The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

Bright Raven

Bright Raven

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beloved57 said:
Scripture teaches that Jesus death was only for a particular people, and here are some scriptures that support it, Isa 53:8

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Stricken refers to His death, and it was for Gods People, that is His Elect or Chosen He was stricken. See Matt 1:21.

Another couple of scriptures that indicates a Limited or particulate Atonement are Jn 10:11,15

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Also Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

This also shows that He layed down His Life for His Wife, The Lambs Wife Rev 21:9

And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

The same Lamb spoken of in Jn 1:29 !

Remember John spoke of Jesus as the Bridegroom Jn 3:29

He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

The same Voice is that of the Shepherd of the Sheep which hear His Voice Jn 10:3-4

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.


The Shepherd and the Bridegroom are the same, and the Bride and the Sheep are the same !
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I believe John 3:16. You don't, for you do not believe that man can be saved when he realizes his sin and repents. You need to get a firm grasp on the scriptures before you even try to teach.
 
beloved57

beloved57

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Scripture Teaches Limited Atonement !


So in light of the scriptures teaching limited atonement, how do we understand words like all or every as they apply to whom Christ died ? Its very simple, they refer to all or everyone Christ died for of the particular people that He died for. For instance, He particularly died for the Sheep of God Jn 10:11,15

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

So He died for all or everyone of His Sheep !

Heb 2:9

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Every man here is simply every sheep, He tasted death for everyone of His Sheep or all of His Sheep. If we read in Heb 13:20 , the same book as Heb 2, it states that Jesus was brought from the dead as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

He was brought from the dead the great shepherd of the sheep , simply because He tasted death as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep, every one of them.

Not just Sheep from amongst the jews, but sheep also from amongst the Gentiles also !

What false teachers wilfully neglect, that is to be honest about the word all or every, for instance, the word every in Heb 2:9 is the word pas and means:

II.collectively

A.some of all types

Just like the word world kosmos means:

VIII.any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort


So all or every is used to define a particular collection of individuals, for instance, the collection of the sheep.

We know all men without exception are not Sheep by Christ own words to some jews Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

So what can be plainer that all men without exception are not Christ's Sheep that He died for !
 
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beloved57

beloved57

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Particular Justification !

Only a Particular People were to be and are Justified by Christ's Blood/Death Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Its Gods Elect that are Justified by Christ dying !

Isa 45:25

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel[Gods elect Rom 8:33] be justified, and shall glory.
 
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Nanja

Nanja

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beloved57 said:
Only a Particular People were to be and are Justified by Christ's Blood/Death Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Its Gods Elect that are Justified by Christ dying !

Isa 45:25

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel[Gods elect Rom 8:33] be justified, and shall glory.
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Because God's Elect were the only People Christ died for Mat. 1:21; Luke 1:68,
they are the only portion of humanity, the Many that were made Righteous / Justified Is. 53:11,
even from Everlasting when, by the Grace given them in their Covenant Head and Surety 2 Tim. 1:9,
their sins were imputed to Christ on their behalf Is. 53:6.

Rom. 5:9-10
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more,
being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

~~~~~
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Nanja said:
Because God's Elect were the only People Christ died for Mat. 1:21; Luke 1:68,
they are the only portion of humanity, the Many that were made Righteous / Justified Is. 53:11,
even from Everlasting when, by the Grace given them in their Covenant Head and Surety 2 Tim. 1:9,
their sins were imputed to Christ on their behalf Is. 53:6.

Rom. 5:9-10
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more,
being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

~~~~~
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Amen Sister!
 
beloved57

beloved57

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Who are the Us here ?

1 Jn 3:16

16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

No doubt the Us here is the same as it is here when its written that He laid down His Life for the Sheep Jn 10:15

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

So the Us in 1 Jn 3:16 is specifically the Sheep of Jn 10:15 !
 
Choleric

Choleric

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beloved57 said:
Who are the Us here ?

1 Jn 3:16

16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

No doubt the Us here is the same as it is here when its written that He laid down His Life for the Sheep Jn 10:15

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

So the Us in 1 Jn 3:16 is specifically the Sheep of Jn 10:15 !
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The same ones as in these verses that are likely covered in white out in your bible:

1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Choleric said:
The same ones as in these verses that are likely covered in white out in your bible:

1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
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Did you read and understand the post you quoted?
 
Choleric

Choleric

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As I am saved, I understood it perfectly. As one in darkness, you missed it. CHrist is the savior of all men. He died not for our sins only, but for the sins of the whole world.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

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Choleric said:
As I am saved, I understood it perfectly. As one in darkness, you missed it. CHrist is the savior of all men. He died not for our sins only, but for the sins of the whole world.
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Since salvation requires a choice to be made by man , you must mean Jesus redeemed all, the world over? Think about it in that light.
 
Epoisses

Epoisses

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Cross Reference said:
Well, you sure are overlooking the righteous OT saints when you say that?
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The OT saints looked forward to a redeemer to come and we look backwards to a redeemer who has already come and accomplished his mission. They saw things dimly and with less clarity so they were given more leniency. We see things more clearly and have been given the revelation of Christ so there won't be any excuses.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

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Epoisses said:
The OT saints looked forward to a redeemer to come and we look backwards to a redeemer who has already come and accomplished his mission. They saw things dimly and with less clarity so they were given more leniency. We see things more clearly and have been given the revelation of Christ so there won't be any excuses.
Click to expand...

How many OT saints come to your mind when you say that, one?
 
Nanja

Nanja

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beloved57 said:
Who are the Us here ?

1 Jn 3:16

16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

No doubt the Us here is the same as it is here when its written that He laid down His Life for the Sheep Jn 10:15

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

So the Us in 1 Jn 3:16 is specifically the Sheep of Jn 10:15 !
Click to expand...


Exactly! Christ laid down His life for Us:
All the Sheep John 10:11 His Father gave Him John 10:29.

Is. 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way;
and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

~~~~~
 
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