The Late Great Urantia Revelation

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Caino

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Second Appearance to the Apostles




(2042.5) 191:5.1 Thomas spent a lonesome week alone with himself in the hills around about Olivet. During this time he saw only those at Simon’s house and John Mark. It was about nine o’clock on Saturday, April 15, when the two apostles found him and took him back with them to their rendezvous at the Mark home. The next day Thomas listened to the telling of the stories of the Master’s various appearances, but he steadfastly refused to believe. He maintained that Peter had enthused them into thinking they had seen the Master. Nathaniel reasoned with him, but it did no good. There was an emotional stubbornness associated with his customary doubtfulness, and this state of mind, coupled with his chagrin at having run away from them, conspired to create a situation of isolation which even Thomas himself did not fully understand. He had withdrawn from his fellows, he had gone his own way, and now, even when he was back among them, he unconsciously tended to assume an attitude of disagreement. He was slow to surrender; he disliked to give in. Without intending it, he really enjoyed the attention paid him; he derived unconscious satisfaction from the efforts of all his fellows to convince and convert him. He had missed them for a full week, and he obtained considerable pleasure from their persistent attentions.

(2042.6) 191:5.2 They were having their evening meal a little after six o’clock, with Peter sitting on one side of Thomas and Nathaniel on the other, when the doubting apostle said: “I will not believe unless I see the Master with my own eyes and put my finger in the mark of the nails.” As they thus sat at supper, and while the doors were securely shut and barred, the morontia Master suddenly appeared inside the curvature of the table and, standing directly in front of Thomas, said:

(2043.1) 191:5.3 “Peace be upon you. For a full week have I tarried that I might appear again when you were all present to hear once more the commission to go into all the world and preach this gospel of the kingdom. Again I tell you: As the Father sent me into the world, so send I you. As I have revealed the Father, so shall you reveal the divine love, not merely with words, but in your daily living. I send you forth, not to love the souls of men, but rather to love men. You are not merely to proclaim the joys of heaven but also to exhibit in your daily experience these spirit realities of the divine life since you already have eternal life, as the gift of God, through faith. When you have faith, when power from on high, the Spirit of Truth, has come upon you, you will not hide your light here behind closed doors; you will make known the love and the mercy of God to all mankind. Through fear you now flee from the facts of a disagreeable experience, but when you shall have been baptized with the Spirit of Truth, you will bravely and joyously go forth to meet the new experiences of proclaiming the good news of eternal life in the kingdom of God. You may tarry here and in Galilee for a short season while you recover from the shock of the transition from the false security of the authority of traditionalism to the new order of the authority of facts, truth, and faith in the supreme realities of living experience. Your mission to the world is founded on the fact that I lived a God-revealing life among you; on the truth that you and all other men are the sons of God; and it shall consist in the life which you will live among men — the actual and living experience of loving men and serving them, even as I have loved and served you. Let faith reveal your light to the world; let the revelation of truth open the eyes blinded by tradition; let your loving service effectually destroy the prejudice engendered by ignorance. By so drawing close to your fellow men in understanding sympathy and with unselfish devotion, you will lead them into a saving knowledge of the Father’s love. The Jews have extolled goodness; the Greeks have exalted beauty; the Hindus preach devotion; the faraway ascetics teach reverence; the Romans demand loyalty; but I require of my disciples life, even a life of loving service for your brothers in the flesh.” *

(2043.2) 191:5.4 When the Master had so spoken, he looked down into the face of Thomas and said: “And you, Thomas, who said you would not believe unless you could see me and put your finger in the nail marks of my hands, have now beheld me and heard my words; and though you see no nail marks on my hands, since I am raised in the form that you also shall have when you depart from this world, what will you say to your brethren? You will acknowledge the truth, for already in your heart you had begun to believe even when you so stoutly asserted your unbelief. Your doubts, Thomas, always most stubbornly assert themselves just as they are about to crumble. Thomas, I bid you be not faithless but believing — and I know you will believe, even with a whole heart.”

