The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[Squeaky]

Another popular Myth in the religious world today, is the Jesus Christ died or gave His Life for everyone in the world without exception, but the problem with that, is there is not one shred of scripture evidence that states that.

The scripture however does say that He died for His Sheep or His Church as per Jn 10:11,15

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Eph 5:25

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

His People Isa 53:8

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. cp Matt 1:21

Now, are all without exception His Sheep ? No

Are all without exception His Church ? No

Are all without exception His People ? No

For surely the seed of the serpent Gen 3:15 cannot be of His Sheep, His Church, or His People.

So why does the religous world proclaim that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception, when they have no scripture proof ? Because it is a Myth.

I said
ALL NEVER MEANS ALL (IN THE CARNAL SENSE)
Matt 5:14-16
14 "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.
15 "Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.
16 "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
Matt 6:33-34
33 "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
34 "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
John 5:36
36 "But I have a greater witness than John's; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish-- the very works that I do-- bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me.
John 6:39
39 "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
John 18:11
11 Then Jesus said to Peter, "Put your sword into the sheath. Shall I not drink the cup which My Father has given Me?"
Heb 2:13
13 And again: "I will put My trust in Him." And again: "Here am I and the children whom God has given Me."
John 6:44-48
44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 "It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.
46 "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.
47 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
48 "I am the bread of life.
John 6:65-69
65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.
67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, "Do you also want to go away?"
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
69 "Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
John 17:1-2
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
John 17:6-7
6 "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
7 "Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You.
John 17:10-12
10 "And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
11 "Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
(NKJ)

XXX All is a figure of speech. We can see that to Jesus all was all those that God had given Him. Which is all those who become Christians and are born again. All those that follow Jesus' example.

Mark 10:45
45 "For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."
(NKJ)

John 17:12
12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
(NKJ)

John 13:1

1 Now before the feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that His hour had come that He should depart from this world to the Father, having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the end.
(NKJ)

1Thes 3:11-13
11 Now may our God and Father Himself, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way to you.
12 And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love to one another and to all, just as we do to you,
13 so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.
(NKJ)

 

[bybee]

I said
ALL NEVER MEANS ALL (IN THE CARNAL SENSE)
Matt 5:14-16
14 "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.
15 "Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.
16 "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
Matt 6:33-34
33 "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
34 "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
John 5:36
36 "But I have a greater witness than John's; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish-- the very works that I do-- bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me.
John 6:39
39 "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
John 18:11
11 Then Jesus said to Peter, "Put your sword into the sheath. Shall I not drink the cup which My Father has given Me?"
Heb 2:13
13 And again: "I will put My trust in Him." And again: "Here am I and the children whom God has given Me."
John 6:44-48
44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 "It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.
46 "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.
47 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
48 "I am the bread of life.
John 6:65-69
65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.
67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, "Do you also want to go away?"
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
69 "Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
John 17:1-2
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
John 17:6-7
6 "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
7 "Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You.
John 17:10-12
10 "And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
11 "Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
(NKJ)

XXX All is a figure of speech. We can see that to Jesus all was all those that God had given Him. Which is all those who become Christians and are born again. All those that follow Jesus' example.

Mark 10:45
45 "For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."
(NKJ)

John 17:12
12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
(NKJ)

John 13:1

1 Now before the feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that His hour had come that He should depart from this world to the Father, having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the end.
(NKJ)

1Thes 3:11-13
11 Now may our God and Father Himself, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way to you.
12 And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love to one another and to all, just as we do to you,
13 so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.
(NKJ)

Thanks Squeaky. I love all of the verses you have quoted in this post! They are comfortable words indeed!

 

[Rightglory]

rg



You quoted post 501, now rehearse the points with me I made with scripture. Lets see if you follow my train of thought. Can you do that ?

Only the texts you quoted have any value. YOur comments have nothing to do with the texts. You have this hyper calvinism theory which simply takes pagan ideas and couches them in biblical phrases. There is nothing in your comments that can be supported with scripture as scripture has always been understood.

I recognize that man can make it say anything they desire with the correct prooftexting, which is what you have done. However, that does not make it the meaning of scripture. It is just your opinion along with some erroneous support of Calvin.

You have yet to even refute the texts that I posted prior to post #501. One would expect a response to my post and what I got is your post #501 which addressed none of the texts, nor gave any evidence refuting Christ's Incarnation.

