The Most Violated Commandments of the Lord?

[dataylor]

Notice our Lord's commandments from Matthew 23:8-10:

But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers.

Here the Greek for rabbi means "my master;" while the Greek for teacher means "instructor." Nevertheless, most Christians elevate their teaching ministers to positions of spiritual authority by calling them pastors, priests, chaplins, elders, and teachers.

Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.

Nevertheless, Catholic Christians call their clergy "father."

Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ.

Here the Greek for leaders means guide, master or teacher. Nevertheless, most Christians consider their clergy specially called spiritual leaders whom oversee the church.

* * * *​

Now look at what Paul wrote in Ephesians 4:11:

And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers

Here the Greek translated pastors is pronounced poimēn. And it specifically means a “shepherd.”

But look at what Jesus said in John 10:16:

I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with ONE shepherd.

Furthermore, we have already seen how in Matthew 23, Jesus said “for One is your Teacher.” So not only does most of Christianity disobey what Jesus taught, but the apostle Paul promoted such disobedience.

* * * *​

Question: So are Christians free to follow the instructions of Paul, and openly disobey what Jesus taught?

 

[Man.0]

Consider Matthew 28:16-20:

'Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them. When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted. And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.'

The disciples were being commissioned to teach, by Jesus Christ Himself. So if they were being commissioned to teach, what does that make them? What is a person who teaches, if not a teacher?

Besides this, if they are being taught by the Teacher (1 John 2:27;John 14:26;John 16:13) why should they not become teachers themselves by passing that teaching of truth, which they receive from God, onto others? How will the body of Christ be edified if there are no teachers? The teachers in Christ's body, are not speaking from their own opinion and imaginations, and making up their own doctrines; but rather, they are are delivering what is inspired, or revealed to them, by God. As are the prophets, pastors, apostles and evangelists.

 

[dataylor]

Consider Matthew 28:16-20:

'Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them. When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted. And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.'

The disciples were being commissioned to teach, by Jesus Christ Himself. So if they were being commissioned to teach, what does that make them? What is a person who teaches, if not a teacher?

Besides this, if they are being taught by the Teacher (1 John 2:27;John 14:26;John 16:13) why should they not become teachers themselves by passing that teaching of truth, which they receive from God, onto others? How will the body of Christ be edified if there are no teachers? The teachers in Christ's body, are not speaking from their own opinion and imaginations, and making up their own doctrines; but rather, they are are delivering what is inspired, or revealed to them, by God. As are the prophets, pastors, apostles and evangelists.

Let's read the part you did not emphasize:

'Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them. When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted. And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.'

The apostles and all those who followed them were never authorized to preach anything other than the precise words of Jesus Christ. And as the apostle John wrote, those who preach that which contradicts Jesus are godless "antichrists:"

Whoever denies [Greek: contradicts] the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses [Greek: agrees with] the Son has the Father also (I John 2:23)

Thus John makes it easy to identify those who are against Christ:

These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him (I John 2:26-27).

 

[Man.0]

So what is your point exactly?

And going back to your first post, are you saying that Paul disobeyed Jesus?

 

[dataylor]

No. My original question is more personal: "So are Christians free to follow the instructions of Paul, and openly disobey what Jesus taught?"

Thus as modern Christians, should we:

1) sit in front of human spiritual leaders and and drink in what they tell us?

or

2) individually study the teachings of the Lord, and then assemble as a group of peers to share our studies?

 

[genuineoriginal]

The Most Violated Commandments of the Lord?

Is it this one?

Exodus 30:8 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.​

 

[Kdall]

Is it this one?

Exodus 30:8 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.​

Oh yeah. Especially when you consider that the Sabbath is supposed to be Saturday originally

 

[dataylor]

Hardly.

The Sabbath commandment was given to the nation of Israel as part of the Old Covenant. Christians are under another covenant -- read Jer 31:30-31. Also see Exod 34:27-28.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Hardly.

The Sabbath commandment was given to the nation of Israel as part of the Old Covenant. Christians are under another covenant -- read Jer 31:30-31. Also see Exod 34:27-28.

So this commandment has been revoked as well?

Exodus 20:13 13 Thou shalt not kill.​

 

[dataylor]

So this commandment has been revoked as well?

Exodus 20:13 13 Thou shalt not kill.​

Nice (but rather sneaky) try. I never said the Old Covenant was revoked. But Christians live under a better covenant (Heb 8:6) where no only do they not murder, but love their neighbor as themselves.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Jesus told His apostles to go announce the good news to everyone, teaching them.....

What shall we call those who teach?

Do you deny that Christ PERSONALLY chose Paul?

 

[dataylor]

Jesus told His apostles to go announce the good news to everyone, teaching them.....