(2043.3) 191:5.5 When Thomas heard these words, he fell on his knees before the morontia Master and exclaimed, “I believe! My Lord and my Master!” Then said Jesus to Thomas: “You have believed, Thomas, because you have really seen and heard me. Blessed are those in the ages to come who will believe even though they have not seen with the eye of flesh nor heard with the mortal ear.”

(2043.4) 191:5.6 And then, as the Master’s form moved over near the head of the table, he addressed them all, saying: “And now go all of you to Galilee, where I will presently appear to you.” After he said this, he vanished from their sight.

(2044.1) 191:5.7 The eleven apostles were now fully convinced that Jesus had risen from the dead, and very early the next morning, before the break of day, they started out for Galilee.




Caino
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Ok, let us know when you have read the book that you disagree with so we can have a real discussion.


Caino


In some peoples imagination, anything not their chosen brand of theology or their holy 'book' is a 'demon' - thats pretty 'infantile' to assume. But that often goes with fundamentalist mindsets and strains of religious bigotry investing in self-righteousness (the primary thrust behind the whole mission to have the 'orthodox' teaching)....you know how it goes, look at history.

The resource of this thread and our other UB thread stands, and any are free to critique the book, aspects of its teaching, etc. Alot could be said for an 'intelligent discussion', but some seem a little foggy on such a concept.


pj
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Freelight,

Jesus called the Pharisees vipers. He also cast demons out of people. Just because you agree with the demons of Urantia, it makes it impossible for them to be cast out, since you enjoy their familiar company, you viper.
 
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Caino

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In some peoples imagination, anything not their chosen brand of theology or their holy 'book' is a 'demon' - thats pretty 'infantile' to assume. But that often goes with fundamentalist mindsets and strains of religious bigotry investing in self-righteousness (the primary thrust behind the whole mission to have the 'orthodox' teaching)....you know how it goes, look at history.

The resource of this thread and our other UB thread stands, and any are free to critique the book, aspects of its teaching, etc. Alot could be said for an 'intelligent discussion', but some seem a little foggy on such a concept.


pj


Hi Freelight,

You reminded me of this:

155:6.9 "The religions of authority can only divide men and set them in conscientious array against each other; the religion of the spirit will progressively draw men together and cause them to become understandingly sympathetic with one another. The religions of authority require of men uniformity in belief, but this is impossible of realization in the present state of the world. The religion of the spirit requires only unity of experience — uniformity of destiny — making full allowance for diversity of belief. The religion of the spirit requires only uniformity of insight, not uniformity of viewpoint and outlook. The religion of the spirit does not demand uniformity of intellectual views, only unity of spirit feeling. The religions of authority crystallize into lifeless creeds; the religion of the spirit grows into the increasing joy and liberty of ennobling deeds of loving service and merciful ministration."





Caino
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Caino,

Jesus called the Pharisees vipers. He also cast demons out of people. Just because you agree with the demons of Urantia, it makes it impossible for them to be cast out, since you enjoy their familiar company, you viper.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Love divine

Love divine

Hi Freelight,

You reminded me of this:

155:6.9 "The religions of authority can only divide men and set them in conscientious array against each other; the religion of the spirit will progressively draw men together and cause them to become understandingly sympathetic with one another. The religions of authority require of men uniformity in belief, but this is impossible of realization in the present state of the world. The religion of the spirit requires only unity of experience — uniformity of destiny — making full allowance for diversity of belief. The religion of the spirit requires only uniformity of insight, not uniformity of viewpoint and outlook. The religion of the spirit does not demand uniformity of intellectual views, only unity of spirit feeling. The religions of authority crystallize into lifeless creeds; the religion of the spirit grows into the increasing joy and liberty of ennobling deeds of loving service and merciful ministration."


:thumb:


Right on. 'God' is the Universal Father of all, inspiring all with his omnipresent Spirit and ministration of divine Sons, thru-out the Infiniverse, the Master-Mind and divine Personality of personalities. This Infinite Intelligence is most wonderful, being the First Source and Center. The fundamental papers on the nature, being and personality of 'God' are clearly shared Here (Read first 5 papers). I usually recommend newcomers to read the first 12 papers for foundational understanding of the Fifth Epochal Revelation.

