The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

[rene]

If this is indeed the same thing that Mormon's say - then on this point they are RIGHT. Not that I am Mormon - - not that such has anything to do with the comments - -

What is a real shame is how some like to pick and choose vs. just following the bible and the teachings of Jesus. No matter how you try to sidestep the issue - that is what your doing - doing the two-step vs. directly looking at the scripture and see how it doesn't begin to compare what it is that you want to promote.

 

[c.moore]

Heb.10:22}
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith,
having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience,
and our bodies washed with pure water.
with pure water
not the Carnal Water of Johns Baptism
Paul Says
Eph.5:25" -------------------------- Christ also loved the church,
and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it
with the washing of water
by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church,
not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing;
but that it should be holy and without blemish




------Question------

Did the Sprinkling, or the Washing of the body, with the
Ashes of the Red Heifer


Cleanse or make holy the commers there unto perfect in the sight of God
or as Herbrews Saith
There is no law nor Carnal Ordaiance that can offer man salvation,
nor cleanse


all Baptism in the Church is as the Pharisees of old
"White Washed Sepulchres"

You go down a dry devil,
and come up a wet devil

There ain't no magic in the Ashes of the Red Heifer:
There ain't no magic in the Jocobs Tea:
There ain't no magic in the water:

 

[rene]

I see that you add to scripture something not suggested.

I also see that in your ‘pick and choose’ approach that you ignore these verses – and still haven’t addressed how your view is opposite of what is within these verses:

Gal 3:26 For you* are all sons [and daughters] of God by means of faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many as were baptized [or, immersed] into Christ put on [or, clothed yourselves with] Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is no Jew nor Greek, there is no slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you* are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 Now since you* [are] Christ's, consequently, you* are seed [fig., descendents] of Abraham and heirs according to promise.

Mat 28:18 And having approached, Jesus spoke to them, saying, "All authority in heaven and on earth was given to Me.
Mat 28:19 "When you* have gone, make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to be observing all [things], as many as I commanded you*. And listen! I am with you* all the days, until the conclusion of the age! So be it!" [Gr. amen, and throughout NT].

Rom 6:3 Or do you* fail to understand that we, as many as were baptized [or, immersed] into Christ Jesus, were baptized into His death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore, we were buried together with Him through thebaptism [or, immersion] into death , so that even as Christ was raised up from [the] dead through the glory of the Father, so also we should walk about [fig., conduct ourselves] in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have become planted together [fig., united] [with Him] in the likeness of His death, certainly we also will be [in the likeness] of the resurrection;
Rom 6:6 knowing this, that our former person was crucified together [with Him], so that the body of sin shall be made useless [or, pass away], [so that] we [are] no longer to be serving as a slave to sin.

You are confused in you have pasted links to things a few pages back and suggested that they reflect what is taught within the Church of Christ – when it was for the ICoC with suggestions that such supported your claim against those within the CoC when it clearly didn’t.

A few pages before that, you call the teaching found within scripture as taught by Jesus minor – which clearly goes against His teaching.

False claims have been repeatedly made about me, those within the CoC by you – and STILL you just keep them blinders on, never address the questions supported by scripture that more than call into questions your approach.

Your suggestion within all these posts is – ignore what Jesus taught, forget about the scriptures that don’t go along with your views, instead follow what it is that you promote. It is just this sort of attitude that I found so well reflected within the Charismatic movement that had me leave it – everyone thinks that THEY have the ‘heavy revie’ and ignore or suggest that the scripture means something else when verses can be pointed to that declare differently. Reminds me of when I finally got off my duff and got into the bible and studied out the “give and it shall be given unto you� portion of scripture that so many that follow your line of thought love to suggest as a means to ‘get money’ – when the verses around it clearly show that it is speaking to forgiveness. Whole ministries were set up, books sold, with that false approach to that portion of scripture – no different than the approach that your taking on this topic.

2Ti 2:15 Be eager [or, diligent] to present yourself approved to God [as] a worker with no need to be ashamed, cutting straight [fig., teaching accurately; or, interpreting correctly] the word of truth.

 

[c.moore]

Rene

It is good if you study and meditate on all of 1 Cor 15 and you will see Paul mention not about getting wet a need to get salvation.
Don`t follow me put at least lesson to Paul who never walked in the flesh with Christ but only stood on faith alone.
Maybe you think paul is disobedient and has another gospel.



