ECT The Mission Launched at Pentecost

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SimpleMan77

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
So according to you the nation of Israel did repent? But why was the Lord Jesus not sent back?:

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, that the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you" (Acts 3:19-20).




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The Apostles definitely thought that Jesus would return far before now. In fact, for hundreds of years people have thought He was coming any time, but He still hasn't.
All of that verse is still true. There's still a rest in the Holy Ghost, and Jesus is still returning when He gets ready.


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S

SimpleMan77

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
You are wrong. This prophecy is indeed in regard to the natural nation of Israel:

"And I will bring them (Israel), and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing...In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" (Zech.8:8,13,23).

It was Israel according to the flesh which was a curse and which will be a blessing.
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It is simply a fact that Paul said that the church, the Body of Christ, is the Israel of God. All prophecies that refer to Israel aren't referring to a natural nation. I don't think you or I are qualified to fully say which is and which isn't.


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I

Interplanner

Well-known member
SimpleMan77 said:
It is simply a fact that Paul said that the church, the Body of Christ, is the Israel of God. All prophecies that refer to Israel aren't referring to a natural nation. I don't think you or I are qualified to fully say which is and which isn't.


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I don't know how to get the literalist to appreciate the advanced meaning in the NT. How do you show a person what a living temple is? How do you show a person that 'the temple he was speaking of was his body'? When the Rev says that there is no need for sun in the NHNE because God and Christ are the sun and the light, how does the literalist take the step forward and 'get' that? Does he really think you and I will will have gentile people come to us and nurse, as in one passage in Isaiah? What if we are men and don't lactate?
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
So according to you the nation of Israel did repent? But why was the Lord Jesus not sent back?:

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, that the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you" (Acts 3:19-20).




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Christ did richly dwell in all those who had faith and worked in his mission. You thought, you framed the question, to mean an 'event', a one-time thing in history. It is not.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
Christ did richly dwell in all those who had faith and worked in his mission. You thought, you framed the question, to mean an 'event', a one-time thing in history. It is not.
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Christ indwelling believers was not dependent on the nation of Israel repenting:

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, that the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you" (Acts 3:19-20).
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
SimpleMan77 said:
It is simply a fact that Paul said that the church, the Body of Christ, is the Israel of God. All prophecies that refer to Israel aren't referring to a natural nation. I don't think you or I are qualified to fully say which is and which isn't.
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So are you saying that the reference to Israel in this verse is speaking of the Body of Christ?:

"And I will bring them (Israel), and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing...In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" (Zech.8:8,13,23).

Since when was the Body of Christ a curse?

And if the house of Israel refers to the Body of Christ then what is the identity of the house of Judah?
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
So are you saying that the reference to Israel in this verse is speaking of the Body of Christ?:

"And I will bring them (Israel), and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing...In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" (Zech.8:8,13,23).

Since when was the Body of Christ a curse?

And if the house of Israel refers to the Body of Christ then what is the identity of the house of Judah?
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The Christian community never was a curse Jerry because it existed after Christ formed his first followers, etc. You seriously need to loosen up your approach. NT theology is to be treated as a wild animal about which we know very little. It will do no good to think it is a housecat.

As for the two houses, the OT is full of 'Hebrew parallelisms' and this is one of them; they are essentially repeat lines, referring to the same thing. Found all through provers, Psalms, prophets.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
The Christian community never was a curse Jerry because it existed after Christ formed his first followers, etc.
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But you said that the following prophecy which speaks of the house of Israel was referring to the Body of Christ:

"And I will bring them (Israel), and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing...In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" (Zech.8:8,13,23).

If you are right and the house of Israel here is referring to the Body of Christ then we must throw our reason to the wind and imagine that the Body of Christ was at one time a curse.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
But you said that the following prophecy which speaks of the house of Israel was referring to the Body of Christ:

"And I will bring them (Israel), and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing...In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" (Zech.8:8,13,23).

If you are right and the house of Israel here is referring to the Body of Christ then we must throw our reason to the wind and imagine that the Body of Christ was at one time a curse.
Click to expand...


No, you must realize that all OT prophecy finds its advanced meaning in Christ. It is not to be read in the ordinary way ('kata sarka' of 2 Cor 5) but in Christ where the veil is removed. Zech is true but not the way you think.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
And YET Jesus did NOT yet give up on them.

Luke 23:34 (AKJV/PCE)​
(23:34) ¶ Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. ​

And YET Jesus STILL sent His disciples to preach to Israel.
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Yes, he wanted workers in his mission from anywhere he could get them. That's the entity, going forward, that was to succeed and flourish, not a Judaistic theocracy. That was never the plan.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Jerry,

If you want to see IP get mad, point out that Josephus' own report of stone towers left standing when Rome was done does not jive with Luke 19:44. He hates that but can't refute it, so he ignores it.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
musterion said:
Jerry,

If you want to see IP get mad, point out that Josephus' own report of stone towers left standing when Rome was done does not jive with Luke 19:44. He hates that but can't refute it, so he ignores it.
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No, it is irrelevant. The place was decimated and there was molten activity that stopped reconstruction even a few years later, to underscore the point.

Again I ask, since you think Acts was about Israel's failure, and the DofJ happens a few years after that, what is your problem with the DofJ as an extremely important event that brings closure to NT history?
 
S

SimpleMan77

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
So according to you the nation of Israel did repent? But why was the Lord Jesus not sent back?:

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, that the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you" (Acts 3:19-20).




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[/QUOTE]

No, the nation never repented. Some in the nation did. Some in other. Actions did. Together, those Jews and Gentiles who repented make up the "Israel of God".

I agree that the refreshing has been being poured out for almost 2,000 years now, and Jesus hasn't returned.

He is coming though. You can bank on it.


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