Intro. articles on the UB


All springs from the Infinite One, and returns to the Infinite One, for that One is All There Is.


Blessings!



pj
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Creator Sons

Creator Sons

Father, I thank You that You open their spiritual eyes to see what they are serving, and I ask this in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Father is glorified and honored respectively in the Urantia Papers, as well as Jesus, who is our Creator-Son, Savior and Sovereign Lord. The 'Christology' of the papers is different from traditional/orthodox doctrine since Jesus is one of many Creator-Sons originating from the Paradise Trinity, who is not the original Eternal Son within the Trinity, but is the Creator-Son, Savior and triumphant Sovereign Lord of this local universe-creation, our very planet, so holds the title and office as our Creator, Lord and Savior. Therefore asides from a different understanding of heirarchy within cosmic creation and the worlds of time and space, Jesus is Lord of all pertaining to this system. So any prayers to the Father or Jesus would be included in heralding the divine will, bringing to pass the plan and purpose of the kingdom of heaven on earth.

We would also note that Jesus title as 'Savior' does not mean that he was a blood-sacrifice given to appease the wrath of an angry god, or one who provides 'atonement' in a vicarious sense. The revelators equate such to primitive concepts and outdated belief-systems no longer adequate for the modern age, let alone that such portrayals of God misrepresent his true character.


For more on Creator Sons -

Paradise Creator Sons

Creator-Sons are also known as 'Michaels' (of the Order of Michael), so that Jesus is often referred to as 'Christ-Michael'. This has nothing to do with the arch-angel Michael of traditional theology, although 'Jesus' and 'Michael' have interestingly been compared or correlated. The name 'Michael' applies to this order of Son of God, since it means 'he who is like God'.




pj
 
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Caino

BANNED
Banned
The Father is glorified and honored respectively in the Urantia Papers, as well as Jesus, who is our Creator-Son, Savior and Sovereign Lord. The 'Christology' of the papers is different from traditional/orthodox doctrine since Jesus is one of many Creator-Sons originating from the Paradise Trinity, who is not the original Eternal Son within the Trinity, but is the Creator-Son, Savior and triumphant Sovereign Lord of this local universe-creation, our very planet, so holds the title and office as our Creator, Lord and Savior. Therefore asides from a different understanding of heirarchy within cosmic creation and the worlds of time and space, Jesus is Lord of all pertaining to this system. So any prayers to the Father or Jesus would be included in heralding the divine will, bringing to pass the plan and purpose of the kingdom of heaven on earth.

We would also note that Jesus title as 'Savior' does not mean that he was a blood-sacrifice given to appease the wrath of an angry god, or one who provides 'atonement' in a vicarious sense. The revelators equate such to primitive concepts and outdated belief-systems no longer adequate for the modern age, let alone that such portrayals of God misrepresent his true character.


For more on Creator Sons -

Paradise Creator Sons

Creator-Sons are also known as 'Michaels' (of the Order of Michael), so that Jesus is often referred to as 'Christ-Michael'. This has nothing to do with the arch-angel Michael of traditional theology, although 'Jesus' and 'Michael' have interestingly been compared or correlated. The name 'Michael' applies to this order of Son of God, since it means 'he who is like God'.




pj


Great synopsis Freelight :thumb:

Caino
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Jesus said:

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Apparently Caino and Freelight haven't had it given to them by The Father to come to Jesus, or they would believe His Word and not the words of a demon.
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
The day the original gospel of Jesus changed, replaced by a religion about Jesus, Paul’s Pagan compromise.​



BEGINNINGS OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH​

194:4.1 When Jesus was so suddenly seized by his enemies and so quickly crucified between two thieves, his apostles and disciples were completely demoralized. The thought of the Master, arrested, bound, scourged, and crucified, was too much for even the apostles. They forgot his teachings and his warnings. He might, indeed, have been “a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people,” but he could hardly be the Messiah they had hoped would restore the kingdom of Israel.