Simply spouting your opinion based on the theories of Calvinism does not make them scriptural by simply prooftexting some seemingly supportive texts.

You need to show that not all men were ungodly, or sinners. YOu need to posit that mankind has more than one human nature? Where is your support for this?

 

[beloved57]

rg

Only the texts you quoted have any value.

You quoted post 501, now rehearse the points with me I made with scripture. Lets see if you follow my train of thought. Can you do that ?

 

[Rightglory]

rg



You quoted post 501, now rehearse the points with me I made with scripture. Lets see if you follow my train of thought. Can you do that ?

I have already shown that your OP cannot be supported by scripture, as scripture has always been believed.

Since you have twice been unable to show any evidence outside of your opinion, I must assume you cannot produce any.

 

[beloved57]

I have already shown that your OP cannot be supported by scripture, as scripture has always been believed.

Since you have twice been unable to show any evidence outside of your opinion, I must assume you cannot produce any.

You quoted post 501, now rehearse the points with me I made with scripture. Lets see if you follow my train of thought. Can you do that ?

 

[Rightglory]

You quoted post 501, now rehearse the points with me I made with scripture. Lets see if you follow my train of thought. Can you do that ?

Post #501 does not even address my post to which you were supposed to reply. There is nothing in that post, except the texts, that has any value. Reply with cogent evidence to the post prior to it. If you cannot just say so.

 

[beloved57]

Post #501 does not even address my post to which you were supposed to reply. There is nothing in that post, except the texts, that has any value. Reply with cogent evidence to the post prior to it. If you cannot just say so.

You quoted post 501, now rehearse the points with me I made with scripture. Lets see if you follow my train of thought. Can you do that ?

 

[Rightglory]

You quoted post 501, now rehearse the points with me I made with scripture. Lets see if you follow my train of thought. Can you do that ?

You've got a broken record. Post 501 hsa been answered and found wanting. It did not address my post #500. Since you have had many opportu ities to reply, I can only dassume you have no answer or evidence.

 

[beloved57]

You've got a broken record. Post 501 hsa been answered and found wanting. It did not address my post #500. Since you have had many opportu ities to reply, I can only dassume you have no answer or evidence.

You quoted post 501, now rehearse the points with me I made with scripture. Lets see if you follow my train of thought. Can you do that ?

 

[Rightglory]

You quoted post 501, now rehearse the points with me I made with scripture. Lets see if you follow my train of thought. Can you do that ?

You have no train of thought. It is called hyper-calvinism. A man made theory that has no basis in scripture.

Give a text that refutes the Incarnation of Christ?

Show any text that states only some people were effected by the fall?
Show any text that states Christ ONLY died for some?

Show any text that states that ONLY some will be raised in the last day?

 

[beloved57]

You have no train of thought. It is called hyper-calvinism. A man made theory that has no basis in scripture.

Give a text that refutes the Incarnation of Christ?

Show any text that states only some people were effected by the fall?
Show any text that states Christ ONLY died for some?

Show any text that states that ONLY some will be raised in the last day?

You quoted post 501, now rehearse the points with me I made with scripture. Lets see if you follow my train of thought. Can you do that ?

 

[Rightglory]

You quoted post 501, now rehearse the points with me I made with scripture. Lets see if you follow my train of thought. Can you do that ?

Do you have the ability to carry on a discussion?
Are you able to defend your position?
You seem to be nothng but a broken record.

 

[beloved57]

Do you have the ability to carry on a discussion?
Are you able to defend your position?
You seem to be nothng but a broken record.

You quoted post 501, now rehearse the points with me I made with scripture. Lets see if you follow my train of thought. Can you do that ?

 

[Rightglory]

You quoted post 501, now rehearse the points with me I made with scripture. Lets see if you follow my train of thought. Can you do that ?

No point in proceding here since you obviously do not understand what a discussion entails.

 

[beloved57]

No point in proceding here since you obviously do not understand what a discussion entails.

You quoted post 501, now rehearse/discuss the points with me I made with scripture. Lets see if you follow my train of thought. Can you do that ?

 

[beloved57]

Heb 2:17 Reconciliation for the sins of the People !

Heb 2:17 Reconciliation for the sins of the People !