1Co:15:1: Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co:15:2: By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co:15:3: For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co:15:4: And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
1Co:15:5: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
1Co:15:6: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1Co:15:7: After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
1Co:15:8: And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
1Co:15:9: For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
1Co:15:10: But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
1Co:15:11: Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
1Co:15:12: Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Co:15:13: But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1Co:15:14: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
1Co:15:15: Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
1Co:15:16: For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co:15:17: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co:15:18: Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1Co:15:19: If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
1Co:15:20: But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Co:15:21: For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co:15:22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co:15:23: But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co:15:24: Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co:15:25: For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co:15:26: The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co:15:27: For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co:15:28: And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
1Co:15:29: Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
1Co:15:30: And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
1Co:15:31: I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
1Co:15:32: If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.
1Co:15:33: Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
1Co:15:34: Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
1Co:15:35: But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co:15:36: Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

You seem to reject the Eternal nature of Christ and the Eternal God also, and base your salvation on the religious outward apperance and religious old testiment works.
We are saved by grace not by a water down ritual to get saved or to qualify to be saved.

I would like to see one Bible verse that says righteousness is imputed by Baptism water baptism!

if baptism is required for salvation then Jesus lied to the thief on the cross.

Jesus assured the thief that he would be in paradise with him. He was never baptised. He was on the cross.

Baptism doesn't mean salvation. I know several people who only went through baptism because they thought it was what people did. They cared nothing for God or even talking about Him. Only several years later did some of them actually admit this, even though we had kinda suspected, and commit their life to Christ. Baptism has no power if the person is not willing. Baptism cannot save you or anybody else. Jesus can save you however!

The Apostle Paul made it quite clear salvation is by faith alone. He writes: Having been justified by faith we can have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Did Paul not say "having been justified by faith" (Romans 5:1). How are we justified according to Paul? By Baptism. Nope, try again. By obeying all God's commandements? Nope, try again. By faith in Christ. YES!!!!

Note that Paul did not mention that justification comes by the act of baptism or obedience to God's commandments. It comes "by faith".
I would think perfection would do it. But the problem is wer're utterly sinful (Romans 3:23) we cannot attain perfection. By the way the Book of James was written to believers those whom already were saved by Christ. Yes, believers who know Christ should have good works. But good works does not save (Eph. 2:8-9).
To instrust a believer that water baptism should be performed before he can claim eternal security, is in my opinion adding to the "Grace thru Faith" Gospel. A christian that thinks, in any way, that there are commands that he needs to fulfill in order to enjoy salvation, has moved from the ground of Grace to law.
Did you know that we have been freed from all forms of law. Because the law applies to a man as long as he lives, but when he dies he is free. And you have died with Christ?
But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Gal. 3:23 (KJV)
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Gal. 3:24 (KJV)
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Gal. 3:25 (KJV)
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the REMISSION OF SINS that are past, through the forbearance of God; Rom. 3:25
To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Rom. 3:26
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Rom. 3:27

As we can SEE it is not ... be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the REMISSION OF SINS, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38.... which is a work!
If we read Romans 5 we can see how we are baptized into his death. You say it is by obeying in water baptism but this is not what Paul said.

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: Rom. 5:1 (KJV)
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Rom. 5:2 (KJV)

Faith is required not water baptism which you agreed was a "work". If a work is required then salvation must be earned.

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. Rom. 5:9 (KJV)

We are justified by His blood and the only way that can be received is by faith.

But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. Rom. 5:15 (KJV)

We can not add to the finished work of Christ and this "gift" must be received "freely" or it is no longer a gift.

For as by one man?s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Rom. 5:19 (KJV)

It is not "our" obedience but by the obedience of "one" so that the gift may be "free".

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Rom. 6:3 (KJV)

Notice that it says baptized "into Jesus" not into "water". How are we to get into Jesus?...For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body 1 Cor. 12:13 (KJV)

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Rom. 6:4 (KJV)

Here it says "into death" not "water" . In other words when we are baptized by the Spirit we are in His body and we died with Him and it is received through "faith".
Baptism is not the Gospel message. The Gospel is centered on the person of Jesus Christ not some act involving water.

Baptism is commanded not for salvation though. Just as we are commanded to evangelize. If you evangelize does not mean you have attained salvation. Rene your theology is quite flawed. Your putting the cart before the horse. Before one can obey the commandements you need the power and presence of Christ first. Jesus made it quite clear "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5). You need Jesus first then you can walk in obedience.

AMEN!