194:4.2 Then comes the resurrection, with its deliverance from despair and the return of their faith in the Master’s divinity. Again and again they see him and talk with him, and he takes them out on Olivet, where he bids them farewell and tells them he is going back to the Father. He has told them to tarry in Jerusalem until they are endowed with power—until the Spirit of Truth shall come. And on the day of Pentecost this new teacher comes, and they go out at once to preach their gospel with new power. They are the bold and courageous followers of a living Lord, not a dead and defeated leader. The Master lives in the hearts of these evangelists; God is not a doctrine in their minds; he has become a living presence in their souls.

194:4.3 “Day by day they continued steadfastly and with one accord in the temple and breaking bread at home. They took their food with gladness and singleness of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people. They were all filled with the spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness. And the multitudes of those who believed were of one heart and soul; and not one of them said that aught of the things which he possessed was his own, and they had all things in common.”

194:4.4 What has happened to these men whom Jesus had ordained to go forth preaching the gospel of the kingdom, the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man? They have a new gospel; they are on fire with a new experience; they are filled with a new spiritual energy. Their message has suddenly shifted to the proclamation of the risen Christ: “Jesus of Nazareth, a man God approved by mighty works and wonders; him, being delivered up by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, you did crucify and slay. The things which God foreshadowed by the mouth of all the prophets, he thus fulfilled. This Jesus did God raise up. God has made him both Lord and Christ. Being by the right hand of God, exalted, and having received from the Father the promise of the spirit, he has poured forth this which you see and hear. Repent, that your sins may be blotted out; that the Father may send the Christ, who has been appointed for you, even Jesus, whom the heaven must receive until the times of the restoration of all things.”

194:4.5 The gospel of the kingdom, the message of Jesus, had been suddenly changed into the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. They now proclaimed the facts of his life, death, and resurrection and preached the hope of his speedy return to this world to finish the work he began. Thus the message of the early believers had to do with preaching about the facts of his first coming and with teaching the hope of his second coming, an event which they deemed to be very near at hand.

194:4.6 Christ was about to become the creed of the rapidly forming church. Jesus lives; he died for men; he gave the spirit; he is coming again. Jesus filled all their thoughts and determined all their new concept of God and everything else. They were too much enthused over the new doctrine that “God is the Father of the Lord Jesus” to be concerned with the old message that “God is the loving Father of all men,” even of every single individual. True, a marvelous manifestation of brotherly love and unexampled good will did spring up in these early communities of believers. But it was a fellowship of believers in Jesus, not a fellowship of brothers in the family kingdom of the Father in heaven. Their good will arose from the love born of the concept of Jesus’ bestowal and not from the recognition of the brotherhood of mortal man. Nevertheless, they were filled with joy, and they lived such new and unique lives that all men were attracted to their teachings about Jesus. They made the great mistake of using the living and illustrative commentary on the gospel of the kingdom for that gospel, but even that represented the greatest religion mankind had ever known.

194:4.7 Unmistakably, a new fellowship was arising in the world. “The multitude who believed continued steadfastly in the apostles' teaching and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.” They called each other brother and sister; they greeted one another with a holy kiss; they ministered to the poor. It was a fellowship of living as well as of worship. They were not communal by decree but by the desire to share their goods with their fellow believers. They confidently expected that Jesus would return to complete the establishment of the Father’s kingdom during their generation. This spontaneous sharing of earthly possessions was not a direct feature of Jesus’ teaching; it came about because these men and women so sincerely and so confidently believed that he was to return any day to finish his work and to consummate the kingdom. But the final results of this well-meant experiment in thoughtless brotherly love were disastrous and sorrow-breeding. Thousands of earnest believers sold their property and disposed of all their capital goods and other productive assets. With the passing of time, the dwindling resources of Christian “equal-sharing” came to an end—but the world did not. Very soon the believers at Antioch were taking up a collection to keep their fellow believers at Jerusalem from starving.

194:4.8 In these days they celebrated the Lord’s Supper after the manner of its establishment; that is, they assembled for a social meal of good fellowship and partook of the sacrament at the end of the meal.

