On the contrary...
On the contrary...
Hello Jerry.
Scripture reveals that it is by the Holy Spirit that one is baptized INTO CHRIST (1Cor.12:13,27).
Yes, and I agree with this verse. The difference is that you believe that this is referring the literal falling of the Holy Spirit as it happened to the Apostles in Acts 2:4 and the Gentiles in Acts 10:44. You believe that
"The sinner is born again at the very moment when he hears and believes the word of God."
I do not believe this. The Holy Spirit is what convicts us of our sins (John 16:9). Did not Peter, when he spoke to the Jews in Acts chapter 2, speak by the authority of Christ through the Holy Spirit? Yes. He spoke through the Holy Spirit,
which convicted the Jews of their sins (Acts 2:37), and as a result of that conviction by the Holy Spirit, they obeyed the command of baptism for the remission of their sins (verse 38), thus being alive to God, being reborn. The Jews were baptized into Christ. But if it were not for the Holy Spirit, convicting of them their sins,
they would have never been baptized for the remission of their sins. By means of the Holy Spirit, they were baptized into one body, into Christ. So yes, it is by one Spirit that we are baptized into Christ (1Cor.12:13)
Also, for your view to be correct, that a person is baptized by the Holy Spirit upon hearing and believing, then I would invite you to explain why it did
not happen to the Samaritans when they believed the gospel (Acts 8:12,15,16). Why didn't the Holy Spirit fall upon them when they believed the gospel, Jerry? The were, however, baptized in the name of the Lord for the remission of their sins (verse 12,16).
We are BAPTIZED into Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit,and we are also baptized into His death by the Holy Spirit.
We are baptized because of the convicting power of the Holy Spirit which leads to belief, repentance, and baptism - just as it happened at Pentacost. We are NOT baptized into His death by the Holy Spirit Himself, but rather by being baptized in Jesus's name for the remission of sins because of the conviction of the Holy Spirit. To be baptized in the name of Christ is to be baptized into Christ, and I will give evidence of this shortly.
There are NO VERSES--ZERO,ZILCH--NO VERSES that ever say that anyone is baptized INTO JESUS CHRIST by a "water baptism".
I have evidence to show that being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, which is done with water, is being baptized into His death (thus into Christ), and is the ONE baptism spoken of in Eph 4:5. Consider the following:
- You rightly say that the baptism spoken of in Romans 6 is speaking of the baptism "into Christ". In that chapter, it stresses that through baptism we die with Him (Romans 6:3-4), putting away our old man of sin, no longer being slaves to sin (verse 6). It is he who has died with Christ through baptism who is "freed from sin". In otherwords, if you have died with Him through baptism, you are free from sins.
- In Acts 2:38, the Jews were given a command to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for what? The remission of sins. So, in Romans 6, which speaks of being baptized into Christ, we see that it frees us from sin (Romans 6:7). Being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ is also for the remission of sins - that we may be freed from sin! Coincidence? I think not. Acts 2:38 and Romans 6 are speaking of the same baptism... and it would only be appropriate for only ONE baptism was command by Christ, the one in His name (Matt. 28:19-20)! And that's exactly what the apostles preached and practiced. The practiced what they preached.
- Being baptized in the name of the Lord, which is for the remission of sins, is done with water (Acts 10:47-48), and is for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38), which is exactly what Romans 6 speaks of - being free from sin by dying with Christ through baptism. A person who is dead to sin is alive God through Christ (Romans 6:11) - and that certainly fits the definition of a rebirth.