 

[rene]

Who was 1st Corinthians written to? The unsaved, those outside of the church that have need to know how and what to follow of the teaching of Jesus to become part of that body? - or - Saved people already in relationship with Jesus thru following His teaching?

Why the need to teach on baptism to people that already followed the teaching as Jesus instructed? Those that already followed His teaching as instructed to be done?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that what you see as a 'point' is not one at all.

Are you back to rejecting the words of Jesus below with suggestions that it doesn't need to be obeyed and it is a choice??

Mat 28:18 And coming up Jesus talked with them, saying, All authority in Heaven and on earth was given to Me.
Mat 28:19 Then having gone, disciple all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all things, whatever I commanded you. And, behold, I am with you all the days until the completion of the age. Amen.

 

[c.moore]

Originally posted by rene

Who was 1st Corinthians written to? The unsaved, those outside of the church that have need to know how and what to follow of the teaching of Jesus to become part of that body? - or - Saved people already in relationship with Jesus thru following His teaching?

Why the need to teach on baptism to people that already followed the teaching as Jesus instructed? Those that already followed His teaching as instructed to be done?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that what you see as a 'point' is not one at all.

Are you back to rejecting the words of Jesus below with suggestions that it doesn't need to be obeyed and it is a choice??

Mat 28:18 And coming up Jesus talked with them, saying, All authority in Heaven and on earth was given to Me.
Mat 28:19 Then having gone, disciple all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all things, whatever I commanded you. And, behold, I am with you all the days until the completion of the age. Amen.

Have you read all of 1 Cor 15????
It is not a baptism message of salvation it is a gospel of faith that get us saved born again and one in Christ, then we do the rest of the religious works or obedience after we are saved.

You can`t put the cart before the horse and expect to go some where.:kookoo:

 

[rene]

You evidently are not grasping the point I am making. I shall try again.

To whom are the letters which we later tiled books within the bible within what is called the new testament written - unbelievers or believers?

Believers. What have believers of Jesus done?

Followed Jesus.

What did Jesus instruct to be taught and be part of a new believers being disciples per Jesus?

Baptism.

Do believers have faith in Jesus and His teachings? YES! Did they follow the teachings of Jesus thru whom all blessings flow? YES! Because of this relationship is the grace of God experienced within the life of a disciple/follower of Jesus? YES!

Again, read the words of Jesus:

Mat 28:18 And having approached, Jesus spoke to them, saying, "All authority in heaven and on earth was given to Me.
Mat 28:19 "When you* have gone, make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to be observing all [things], as many as I commanded you*. And listen! _I_ am with you* all the days, until the conclusion of the age! So be it!" [Gr. amen, and throughout NT].

Not pick and choose, not the buffet approach to the gospel - - ALL. ALL are to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. What part of ALL do you not understand?

 

[c.moore]

Rene
let me say it again, you are putting the cart before the horses.

Yes, we all should get baptized , and we all should tell nation and etc, but do things in the right order and in reasoniings, and logical.

We do all the things you mention because we first Have Him in us and that is done by accepting Him and having the Blood of Jesus wash us from our sins so we instantly become sons and daughter in Christ, THEN we do the rest like baptism , and we freely want to do, and obey, and even do works


.BTW Rene i have a private chat line where we can chat live.

it is :http://www.chatzy.com/102557778680

 

[rene]

Moore, let ME say it again - You need to just read the words of the bible vs. following what evidently you are following which is not supported by scripture - as I have repeatedly shown.

Jesus set the order. His words which speak to baptism copied here more than any other verse within the bible I would venture to say.

Exactly what IS it about ALL that you can't seem to grasp??

 

[c.moore]

Originally posted by rene

Moore, let ME say it again - You need to just read the words of the bible vs. following what evidently you are following which is not supported by scripture - as I have repeatedly shown.

Jesus set the order. His words which speak to baptism copied here more than any other verse within the bible I would venture to say.

Exactly what IS it about ALL that you can't seem to grasp??

Isn`t 1 Cor 15 scriptures???

Do you have something against Paul who spoke to many mislead believers, and the church ?

the pass word to that chat site is essex

 

[rene]

1 Cor. 15 ISN'T speaking of baptism. That isn't even what the chapter is about! It is addressing problems that had arose about resurrection, that such is a fruit within the life of a follower of the teachings of Jesus!

Now how in the WORLD do you think that such is going to support your stand against the teachings of Jesus in Matthew 28:18-2o about baptism??

AGAIN - what part of ALL is it that you don't understand within Matthew 28:18-20??