194:4.9 At first they baptized in the name of Jesus; it was almost twenty years before they began to baptize in “the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.” Baptism was all that was required for admission into the fellowship of believers. They had no organization as yet; it was simply the Jesus brotherhood.

194:4.10 This Jesus sect was growing rapidly, and once more the Sadducees took notice of them. The Pharisees were little bothered about the situation, seeing that none of the teachings in any way interfered with the observance of the Jewish laws. But the Sadducees began to put the leaders of the Jesus sect in jail until they were prevailed upon to accept the counsel of one of the leading rabbis, Gamaliel, who advised them: “Refrain from these men and let them alone, for if this counsel or this work is of men, it will be overthrown; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them, lest haply you be found even to be fighting against God.” They decided to follow Gamaliel’s counsel, and there ensued a time of peace and quiet in Jerusalem, during which the new gospel about Jesus spread rapidly.

194:4.11 And so all went well in Jerusalem until the time of the coming of the Greeks in large numbers from Alexandria. Two of the pupils of Rodan arrived in Jerusalem and made many converts from among the Hellenists. Among their early converts were Stephen and Barnabas. These able Greeks did not so much have the Jewish viewpoint, and they did not so well conform to the Jewish mode of worship and other ceremonial practices. And it was the doings of these Greek believers that terminated the peaceful relations between the Jesus brotherhood and the Pharisees and Sadducees, Stephen and his Greek associate began to preach more as Jesus taught, and this brought them into immediate conflict with the Jewish rulers. In one of Stephen’s public sermons, when he reached the objectionable part of the discourse, they dispensed with all formalities of trial and proceeded to stone him to death on the spot.

194:4.12 Stephen, the leader of the Greek colony of Jesus’ believers in Jerusalem, thus became the first martyr to the new faith and the specific cause for the formal organization of the early Christian church. This new crisis was met by the recognition that believers could not longer go on as a sect within the Jewish faith. They all agreed that they must separate themselves from unbelievers; and within one month from the death of Stephen the church at Jerusalem had been organized under the leadership of Peter and James the brother of Jesus had been installed as its titular head.

194:4.13 And then broke out the new and relentless persecutions by the Jews, so that the active teachers of the new religion about Jesus, which subsequently at Antioch was called Christianity, went forth to the ends of the empire proclaiming Jesus. In carrying this message, before the time of Paul the leadership was in Greek hands; and these first missionaries, as also the later ones, followed the path of Alexander’s march of former days, going by way of Gaza and Tyre to Antioch and then over Asia Minor to Macedonia, then on to Rome and to the uttermost parts of the empire.




Caino
 

Burning Bush

New member
We would also note that Jesus title as 'Savior' does not mean that he was a blood-sacrifice given to appease the wrath of an angry god, or one who provides 'atonement' in a vicarious sense. The revelators equate such to primitive concepts and outdated belief-systems no longer adequate for the modern age, let alone that such portrayals of God misrepresent his true character.


For more on Creator Sons -

Paradise Creator Sons


pj

Why am I not surprised that the demons would want to do away with the blood, since without the shedding of blood there is no remission for sins. And I'm not even talking about just His literal natural blood, which was a type and shadow of the true.

What arrogance they have! To presume to know better than God and to assess His sacrifice as "primitive"!
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
:up:


"The church, as a social outgrowth of the kingdom, would have been wholly natural and even desirable. The evil of the church was not its existence, but rather that it almost completely supplanted the Jesus concept of the kingdom. Paul’s institutionalized church became a virtual substitute for the kingdom of heaven which Jesus had proclaimed." UB




Caino
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
Why am I not surprised that the demons would want to do away with the blood, since without the shedding of blood there is no remission for sins. And I'm not even talking about just His literal natural blood, which was a type and shadow of the true.

What arrogance they have! To presume to know better than God and to assess His sacrifice as "primitive"!


Human sacrifice was not a part of the original Gospel of Jesus, he taught repentance and faith based spiritual transformation. The new wine was put into the old wine skins, Jesus warned them not to do that.

Blood sacrifice was already well established among the Jews, who rejected Jesus and the Pagans, who accepted Paul’s modified version of Jesus' gospel.

