.

Dictionary

begotten×

be·got·ten

biˈɡätn/

past participle of*beget.

be·get

bəˈɡet/

verb

literary

past participle:*begotten

1.

(typically of a man, sometimes of a man and a woman) bring (a child) into existence by the process of reproduction.

"they hoped that the King might beget an heir by his new queen"

synonyms:father,*sire,*have,*bring into the world,*give life to,*bring into being,*spawn

"he begat a son"

2.

give rise to; bring about.

"success begets further success"

synonyms:cause,*give rise to,*lead to,*result in,*bring about,*create,*produce,*generate,*engender,*spawn,*occasion,*bring on,*precipitate,*prompt,*provoke,*kindle,*trigger,*spark off,*touch off,*stir up,*whip up,*induce,*inspire,*promote;

literaryenkindle

"violence begets violence"

 

[God's Truth]

Gods plan wasn't that Jesus should come and be crucified, God's plan was that Jesus should come and bare witness to the truth and preach the gospel and save as many as he could through faith by the grace of God.

But God foreknew what Satan through wicked men would do to Jesus, and he knew that Satan would have Jesus murdered. And he foretold it through the prophets, even Jesus himself spoke about it in the parable of the wicked husbandmen.. And Jesus fulfilled those prophesies thus showing he was the Messiah that had been prophesied as coming. And Jesus was willing for it and to bare his cross unto death, and endure the suffering and persecution in he life, in the hope that he could save as many as possible who would believe on him and in the word of God and bring us a new and living way.

As for questions 2 and 3 God was in Christ Jesus, Jesus was in the fullness of God bodily, he was in the express image of the living God. And Jesus didn't come to blast anyone, he wanted us to believe that he is the son of God, the Messiah sent from the father to preach the gospel and bare witness to the truth. We are to believe in Christ through freewill, God doesn't want robots he wants us to truly love him from our hearts, and Jesus came and showed us the way. He is the way, the truth and the life.

And I don't agree with A,B or C



.

You are an untruthful person saying God did not mean for Jesus to be crucified.

According to your evil beliefs God's plan failed.

 

[God's Truth]

So you prove my point for me now?

Thank you.

Do you still mind if I, at times use "IT" to refer to the Spirit of GOD. I don't declare that you must, or that what you refer to GOD as is between you and some other man or woman.

You know I disproved your point.

You know that Moses, Jesus, and Paul are men, males, and not 'its'.

You want to twist it like I proved your point. May it bother you so much that you come to repentance.

 

[God's Truth]

OK. On to different topic.

How can you ever call discussing God such a thing?

 

[God's Truth]

You know I believe Abraham was without fault and had such a faith that he was given the title "friend of GOD". So me saying that he lied to his son, is not me saying he did wrong in the sight of GOD, but that the partial sight of man is never all encompassing.

Surely there is some other issue with some relevance that we can discuss.

peace

You go against people who claim they are made perfect and holy, even though their very state of times of repenting pleases God.

 

[popsthebuilder]

You still are trying to be gender neutral. May you guide yourself towards His will and stop preaching falseness about an 'It'.

There are many people trying to be gender neutral.
With your false beliefs about God being an 'It', you make those gender neutral people the most blessed as they try to be like God the It.

Read about eunuchs in the bible.

Though I can no longer find the resource.

Elohe or Eloha are feminine connotations for the same GOD Elohim.

I studied it a couple years ago and it was verified that Eloha was indeed feminine, but as I said, I can no longer find the resourse.

So are you accusing me of leading people astray because I don't limit the capacities of the One Creator GOD to those of a male person.

Can we change the subject?

Why did you choose to comment about this topic as a response to me congratulating someone?

I would really like to change the subject.

 

[God's Truth]

I think it does. If someone has casually read a few hate-pages on the web over the last few weeks, that holds less weight than if this is a subject they've studied off and on through various sources over the last few years. There's also the opportunity to gain insight into perspective. Someone who has studied the bible in seminary and then burnt out and against Christianity in general will have a different perspective than someone who has done self-study and remains Christian in spite of what they might perceive as church abuses.

It's a fair question and it opens the door to further insight. You don't always know what details will be important so it helps to talk.

I doesn't matter how long a person studied. What matters is the person who Jesus revealed his truth to.

Jesus reveals his truth to those who do what God says to do. John 7:17 and John 14:21.

 

[popsthebuilder]

You know I disproved your point.

You know that Moses, Jesus, and Paul are men, males, and not 'its'.

You want to twist it like I proved you point. May it bother you so much that you come to repentance.

lamb

lam/

noun

noun:*lamb; plural noun:*lambs

1.

a young sheep.

the flesh of young sheep as food.

used figuratively as a symbol of meekness, gentleness, or innocence.

"to her amazement, he accepted her decision like a lamb"

used to describe or address someone regarded with affection or pity, especially a young child.

"the poor lamb is very upset"

short for*Lamb of God.



(no gender, but child like)

 

[popsthebuilder]

You go against people who claim they are made perfect and holy, even though their very state of times of repenting pleases God.

What?

Who did I go against for being made perfect?

I may have gone against someone for proclaiming perfection because to do so is a most obvious sign that they are corrupt.

 

[marhig]

You don't even know that Jesus is God, even after being shown scripture that says so plainly that Jesus is God. Stubborn and rebellious hearts need conformity.

Then you should look at yourself, because I have shown you plenty of scriptures that show that Jesus isn't the father and that God is his God.