ECT The Law and Prophets Testify, Rom 3

Interplanner

Well-known member
The saving righteousness of God, in which Christ was punished for all evil on behalf of sinners, has been made known in the Gospel, and the Law and the Prophets testified about it. It was not a mystery that it was coming.

There is therefore also no difference between Jew and Greek, even though Paul indicated there was an advantage; apparently 'advantage' does not equal a difference. He restated that there was no difference with total emphasis back in v9.
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
Shalom.

I believe Yeshua to be the Messiah. I have been told that I am not a Christian. I am a Jew of Israel.

Today is Shlishli, Aviv 11.

The words no difference are not there.

Acts 15:9 NASB - and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
Romans 3:22 NASB - even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;
Romans 10:12 NASB - For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
Colossians 3:11 NASB - a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
It was not a mystery that it was coming.

Then why did Paul say that now it is being made known?:

"But now apart from law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus"
(Ro.3:21-24).​
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
The saving righteousness of God, in which Christ was punished for all evil on behalf of sinners, has been made known in the Gospel, and the Law and the Prophets testified about it. It was not a mystery that it was coming.

There is therefore also no difference between Jew and Greek, even though Paul indicated there was an advantage; apparently 'advantage' does not equal a difference. He restated that there was no difference with total emphasis back in v9.

Here's the actual quote,

Romans 3
3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:


In the context, the righteousness of God was witnessed by the law and the prophets...not the fact that it would be manifested apart from the Law.

You missed again and are grasping at straws.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
In the context, the righteousness of God was witnessed by the law and the prophets...not the fact that it would be manifested apart from the Law.

The righteousness of God apart from law was witnessed in "the law and the prophets" (the OT) and in the next chapter the Apostle Paul used both Abraham and David as examples to prove that OT believers received the imputed righteousness which is of God.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
The righteousness of God apart from law was witnessed in "the law and the prophets" (the OT) and in the next chapter the Apostle Paul used both Abraham and David as examples to prove that OT believers received the imputed righteousness which is of God.




Thanks Jerry, I knew STP gets so many things foul, but I can't believe he would skip around on this one and call it "in context." "in his head" yes.
 

marhig

Well-known member
That chapter basically means, that even though you follow the law, your heart can still be wrong, as we can still lust after the flesh inwardly having a wrong heart and mind.

Even if we live by the law outwardly, we can still lust after the flesh, God wants that heart of lust gone from within us and that's only possible through Christ by the Spirit he's the way, the truth and the life. Those who have true faith in God and live by his will, in his time, will receive the blessing of the Spirit, and they live by faith and listen to the Spirit and they are being cleansed inwardly without the letter of the law, both Jew and gentile through Christ, having the wall between them broken down, the two becoming one body through Christ Jesus, being taught by the Spirit of truth inwardly, being shown their sins daily as they walk in the truth, and being prompted and urged by the will of God through Christ by the Spirit to turn from sin. And those who listen to the Spirit and obey him, live by the will of God. These are the children of God living be faith, denying themselves to live by God's will, following Jesus. Listening to the Spirit in their heart daily as they walk in the Spirit, walking in the light baring witness to the truth.

It's not just reading the letter of the law and following it, (although the law is good and puts you to death), it's listening to the law being written in our hearts and in our minds by the Spirit as he guides and teaches us daily in the truth, the law puts us to death, but the spirit brings us life and light. And Christ Jesus is that life and light, and he has lived it out as a perfect example for us to follow, he had the fullness of God and the full power of the Spirit because he denied his flesh completely to live by the will of God and he's fulfilled the laws and showed us the way to live right before God. And his sheep hear his voice and they follow him in a new and living way to live before the father, and they are given help to overcome the flesh and world, by the power of the Spirit, through Christ, through faith by the grace of God.

Without God, we can do nothing as sin dwells in us, and our flesh always sins, this is where Satan is, in the flesh, this is the dust that he crawls in, the flesh is the food of his days and his days are darkness, he can't see light, and neither can those who live in the flesh and love this world, their only hope is Christ Jesus and we are made righteous and just through Christ by the Spirit as the Spirit changes our hearts to be more like that of Jesus. The more we are willing to lay down our lives and turn from this world of sin, and deny our flesh, the more God will help us and we will become stronger in him and overcome if we live by his will and remain in his goodness.

With God all things are possible, and we can overcome anything that Satan throws at us or tempts us with, because he who is in us is stronger than he who is the world. And God won't let Satan corrupt the hearts of those who belong to him, those that live by his will, he will seal them with the Holy Spirit and give them the strength to bare suffering and persecution and help them to deny the fleshly ways of the world as they live by faith daily in him, walking in the Spirit alive in God through Christ.

My heart is constantly with God, I talk to him always, I pray anywhere I love him deeply and I know that I must put him before others in my life and before myself also. I must bow down the knee and become humble, my old man gone being covered by Christ, because that's the only way that we can reach anyone in this world, because it's only through a humble heart that Christ can work his miracles and give sight to the blind, give hearing to the deaf, help the lame to walk and bring the dead to life by the word of God and the life of Christ, in and through those who belong to him.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
:chuckle:

And, concerning the 4,917 things Jerry has corrected you on?





What about you? You used this passage wrong. That's what this topic is. The Law and Prophets did testify, and D'ism tesitifies that no one understood the Bible until the 1800s when they made sense of it.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
You can pretty much take the normal meaning of a passage, put a negative on it, and end up with the D'ist position.

If the text says the Law and Prophets testify to a righteousness of God apart from law (it's referring to Christ), the D'ist says "not."
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Those who have true faith in God and live by his will, in his time, will receive the blessing of the Spirit, and they live by faith and listen to the Spirit and they are being cleansed inwardly without the letter of the law...

So in order to receive the blessing of the Spirit we must believe AND LIVE BY HIS WILL?

How would you answer the Apostle Paul's question here?:

"Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?" (Gal.3:2).​
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
The Law and Prophets did testify, and D'ism tesitifies that no one understood the Bible until the 1800s when they made sense of it.

As usual you missed the point that it wasn't openly revealed until Paul revealed it and that is why he wrote what is in "bold":

"But now apart from law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:21-24).​

But now it is revealed. It was not revealed before Paul.
 

marhig

Well-known member
So in order to receive the blessing of the Spirit we must believe AND LIVE BY HIS WILL?

How would you answer the Apostle Paul's question here?:

"Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?" (Gal.3:2).​

With faith comes obedience and the apostles all obeyed the word of God through Christ Jesus, including Paul who straight away said, "Lord, what wilt thou have me to do" no hesitation, obedience straight away from Paul, no obedience, no Spirit and those with the Spirit start to overcome the flesh by the power of the Spirit as they live by the will of God.

Acts 5:32

And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
 

marhig

Well-known member
You obviously do not know the answer to Paul's question here:

"Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?" (Gal.3:2).​
Romans 10

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.


God has always wanted us to obey him, and it's only when we obey him do we receive the Holy Spirit as seen in Acts 5. And it's then that we have the power to overcome as God changes our hearts to be more like that of Christ's as long as we listen to the Spirit as he teaches and guides us, remain in God's goodness and live by his will and turn from sin and the world.
 
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