Mat 28:18 And having approached, Jesus spoke to them, saying, "All authority in heaven and on earth was given to Me.
Mat 28:19 "When you* have gone, make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to be observing all [things], as many as I commanded you*. And listen! _I_ am with you* all the days, until the conclusion of the age! So be it!" [Gr. amen, and throughout NT].

 

[c.moore]

I knwo it is not baptism that why I ask you to read it because it is about salvation completed by faith alone.

 

[rene]

Moore - - I think that you really need to sit down and really STUDY the bible - - and YOU need to sit down and really READ what 1 Cor. 15 is about.....

Where in the WORLD are you getting this stuff from?? If you don't even know/didn't grasp what the teaching is about within chapter 15 of first Corinthians - - it is no WONDER your missing the point I have shown repeatedly in Matthew 28 and the teaching of baptism!

 

[c.moore]

1Co:15:1: Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co:15:2: By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co:15:3: For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co:15:4: And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
1Co:15:5: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
1Co:15:6: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1Co:15:7: After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
1Co:15:8: And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
1Co:15:9: For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
1Co:15:10: But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me

Are you saying Paul was not talking about grace???

Are you missing the first verse what Paul gospel is explained to the brether??

1Co:15:11: Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
1Co:15:12: Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Co:15:13: But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1Co:15:14: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
1Co:15:15: Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
1Co:15:16: For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

It is about Christ who saves us not baptism.

it is his death burial , and resurrection which should be the good news and our gospel.

So I question your added gospel Rene.

BTW to watch the video or read more things I have scanned from my teacher you can go to my yahoo e-mail address which is:


http://www.yahoo.com

go to the mail

then type in the name disjockey_1

the pass word: germany

go to the inbox once you are in and download the attachement to watch the video with my teacher and myself interview on german tv but it is in english i took out the translation .
It is so far only 10 minutes but I will put the rest on another e-mail which will continue the interview which is 53 minutes together.

Let me know what you think of the video`s, and what I scanned.

This is open to all to see until I get it to be shown live on my web site.

BTW I have a live chat which is open now to chat live to me .
It is :
http://www.chatzy.com/102557778680

the pass word is: essex

Come and join in so we can discuss more live and up todate.

I check every hour on the hour to see if someone is there.

 

[rene]

You really DON'T KNOW the topic of 1 Cor. 15!!

Overview
1Cor. 15:1, By Christ’s resurrection, 1Cor. 15:12. he proves the necessity of our resurrection, against all such as deny the resurrection of the body; 1Cor. 15:21, The fruit, 1Cor. 15:35. and the manner thereof; 1Cor. 15:51, and of the changing of them that shall be found alive at the last day.

1 Corinthians is about several topics that the church in Cornith was having:

After Paul's departure from Corinth, Apollos, commended by the Ephesian church, was sent to labor there. Notwithstanding his efficiency he involuntarily became the cause of division in the church, as the nucleus of a party which preferred his polished rhetoric to the plainer utterances of Paul (1Cor 3:4, 1Cor 3:5).

Besides this, the characteristic sensuous and pleasure-loving tendencies of the Corinthians began to assert themselves within the church. The majority of the converts were of a low social grade, many of them slaves, and the seductions of the gay city often proved too strong for resistance.

The report of these evils, brought to Ephesus by Apollos on his return from Corinth, called out a letter from Paul which is lost, but which is referred to in 1Cor 5:9. Additional tidings came in a letter from the church to Paul, asking advice on the following points:

1. Celibacy and marriage. Was married life a lower condition than celibacy, or was it wrong in itself? Were marriages allowable between Christians and heathen? Should a Christian wife or husband abandon a heathen spouse?

2. Meats offered to idols. Idol sacrifices were festivals. Gentile converts refused to abandon the society of their heathen friends, and mingled with them at the idol feasts; while a meal at a public festival was a substantial help to the poor. Might Christians attend these festivals? Might they buy in the market the resold meat which had been offered to idols?

3. Rules in assemblies. Should men cover their heads? Should women appear uncovered? Might women speak and teach in public?

4. Spiritual gifts. Which was the more important, speaking with tongues or preaching? What should be done when several began to speak at once?

