The Late Great Urantia Revelation
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freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Knock yourself out
Knock yourself out
For those interested, it is appropriate as to its religious philosophy and doctrine, as it agrees with Judeo-Christian theology and where it differs and expands on such a revelation of God and the cosmos. More care about a more expansive theology than you realize, not all are so limited or biased as yourself as to what is true, and may be just more courageous in their religious studies. I find that an admirable trait. For those not interested, there are hundreds of other threads to engage.
Well, you're just a barrel full of laughs
- there is certainly a place for humor along the path......
It just might behoove you to laugh at your own self, and maybe relax your more rigid beliefs and assumptions,...just a bit. Would that hurt? Let it go
pj
Knock yourself out
For those interested, it is appropriate as to its religious philosophy and doctrine, as it agrees with Judeo-Christian theology and where it differs and expands on such a revelation of God and the cosmos. More care about a more expansive theology than you realize, not all are so limited or biased as yourself as to what is true, and may be just more courageous in their religious studies. I find that an admirable trait. For those not interested, there are hundreds of other threads to engage.
Well, you're just a barrel full of laughs
- there is certainly a place for humor along the path......It just might behoove you to laugh at your own self, and maybe relax your more rigid beliefs and assumptions,...just a bit. Would that hurt? Let it go
pj
You're correct, it's kind of a "Situation Comedy."
Talking about the Cosmos, how's your little green men friends doing?
It's good to see Caino get a vacation. I hope he's able to expand
new horizons so far as his higher conscientiousness is concerned?
I had to turn Caino over to the "Woodshed." He was going too far. I hope
you understand Freelight?
you understand Freelight?
Zeke
Well-known member
We still disagree on this one, Paul's epistles and teachings were sanitized, some ghost written by the Roman cult to teach the historic version from my research into the time period, the rift was most likely wider than even the Galatians letters confrontation exposed concerning the earthly Adams ritualistic religion manufactured He-brewed up out of Romes religious machine to control the illiterate with exoteric fear propaganda still in use today.
The Logos of John was the result of plagiarism from prior proverbs and Psalms gleaned from other cultures beliefs as well so to pit Paul against Jesus is a phantoms gone wild movie.
Luke 17:20-21 matches Paul's inner Christ quit well and shows the Gnostic foundation the Roman cult couldn't stomach.
Which to me the Urantia is just another attempt to push a historic Jesus at the expense of the Gnostic mystic Christ called a heretic motif by bloody Rome.
Freelight without Caino is like, a broken toe without the pain!
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
its all a matter of translation.......
its all a matter of translation.......
Hi zeke,
My point stands however concerning pseudographs.....if Peter himself did not endorse Paul's writings....the claim is merely 'assumed'. The likely dating for the 2 epistles of Peter is still decades after his death, and much evidence for being pseudographical. They are therefore the product of religious writers of their time....containing the doctrinal reflections of the writers.
In other Pauline studies I share a more Jewish based Jesus, which does conflict with Paul's anti-law teaching, so the differences between Jesus and Paul's teaching is evident comparing the gospels with his letters.
Now as to universal gnostic spiritual teaching.....both are recorded as holding to the 'kingdom within, the 'indwelling Spirit', the 'inner light', the principle of 'faith', the law of love fulfilling all, etc. These universal truths, laws and principles ever hold.
We've already covered the UB on Paul, and its comparisons with Jesus teaching and its criticisms. One isnt pitted against another, it is simply recognized that Jesus came to show souls how to practice true religion, by men living the religion of Jesus, while Paul's gospel was more a religion about Jesus where he also added his own ideas, concepts and personal revelations into the mix.
The UB wholly affirms a historical Jesus who bestowed himself upon earth, who came to reveal God to man, and win his title back as planetary Prince rectifying the damage done by the Lucifer Rebellion. All this is in the book
Otherwise as I've shared elsewhere....I have no major problem with Paul, but only when I see excessive worship of his person and ministry, taken out of context from the view of truth that is universal and cosmic. Jesus ought to have a more appropriate worship and veneration if he is truly God incarnate, so there is something to our consideration of he being 'historical' or mere 'mythology' however thats interpreted.
pj
its all a matter of translation.......
Hi zeke,
My point stands however concerning pseudographs.....if Peter himself did not endorse Paul's writings....the claim is merely 'assumed'. The likely dating for the 2 epistles of Peter is still decades after his death, and much evidence for being pseudographical. They are therefore the product of religious writers of their time....containing the doctrinal reflections of the writers.