- Paul, who wrote about being baptized into Christ in Romans 6, baptized in the name of the Lord (1 Cor. 1:16, Acts 19:5), don't you think that Paul would practice the same baptism that HE wrote about in Romans 6? Yes. Why? Because the Lord commanded it to be so. (Matt 28:19-20)
- Baptism in the name of Christ is the ONE baptism spoken of in Eph. 4:5. Paul, who practiced baptism in the name of the Lord, did so because it was commanded that all should be baptized in the name of Christ (Matt. 28: 19,20). This commandment was given for man to carry out, not God. Man cannot baptize with the Holy Spirit, but he can baptize with water in the name of the Lord for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38), putting them into Christ and alive to God (Romans 6:11). This is indeed the ONE baptism spoken of, for it is the only one that man could carry out, as commanded by their Lord. Why would Paul write about a ONE baptism in Romans 6 that he didn't practice and wasn't the one that man could fulfill as order by Christ? Don't you think Paul practiced what he preached? He did, just look at Acts 19:5 and 1 Cor 1:16. So Spirit baptism cannot be the ONE baptism because the ONE baptism that was commanded by Christ was commanded that MAN carry out, who CANNOT baptize with the Holy Spirit.
- Holy Spirit baptism was never commanded of men. Don't you think that if Spirit baptism was the ONE baptism, the one that frees us from sins and puts us into Christ, that it would be command by Christ? It wasn't. There's not ONE verse that commands Spirit baptism.
In fact,those who were baptized with water were not baptized INTO JESUS CHRIST,but instead were baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST!
Can you not tell the DIFFERENCE between being baptized INTO Jesus Christ and being baptized IN THE NAME of Jesus Christ?
See above. I've shown Biblical paralells and reasoning that being baptized in His name is indeed being baptized into Him.
In the meantime,you do not even address the words that state that the process of being "born of God" has NOTHING at all to do with the "will of man":
I'm not sure what scripture you are referring to, but I can tell you without a doubt that you are interpreting that incorrectly. It has nothing to do with man in the sense that it not POSSIBLE to be born again without the grace of God. If God had not sent His Son to die, could we be born again? No. If God had not sent down His Spirit to convict us of our sins and teach us the truth, could we be born again? No. Why? Because conviction wouldn't be there, nor would repentance, and nor could anybody ever be baptized into His death if He wasn't sent to us in the first place. No rebirth would be possible. God did all this, not man. It is not the will of man that made this possible.
However it IS the will of man to accept God's grace. We have free will to decide that. God doesn't want any to perish (2 Peter 3:9), but obviously, some will.
When the Jews in Acts 2 were convicted of their sins, and given the command to repent and be baptized in the name of Christ for the remission of sins,
nobody forced them into baptism, they did it out of their own free will.
"Being born again,not of corruptible seed,but of incorruptible,BY THE WORD OF GOD"(1Pet.1:23).
ONLY if that word is obey. You can hear the gospel. You can believe the gospel. But if you don't
obey the gospel, hell awaits (2 Thess. 1:8). Christ is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him (Heb 5:9).
We are born again by the word of God because one hears, believes, repents, and is baptized,
just as the Jews in Acts 2 and many many other examples in the book of Acts. Those are examples of
obeying the gospel. Without the word, one would never hear, believe, repent, or obey the command of baptism in His name for the remission of sins - thus being dead to sin and alive to God through Christ (Romans 6:11) - thus
being reborn!
The sinner is born again at the very moment when he hears and believes the word of God.
Then what happened to the Samaratins in Acts 8, when the HS didn't fall upon them when they believed? Why weren't they Spirit baptized as you say happens upon belief? How did they die with Christ upon belief? They didn't, which is exactly why they were baptized, which is the ONLY Biblical way to die with Christ, in the name of the Lord for the remission of their sins, thus dying so that they may live with Him (2 Tim. 2:11).
And if one is instantly born again after hearing and believing, why did Peter command the Jews to be water baptized in Acts 2:38 and the Gentiles in Acts 10:47-48? What is the purpose of baptism in His name? Why do you think Christ commanded it? Back it with scripture
Anything which he might do AFTER that,such as submitting to a rite of water baptism,has nothing whatsoever to do with his born again experience.
Sure it does. For a death must occur for new life to begin, and baptism is the ONLY Biblical method given for dying with Christ (Romans 6:3-4). And this is not speaking of Spirit baptism for reasons stated above. If we want to live with Christ, we must die with Him also (2 Tim. 2:11). It is water baptism in the name of the Lord, which is what was commanded by Christ, practiced by the apostles, and
obeyed by believers for the remission of their sins, thus being dead to sin and alive to God and being reborn.