5. The resurrection. Some maintained that it was purely spiritual and that it was already past.

6. They also desired to hear something more about the collection for the poor in Judaea, and to have Apollos sent back.
The bearers of the letter, Stephanas, Fortunatus, and Achaicus, together with those of the household of Chloe (1Cor 1:11), also brought tidings of the factions which had divided the church and the quarrels over the different preachers. Certain Judaic teachers had come, with commendatory letters from Jerusalem, claiming the authority of Peter and impugning that of Paul, declaring that Peter was the true head of the Christian Church and Paul an interloper. A fourth distinct party is supposed by some to be indicated by the words “I of Christ� (see on 1Cor 1:10). It also appeared that the assemblies of the church had become disorderly; that the agapae and the eucharist were scenes of gluttony, brawling, and drunkenness; while the gatherings for worship were thrown into confusion by the simultaneous speaking of those who professed the gift of tongues. Women were speaking unveiled in these assemblies. One prominent church-member was living criminally with his stepmother.

On the receipt of this letter Paul abandoned his intended visit to Corinth, sent Titus to inform the church of his change of plan and to arrange for the collection, and dictated to Sosthenes the first epistle to the Corinthians. Notwithstanding the subscription of the letter, “written from Philippi,� a mistake which grew out of 1Cor 16:5, it was written at Ephesus, as appears from 1Cor 16:8, 1Cor 16:19. He begins by stating his complaints against the church (1:10-11:20). He then answers the questions contained in their letter: Marriage (7:1-40); Sacrificial feasts (1Cor 8:1-13). From this he diverges to the insinuations against his character and authority, noticing the charge based upon his refusal to receive pecuniary support, and asserting his unselfish devotion to the Gospel (9). He returns to the sacrificial feasts (10). Then he passes to the regulation of the assemblies (11). The different spiritual gifts and their mutual relation are discussed in ch. 12, and Love is shown to be greater and more enduring than all gifts (1Cor 13:1-13). The subject of speaking with tongues is then taken up, and the superiority of prophecy to the gift of tongues is asserted (14:1-40). Ch. 15 discusses the resurrection, and the epistle concludes with references to certain personal and incidental matters, including the collection.

Authorities are generally agreed in placing the date of the epistle a.d. 57. Its authenticity is conceded on all hands.

The key-note of the epistle is struck in two correlated thoughts - the supreme headship of Christ, and the union of believers as one body in and with Him. The former thought finds expression in Paul's humble disclaimer of all merely personal authority, and of all right to a hearing save as Christ's agent and mouthpiece. The power of preaching resides in its theme - Christ crucified - and not in its philosophic wisdom nor in the personal culture of its preachers. The gifts and graces of the Church are due to Christ alone. The other thought is the standing confutation and rebuke of all the errors and abuses which have invaded the Church. Faction, fornication, litigation, fellowship with idolaters - all are sufficiently condemned by the fact that they break the sacred tie between the Church and Christ, and between individuals and the Church. Union in Christ implies divine order in the Church. The sexes fall into their true relation. The subordinations of the heavenly hierarchies are perpetuated in the Church. Confusion is banished from public worship, and the mystery of the eucharist is expounded in the mutual love and helpfulness of the participants. Diversities of spiritual gifts are harmonized and utilized through their relation to the one body and the informing power of one divine Spirit - the Spirit of love. Christian expediency, involving individual sacrifice for the common welfare, becomes an authoritative principle. This unity finds its crowning exhibition in the resurrection, in which believers share the resurrection of their Lord, and enter into final and perfect communion with His glorified life.

It has been truthfully said that no portion of the New Testament discusses so directly the moral problems of that age or of our own. Many of the same questions emerge in the social and church-life of modern times. Such are the rally of cliques round popular preachers; the antithesis of asceticism and christian liberty; of christian zeal and christian wisdom; the true relation of the sexes and the proper position and function of woman in the Church; the assertion of individual inspiration against the canons of christian decency; the antagonism between individualism and the subordination of the members to the body; the resurrection in the light of modern science; aestheticism and morals.

No epistle of the New Testament, therefore, should be more carefully studied by the modern pastor.

So WHERE within any of 1 Corinthians does it state ANYWHERE that baptism is not needed, something that one can approach with the buffet approach of pick and choose what one is going to follow of the teachings of Jesus?? WHERE??

How does ANYTHING within not just the portion of scripture, but ANY SCRIPTURE that you are attempting to use to support your teaching that is not the same as what Jesus instructed in Matthew 28:18-20 that baptism is optional?? Where is this written within the BIBLE - not your view - not your personal thoughts - but from within scripture. Chapter and verse.

 

[c.moore]

Do you think Paul had another gospel??