In other Pauline studies I share a more Jewish based Jesus, which does conflict with Paul's anti-law teaching, so the differences between Jesus and Paul's teaching is evident comparing the gospels with his letters.
Now as to universal gnostic spiritual teaching.....both are recorded as holding to the 'kingdom within, the 'indwelling Spirit', the 'inner light', the principle of 'faith', the law of love fulfilling all, etc. These universal truths, laws and principles ever hold.
We've already covered the UB on Paul, and its comparisons with Jesus teaching and its criticisms. One isnt pitted against another, it is simply recognized that Jesus came to show souls how to practice true religion, by men living the religion of Jesus, while Paul's gospel was more a religion about Jesus where he also added his own ideas, concepts and personal revelations into the mix.
The UB wholly affirms a historical Jesus who bestowed himself upon earth, who came to reveal God to man, and win his title back as planetary Prince rectifying the damage done by the Lucifer Rebellion. All this is in the book
Otherwise as I've shared elsewhere....I have no major problem with Paul, but only when I see excessive worship of his person and ministry, taken out of context from the view of truth that is universal and cosmic. Jesus ought to have a more appropriate worship and veneration if he is truly God incarnate, so there is something to our consideration of he being 'historical' or mere 'mythology' however thats interpreted.
pj
journey
New member
The ub is NOT a source or authority for truth, so it makes no difference what the ub says. I've never met a Christian who worships the Apostle Paul. It is true that Paul's writings revealed exactly what Jesus Christ wanted - the Gospel of the Grace of God. In other words, why did Jesus Christ willingly go to the cross and what changed at the cross? This wasn't a message intended just for the Jews like so many messages given by the Apostles to the Circumcision (Jews). The CROSS is the biggest and most precious event in the Holy Bible. I could care less that the ub disagrees with this stance. The stance of the ub is not material because it's FICTION. The real and TRUE story is in the Holy Bible.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Truth has nothing to fear......
Truth has nothing to fear......
A reader of the material will learn to decide that for himself, having investigated, drawing his own conclusions. Truth is living, dynamic and spiritually discerned. Since you only have preconceptions and refuse an honest reading of the text (the previous challenge of researching the first 5 papers was refused)...you are unqualified to make a judgment. Truth is truth wherever it is found, and a wise person will earn such discernment thru research.
Jesus carried out his earthly ministry in selfless service so he bore whatever grievances and suffering would be endured in that endeavor. The cross was his opportunity to prove that death has no power, as his resurrection proved such giving man hope of eternal life and immortality. The cross did have its significance as explained in the papers here.
The UB covers the passion, crucifixion, resurrection, ascension of Jesus in great detail. Until you discover that info. you cannot engage in an informed or intelligent debate, let alone a dialogue. My engagement here is for other readers who might be interested in honest discussion and truth regarding the info. in the papers. It could be a rewarding endeavor to learn something new about Jesus, a view that might make more sense when seen from a greater cosmic perspective.
See: Why did Christ die for our sins? (A UB perspective)
We've covered this before....readers can use the thread search feature to look for subjects already covered
Thats your problem, a stubborn refusal to research anything beyond your rigid belief system. You keep calling a book you havent read 'fiction', while I've challenged you elsewhere to prove such, and to also prove that any of the bible is not fiction. Lets apply the same standard.
All religious texts are subject to various rules of 'textual-criticism' yet their essential and ultimate value lies in their ability to communicate eternal truths, laws and principles....using the language available, limited in some respects to the terms given. Such is the challenge and versatility of language, an art in itself.
pj
Truth has nothing to fear......
A reader of the material will learn to decide that for himself, having investigated, drawing his own conclusions. Truth is living, dynamic and spiritually discerned. Since you only have preconceptions and refuse an honest reading of the text (the previous challenge of researching the first 5 papers was refused)...you are unqualified to make a judgment. Truth is truth wherever it is found, and a wise person will earn such discernment thru research.
Jesus carried out his earthly ministry in selfless service so he bore whatever grievances and suffering would be endured in that endeavor. The cross was his opportunity to prove that death has no power, as his resurrection proved such giving man hope of eternal life and immortality. The cross did have its significance as explained in the papers here.
The UB covers the passion, crucifixion, resurrection, ascension of Jesus in great detail. Until you discover that info. you cannot engage in an informed or intelligent debate, let alone a dialogue. My engagement here is for other readers who might be interested in honest discussion and truth regarding the info. in the papers. It could be a rewarding endeavor to learn something new about Jesus, a view that might make more sense when seen from a greater cosmic perspective.