Heb 2:17

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Another scripture that speaks to the definite atonement of Christ is this one. This is one of a great many texts that teaches that the death of Christ was not for the sins of all mankind without exception, but that it was explicitly for a definite people. The definite people is the seed of Abraham Heb 2:16

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

And all mankind without exception is not the seed of Abraham !

For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants.NIV

For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham.

For death was not authorized over the Angels, but death was authorized over the seed of Abraham.ABIE

It cannot be made more plainer whom He came to rescue !

The Seed of Abraham is who is meant in Vs 17 as being the People whom sins were reconciled for or propitiated.

In the greek it reads :

ὅθεν ὤφειλεν κατὰ πάντα τοῖς ἀδελφοῖς ὁμοιωθῆναι, ἵνα ἐλεήμων γένηται καὶ πιστὸς ἀρχιερεὺς τὰ πρὸς τὸν θεόν, εἰς τὸ ἱλάσκεσθαι τὰς ἁμαρτίας τοῦ λαοῦ:

Both the sins and the people have the definite article, indicating He made propitiation for definite sins and a definite people, just like the Type High Priest Aaron on the day of atonement.

Also notice the word reconciliation here in Heb 2:17, its the word ἱλάσκομαι here its a verb which means:

I have mercy on, show favor to, (b) trans. with object of sins: I forgive, pardon.

However, its noun form hilasmos is used here 1 Jn 2:2

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Jn 4:10

10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Hence with comparing scripture with scripture, Christ's Propitiation sacrifice was only for the World of the Seed of Abraham.

That is, The Seed of Abraham within the jewish state and within the other nations of the World, remember God told Abraham this Gen 17:5

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

The seed of Abraham meant in Heb 2:16 is not the physical seed of Abraham, or his descendent's according to the flesh [See Rom 9:8], but its Abraham's Spiritual Seed of Promise, which does include people from among the ethnic jews as well as from other ethnicities or gentiles.

His atoning as Per Heb 2:17 was for the sins of the people, and not for the sins of all mankind without exception. Yes He was the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the World Jn 1:29

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

But that world is limited to the Seed of Abraham, which Seed was world wide as in all Nations of the world.

 

[beloved57]

Heb 2:17 Reconciliation for the sins of the People ! 2

Heb 2:17 Reconciliation for the sins of the People ! 2

More scripture that collaborates and are indicative of Christ's death not being for all mens sins in general, but specifically for the People as was pointed out before in Heb 2:17

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Again the greek stating :

ὅθεν ὤφειλεν κατὰ πάντα τοῖς ἀδελφοῖς ὁμοιωθῆναι, ἵνα ἐλεήμων γένηται καὶ πιστὸς ἀρχιερεὺς τὰ πρὸς τὸν θεόν, εἰς τὸ ἱλάσκεσθαι τὰς ἁμαρτίας τοῦ λαοῦ:

Tas amartias, the specific sins of a specific people !

Now thats collaborated here also Heb 7:27

27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's[sins]: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

The High Priest here, a type of Christ who is our High Priest Heb 4:14-15, only made an Offering for the sins of the People He represented as pointed out in Heb 2:17.

Again 1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Our sins here does not mean all mankind individually without exception, but specifically those believers, the elect of God 1 Pet 1:1-2

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

He is said to have died for the sins of an peculiar people , a chosen generation !

The word chosen here is the same greek word eklektos as in 1 Pet 1:1-2 !

Christ's death in scripture is comparative to that of an High Priest to an specific people, and such is never general and or indefinite, but particular and definite as was the Type in the High Priest of Israel, God's Chosen People. He would only have the sins of the People of Israel on his heart before the mercy seat.

Lev 16:16,21,34

And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins: and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remaineth among them in the midst of their uncleanness.

And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the

And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the Lord commanded Moses.

Now if Christ's atoning death was anything but definite and particular for an elected people as typified by the High Priest of Israel the OT Type, then the Gospel looses its typical ramifications as Christ's death being according to scripture for our sin 1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

The OT scriptures in its typical significance was always for the sins of an specific people, not all the world in general, so hence a general death of Christ for the sins of all men without exception, such is not according to scripture, and therefore should be noted as a false Gospel. Remember what Paul said here Gal 1:8-9

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Why in the world do you have so much neg rep?

 

[Epoisses]

nincompoopery?