Was Paul message a water baptismo gospel of Christ???

Let me help you no, it was a faith , and grace salvation message of the good news through Christ Jesus not baptism.

 

[rene]

STILL not answering the question with the requested scriptures that state what you suggest. I know what *I* call such that attempt to support such in such a manner - what is it that you call someone that makes claims but can't support them?? What sort of teaching is it that one is giving if not supported from scripture??

Listen - in ALL the replies here - I have seen everyone saying that salvation is thru Jesus. None have been supporting that salvation is thru baptism as was falsely claimed. What has repeatedly been pointed out that for one to be a follower of Jesus means just that - they follow the teachings of Jesus, His instructions, the very same one that the apostles taught as they were instructed by Him.

It is now you alone that are making the stand that one can ignore - make use of the buffet approach to the gospel, pick and choose what they want vs. just following - teachings that Jesus instructed to be followed.

Is a person a Christian - in Christ Jesus - that doesn't follow His teaching?

2Pe 2:1 But false prophets were also among the people, as also false teachers will be among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, and denying the Master who has bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves.

Do you have ANY THOUGHT as to whom these words came from within the bible? HINT - it is the apostle that you keep claiming supports your view of no need to baptize.

Gal 3:27 For as many as were baptized [or, immersed] into Christ put on [or, clothed yourselves with] Christ.

So much for the claim that Paul in some way supports the claims that you make - that you can't back up with scripture - in his own inspired writings. The very same teaching as Jesus instucted to be followed - is the same one that he talks about within letters to those that really are following the teachings of Jesus.

Mat 28:18 And having approached, Jesus spoke to them, saying, "All authority in heaven and on earth was given to Me.
Mat 28:19 "When you* have gone, make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to be observing all [things], as many as I commanded you*. And listen! _I_ am with you* all the days, until the conclusion of the age! So be it!" [Gr. amen, and throughout NT].

 

[c.moore]

Rene

How many people did Jesus get saved and born again??

Did Jesus come for the Jews???

Was the new testament started after Jesus death burial and resurrection or before???

What do you think is the good news ???

Why didn`t paul come to teach water baptism???

When Jesus Himself did all on the cross what is left after the cross to do to get what is alreay completed by the cross???

You try to make the cross of no effect or a half done work of Jesus , or Christ was not enough to do all for us to be righteous , or son and daughter by His blood alobe and our faith to accept.

You still have a hang up with trying to keep the old laws and religious works and ritual to gain salvation and that is not the good news.

you need to preach Christ not water!

You need to teach to other the finish work of the cross and the free grace and the free blood which washes our sins away completly and instantly as we accept according to to Rom 10.

You are trying to work in a religious brownie point system and God is to mercyful for that.

God is concerned who is with Him who has accepted Him with the heart and not with the water or rituals.

you can´t see beyond your cart , because it is in front of your horses.

Once again it is a shame to the real Gospel of Christ how you add a water down gospel

teach Christ not H2O.

teach Christ and not a religious ritual Rene.

People are looking for Christ and not getting wet to qualify.

If that is the case to get water bapized as the gospel then do the who works of all the laws and keep every one of them including circumcission, and etc.

 

[rene]

And you STILL haven't answered ONE of the questions I asked.

You have made SEVERAL FALSE claims that I don't answer, about me, others, suggestions about all those that were false - but then you don't seem to follow what you want to require. Your mixed standard is reflected in your mixed message that you follow and promote.

 

[c.moore]

STILL not answering the question with the requested scriptures that state what you suggest. I know what *I* call such that attempt to support such in such a manner - what is it that you call someone that makes claims but can't support them?? What sort of teaching is it that one is giving if not supported from scripture??

I gave you ! cor 15 and that is scriptural.

Is a person a Christian - in Christ Jesus - that doesn't follow His teaching?

They are a christian even if they don`t get wet.
What makes a christian is their faith in Christ alone, and then when they are saved they do the rest.

Do you have ANY THOUGHT as to whom these words came from within the bible? HINT - it is the apostle that you keep claiming supports your view of no need to baptize.

Paul!

Mat 28:18 And having approached, Jesus spoke to them, saying, "All authority in heaven and on earth was given to Me.

Is Matthew new testiment or old?

So WHERE within any of 1 Corinthians does it state ANYWHERE that baptism is not needed, something that one can approach with the buffet approach of pick and choose what one is going to follow of the teachings of Jesus?? WHERE??

It also doesn`t say it is needed.