See: Why did Christ die for our sins? (A UB perspective)
We've covered this before....readers can use the thread search feature to look for subjects already covered
Thats your problem, a stubborn refusal to research anything beyond your rigid belief system. You keep calling a book you havent read 'fiction', while I've challenged you elsewhere to prove such, and to also prove that any of the bible is not fiction. Lets apply the same standard.
All religious texts are subject to various rules of 'textual-criticism' yet their essential and ultimate value lies in their ability to communicate eternal truths, laws and principles....using the language available, limited in some respects to the terms given. Such is the challenge and versatility of language, an art in itself.
pj
Aimiel
Well-known member
Since being Christian means having been washed in The Blood of The Lamb, the Urantia demonic doctrine has NOTHING to do with Christianity, since it tosses Jesus' Blood out the window. Jesus came to shed His Blood. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission for sins. Only Jesus' Blood can cleanse one and make one spotless. The Urantia nonsense is diametrically opposed to Christianity, no matter how you slice it.
Zeke
Well-known member
I would also prescribe to the harmony being a product of pseudographical writings, the rift between them was not as cordial as it is portrayed by the historic version.
Even this Jewish assertion is suspect seeing the sayings of the logos/Jesus are found in variable other writings that are not Jewish, the Christ being an ethnic or nationally based is traditions of men as far as I am concerned, at least the Christ of Paul is all things to all people being a more able to be universally applied without the problem caused by one people claiming ethnic ownership to a nameless spirit supposed to be the Creator of all.
And this had to be snuffed out by the historic perversion that was forced unto the historic record that doesn't exist, by persecution of the Gnostic Christ believers which was a part of the doctrinal teaching until the third century when they had their books burnt and the teachers labeled heretic by the power driven Roman church that gave you the carnally birthed Jewish Jesus ending in a literal blood sacrifice .
Yet Paul's Christ was first, the Jewish version came later in the mix etc.....and the teaching said to be from his lips was already being taught prior to his birth and resurrection by Rome.
The UB wholly affirms a historical Jesus who bestowed himself upon earth, who came to reveal God to man, and win his title back as planetary Prince rectifying the damage done by the Lucifer Rebellion. All this is in the book
Just another exoteric OZ tale with Jesus waiting in the emerald city, the inward road (which this Jesus also pointed to Luke 17:20-21) make him a principle that is birthed in man, not a Messiah idol of men who need a exoteric hero.
I have no problem with either teaching, neither of them are better or worse to me seeing the letter is just a shadow for us to glean the hidden intent behind the drama and allegorical tale that they tell.
:kookoo:
Zeke
Well-known member
Keep winding paper saint GM, someday it might start. Historical phantom followers
Keep winding paper saint GM, someday it might start. Historical phantom followers
You've lost your mind, best to go look for it?
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Reconsidering the 'concept' of 'blood-atonement'.....
Reconsidering the 'concept' of 'blood-atonement'.....
We've been over the concept of 'blood-atonement' many times before. There are good reasons to challenge, question and re-consider its validity.
As far as what the term 'Christian' means, that's debatable...but generally it refers to someone who believes in Christ and his teachings. It is not necessarily limited to strict definition of having to believe he came to DIE as a blood-sacrifice, and focusing on this as the main or only reason that he came, as this is only one point of view, and is unnecessary, since Jesus from a UB perspective bestowed himself on this planet to reveal 'God' to us mortals, proclaim the kingdom of heaven (which centers upon the truth that God is our Father, and we are children of this One God), and in this spiritual recognition, we are born from above (of the Spirit) and can thereby live as citizens in God's kingdom, in a universal brotherhood. Note that in this understanding of the 'good news'....there is no necessity or requirement for bloodshed, neither a 'blood-atonement' to buy men back to God, since God is already our loving Heavenly Father, and does not need to be bribed or have his love 'purchased' in any way. God's love shines on all, good and wicked alike. This is Jesus teaching.
Again,....there is no reason or logic to believe that man's way back to God is ONLY thru a 'blood-sacrifice' of his divine Son, since we've questioned/challenged this concept and its principle many times before. Jesus giving his soul-life on the cross, is indeed an eternal symbol of his loving devotion and service to man, showing the power of love to endure and transcend all suffering, no matter how much man rejects the divine love. Love is more powerful than death. The UB and most all other spiritualist teachings accept these essential and universal truths, about the Fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of Man, and that man comes to God thru repentance, turning to him, and is transformed thereby ....to live a religion of loving service to God and others. This is the fundamental law upon which every other law is upheld, the way of the kingdom.