Spiritual salvation is real and experiencable >now<

Blood sacrifice is theoretical, a future hopes, be it ever so barbaric and backwards.




Caino
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Human sacrifice was not a part of the original Gospel of Jesus, he taught repentance and faith based spiritual transformation. The new wine was put into the old wine skins, Jesus warned them not to do that.
You can't even see The Kingdom unless you're born-again. Without partaking of His death, burial and resurrection you are still dead in your sins. That keeps you from being transformed. Once you're transformed or born-again, you are made new. He puts His Spirit in those who are born-again. Your spiritual understanding is darkened because you won't come to The Light.
Blood sacrifice was already well established among the Jews, who rejected Jesus and the Pagans, who accepted Paul’s modified version of Jesus' gospel.
Paul never modified anything. He received revelation from The Spirit of Christ and gave even the other apostles better understanding.
Spiritual salvation is real and experiencable >now<
But not without The Blood.
Blood sacrifice is theoretical, a future hopes, be it ever so barbaric and backwards.
Nope. It's dynamic, real and redeems us RIGHT NOW. The only thing that's barbaric is rejecting His Blood for the 'other gospel' which demons have invented and becoming accursed due to that acceptance of a false gospel.
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
You can't even see The Kingdom unless you're born-again. Without partaking of His death, burial and resurrection you are still dead in your sins. That keeps you from being transformed. Once you're transformed or born-again, you are made new. He puts His Spirit in those who are born-again. Your spiritual understanding is darkened because you won't come to The Light.Paul never modified anything. He received revelation from The Spirit of Christ and gave even the other apostles better understanding. But not without The Blood.Nope. It's dynamic, real and redeems us RIGHT NOW. The only thing that's barbaric is rejecting His Blood for the 'other gospel' which demons have invented and becoming accursed due to that acceptance of a false gospel.

Parts of Jesus' original gospel can be found in the fragmented writings of the NT:


......."her many sins have been forgiven"
....."Your faith has saved you"

44 Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet,(AA) but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45 You did not give me a kiss,(AB) but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. 46 You did not put oil on my head,(AC) but she has poured perfume on my feet. 47 Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little.”

48 Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”(AD)

49 The other guests began to say among themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”

50 Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you;(AE) go in peace.”(AF)

The rejection and murder of an innocent man (the Son of God) not a condition for salvation in Jesus’ real gospel.



Caino
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
The rejection and murder of an innocent man (the Son of God) not a condition for salvation in Jesus’ real gospel.
You've obviously missed the fact that sin requires payment. The wages of sin is: death. And after one dies: one is judged. Without Jesus having paid for your sins, you still owe sin your wages. Those of us who actually believe His Word will never even see death. If you continue to reject Him you will not only see death but you will also be judged and found guilty of your sins. Only His Blood can clease sin. The woman wasn't born-again, she was saved from illness. You need to read the whole Bible and you need to be born-again to even SEE The Kingdom, which I live in and which you're trying to teach me about.
 

Caino

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Banned
You've obviously missed the fact that sin requires payment. The wages of sin is: death. And after one dies: one is judged. Without Jesus having paid for your sins, you still owe sin your wages. Those of us who actually believe His Word will never even see death. If you continue to reject Him you will not only see death but you will also be judged and found guilty of your sins. Only His Blood can clease sin. The woman wasn't born-again, she was saved from illness. You need to read the whole Bible and you need to be born-again to even SEE The Kingdom, which I live in and which you're trying to teach me about.

You've missed the fact that God was already forgiving, he has always been forgiving. God is merciful and Loving. Man made religion created the sacrificial system, not the real God. Jesus said their father was the devil.

"Sin payment" is from evolved religion, Jesus never taught any such thing.

By supporting the Pagan compromise, the new Christian religion about Jesus, you support his death. But even then Jesus asked his Father "forgive them, for they know not what they do."

Paul, his Pagan beliefs and his Pagan followers are the ones who created Christianity, so naturally they interpret Jesus through their primitive, man made religious concepts.


Caino
 
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