What shall we call those who teach?

Do you deny that Christ PERSONALLY chose Paul?

I certainly value much of what Paul wrote. However, it's undeniable that Paul wrote things that contradict the teachings of Jesus, especially in the area of church authority. In addition, I find it unsettling that Paul ordains himself an apostle, and that he refers to "my gospel."

But since Paul cannot save me and grant me eternal life, I find none of this a serious issue to my personal Christianity. My focus is on Christ, not Paul.

 

[Man.0]

Nice (but rather sneaky) try. I never said the Old Covenant was revoked. But Christians live under a better covenant (Heb 8:6)

So two covenants are currently in existence/operation? For you said that 'Christians live under a better covenant' (which must mean it's different than the first), and that the Old one wasn't revoked.

where no only do they not murder, but love their neighbor as themselves.

So those in the 'Old Covenant' weren't loving their neighbour as themselves?

 

[Totton Linnet]

I certainly value much of what Paul wrote. However, it's undeniable that Paul wrote things that contradict the teachings of Jesus, especially in the area of church authority. In addition, I find it unsettling that Paul ordains himself an apostle, and that he refers to "my gospel."

But since Paul cannot save me and grant me eternal life, I find none of this a serious issue to my personal Christianity. My focus is on Christ, not Paul.

Did you not read in Acts that it was Christ who ordained Paul? and subsequently at Antioch the Holy Spirit? Jesus sent His apostles to teach, again I ask what should we call people who teach?

Also Paul everywhere calls himself a servant.

Also He says he received his traditions personally from the Lord. And Paul gave all the authority to the assembly and refused to lord it over anyone's faith.

I have never seen any contradiction between Christ and Paul.

 

[dataylor]

Did you not read in Acts that it was Christ who ordained Paul? and subsequently at Antioch the Holy Spirit? Jesus sent His apostles to teach, again I ask what should we call people who teach?

Also Paul everywhere calls himself a servant.

Also He says he received his traditions personally from the Lord. And Paul gave all the authority to the assembly and refused to lord it over anyone's faith.

I have never seen any contradiction between Christ and Paul.

Well, you certainly have the right to believe whatever you want. And if there indeed were no contradictions, I doubt this tread would have gone anywhere.

But there indeed are contradictions between Jesus and Paul, and entire books have been written on the subject. Interestingly, pastors have to cling to Paul, because he is the only NT biblical writer that supports an authoritative ministry over God's people.

So perhaps you are a pastor?

 

[keypurr]

Thou shall no other Gods. Need I say more?

 

[dataylor]

Thou shall no other Gods. Need I say more?

Amen.

 

[achduke]

Well, you certainly have the right to believe whatever you want. And if there indeed were no contradictions, I doubt this tread would have gone anywhere.

But there indeed are contradictions between Jesus and Paul, and entire books have been written on the subject. Interestingly, pastors have to cling to Paul, because he is the only NT biblical writer that supports an authoritative ministry over God's people.

So perhaps you are a pastor?

I am curious what contradictions you find in Paul? I understand Paul is hard to understand. Even peter noted this. Also for the new covenant you specify in Jeremiah 31. That was for the House of Israel and the House of Judah. Are you in the House of Israel or the House of Judah?

Thank you,

 

[dataylor]

I am curious what contradictions you find in Paul? I understand Paul is hard to understand. Even peter noted this. Also for the new covenant you specify in Jeremiah 31. That was for the House of Israel and the House of Judah. Are you in the House of Israel or the House of Judah?

Thank you,

Paul taught in great detail how a Christian fellowship should operate: whether women should speak (I Corinthians 14:34), the qualifications for a church leader (I Timothy 3:2-12 & Titus 1:6-9), how to handle the widows (I Timothy 5:3-16), what to do about those who will not work (II Thessalonians 3:10), and when to put someone out of the fellowship (I Corinthians 5:1-5). He even instructed the brethren how to handle matters of marriage (I Corinthians 7:1-17). Paul was deeply involved in the personal affairs of his brothers and sisters.

Matthew 20:25-26: But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion (kat-ak-oo-ree-yoo'-o) over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you…

 

[dataylor]

Another comparison:

John 10:27: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

Jesus clearly commanded His sheep to follow Him personally. Additionally, there are 16 other verses where Christ expressly stated His disciples should be following Him: Matthew 4:19, 8:22, 9:9, 6:24, 19:21, Mark 2:14, 8:34, 10:21, Luke 5:27, 9:23, 9:59, 18:22, John 1:43, 12:26, 21:19, 21:22.

Now let’s compare Jesus’ statements with what the apostle Paul wrote:

I Corinthians 11:1: Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Philippians 3:17: Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.