~*~*~
See:
Jewish understanding of blood atonement (Lev. 17:11)
Redefining 'atonement'
Blood-free atonement
Proper Perspective
~*~*~
pj
Reconsidering the 'concept' of 'blood-atonement'.....
We've been over the concept of 'blood-atonement' many times before. There are good reasons to challenge, question and re-consider its validity.
As far as what the term 'Christian' means, that's debatable...but generally it refers to someone who believes in Christ and his teachings. It is not necessarily limited to strict definition of having to believe he came to DIE as a blood-sacrifice, and focusing on this as the main or only reason that he came, as this is only one point of view, and is unnecessary, since Jesus from a UB perspective bestowed himself on this planet to reveal 'God' to us mortals, proclaim the kingdom of heaven (which centers upon the truth that God is our Father, and we are children of this One God), and in this spiritual recognition, we are born from above (of the Spirit) and can thereby live as citizens in God's kingdom, in a universal brotherhood. Note that in this understanding of the 'good news'....there is no necessity or requirement for bloodshed, neither a 'blood-atonement' to buy men back to God, since God is already our loving Heavenly Father, and does not need to be bribed or have his love 'purchased' in any way. God's love shines on all, good and wicked alike. This is Jesus teaching.
Again,....there is no reason or logic to believe that man's way back to God is ONLY thru a 'blood-sacrifice' of his divine Son, since we've questioned/challenged this concept and its principle many times before. Jesus giving his soul-life on the cross, is indeed an eternal symbol of his loving devotion and service to man, showing the power of love to endure and transcend all suffering, no matter how much man rejects the divine love. Love is more powerful than death. The UB and most all other spiritualist teachings accept these essential and universal truths, about the Fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of Man, and that man comes to God thru repentance, turning to him, and is transformed thereby ....to live a religion of loving service to God and others. This is the fundamental law upon which every other law is upheld, the way of the kingdom.
~*~*~
See:
Jewish understanding of blood atonement (Lev. 17:11)
Redefining 'atonement'
Blood-free atonement
Proper Perspective
~*~*~
pj
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RevTestament
New member
John 12:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Since it's pivotal, necessary and the one central theme of Christianity, Christians cannot help but keep the subject front-and-center, especially when it's attacked and slighted by another cult.
The 'goodness' is what I question. Why attack the one thing that Jesus came to do? His Blood is the only way that we can defeat Satan. Obviously, demons are going to attack this Truth. It's central to every demonic doctrine.
Pretending to adhere to His Teachings but tossing out The Blood isn't adherence, it's the opposite.
Actually, Christianity IS limited to being centered on Christ's Blood and 'we' are NOT children of God without The Blood of The Lamb.
What you describe isn't Christianity, it's 'another' gospel and perfectly illustrates demonic doctrine.
While God DOES love every soul, that doesn't make them acceptable in His Sight. To be accepted, one must apply The Blood of The Lamb.
Your questions are welcome but your challenges are invalid.
His Blood was shed as a ransom for many (the believers) just as He said.
While true, it isn't axiomatic nor a valid principle. Love is greater than hate. Life is greater than death. These are axiomatic. These are valid principles. Death is a spirit and an enemy of God who will one day be placed at Jesus' Feet. He defeated Death at the cross, but it takes a Blood-washed believer to place that spirit under subjection to the authority that Christ gave us through faith in His Name and His Blood. The Life Eternal that is in Christ is what defeated Death. The perfect faithfulness of God's Only Begotten Son overcame the rebellion of Satan and all his followers. Now our job, as The Body of Christ, is to place all those rebellious enemies of God at His Feet.
No. There is no 'brotherhood' of man without The Blood. All have gone their own way and sought their own pleasure. Only by having our sins washed away by The Blood can men be acceptable in God's Sight. All the tearful repentance in the world cannot erase anything. Christ's Blood cleanses from sin. Completely. Inside and out.
Zeke
Well-known member
The divine soul, the corn of wheat in tombed in a body of matter/ flesh is in the same state as a seed lying dormant in the field until the spring rain awakens it. Which is the same teaching found in the Egyptian culture, death being a reference to the soul in a tomb of flesh in a state of divine amnesia Luke 15:24 as the earthly man, when the spiritual birth happens the Divine seed starts to mature, the natural man must become less like John who represented the best born of the flesh!! (Matt 11:11) stated when speaking of the Spiritual seed 1Cor 15:45 called Jesus Galatians 4:26.
Zeke
Well-known member
You have yet to find you're mind, artificial straw man pretending to be a living being, false faith and still in paper training mode, keep majoring in traditional :kookoo: ism.
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