ECT The Gospel Preached at Pentecost

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
That is a worthless statement.

Talk's cheap!

Not long after Paul was converted on the Damascus road he preached the following message to the Jews:

"And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.....proving that this is the very Christ" (Acts 9:20,22).​

At that time Paul had not yet received the gospel which he was to preach among the Gentiles. He wrote the following:

"But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus" (Gal.1:15-17).​

When Paul received a gospel from the Lord Jesus on the Damascus road he immediately went to Damascus (Acts 9:6-8). But when he received the gospel which he preached among the Gentiles he went immediately into Arabia. That can only mean that he preached two different gospels during the Acts period.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Talk's cheap!

Not long after Paul was converted on the Damascus road he preached the following message to the Jews:

"And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.....proving that this is the very Christ" (Acts 9:20,22).​

At that time Paul had not yet received the gospel which he was to preach among the Gentiles. He wrote the following:

"But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus" (Gal.1:15-17).​

When Paul received a gospel from the Lord Jesus on the Damascus road he immediately went to Damascus (Acts 9:6-8). But when he received the gospel which he preached among the Gentiles he went immediately into Arabia. That can only mean that he preached two different gospels during the Acts period.




Really cheap. I have shown over and over how fundamentally united on things Peter and Paul were. You are part of 2P2P and everything is muck.
 

Danoh

New member
Really cheap. I have shown over and over how fundamentally united on things Peter and Paul were. You are part of 2P2P and everything is muck.

You have NEVER shown ANYTHING - you have merely ASSERTED endlessly.

Time to quit showing up to work in so called scholar's garb; throw on some jeans and some war paint; pull out the Scripture, and get down to the "Father's business" of posting Scripture your assertions are supposedly based on.
 

intojoy

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We have an uninterrupted sermon preached by Peter on the day of Pentecost beginning at Acts 2:14 and ending at Acts 2:36 and men were being saved by what Peter preached. Look at those verses and give me your evidence that Peter was preaching that Christ died for their sins or that He was made sin for us that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.

Since the sermon was uninterrupted and people were being saved by what Peter said in that sermon then it will be an easy thing for you to find his words where he said that "Christ died for our sins."

The remission of sins just like in Luke.
What you're failing to acknowledge is that Paul received special revelation that he writes with that expounds upon that great remission of Pete's sins.


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intojoy

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“And when there had been much questioning, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Brethren, ye know that a good while ago God made choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.”
??Acts? ?15:7-9? ?ASV??
http://bible.com/12/act.15.7-9.asv


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intojoy

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Case Closed
96f5ccdd127fac4aab242f2da72c7b98.jpg



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Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
The remission of sins just like in Luke.

We see in Luke that the Twelve were preaching a gospel (Lk.9:6) at a time when they didn't even know that the Lord Jesus was going to die (Lk.18:33-34).

So it is evident that they were not preaching anything about salvation coming as a result of the Lord Jesus' death.

Grandson, I send you to school and buy you books and all you do is chew on them.
 

intojoy

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We see in Luke that the Twelve were preaching a gospel (Lk.9:6) at a time when they didn't even know that the Lord Jesus was going to die (Lk.18:33-34).

So it is evident that they were not preaching anything about salvation coming as a result of the Lord Jesus' death.

Grandson, I send you to school and buy you books and all you do is chew on them.

You know, Fruchtenbaum teaches that one can gauge their spiritual maturity based on how well they understand the 8 mysteries of the Bible. If you'd like I can email you a manuscript. The gospel of the kingdom is not the gospel of remission of sin. That is obvious.


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Interplanner

Well-known member
You know, Fruchtenbaum teaches that one can gauge their spiritual maturity based on how well they understand the 8 mysteries of the Bible. If you'd like I can email you a manuscript. The gospel of the kingdom is not the gospel of remission of sin. That is obvious.


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Jerry doesn't understand what's going on there. They were in denial. It happens all the time to people (I'm not singling out Jerry). The disciples got this idea in their head that he was going to just forgive sins (no sacrifice involved). Some say this is due to passages/events such as the first exchange in which he proved his authority to forgive by a healing (Mk 2:10). "See, he can forgive, but there didn't need to be a death."

But Christ was a package deal. He would reckon his death into his statements even though it was 3 years off. The disciples made all kinds of foolish mistakes.

The text about not knowing or understanding is not so much theology as character arc. They were unwilling to accept that the whole thing was going that direction. And apparently they said 'we don't know what you are talking about' so much that there was no point in capturing conversation details! That's how denial is!

This explains the force of Peter's denial. Not just that it happened, but that he persisted in it three times. They all had done so already. They all had stale Judaistic theology in their heads. It's called the fear of death. Ask anyone who is about to die, and you'll find that no matter how they have prepared, there is no preparation; you are shocked, and want 'out.'

Then comes the 40 days. They are taught thoroughly that this was SUPPOSED to happen according to the prophets and that the cancellation of the debt of sin is now to be preached, even to Israel who nailed him to the cross!!! It is absolutely wonderful, grace, mercy and forgiveness.

But to Jerry it is a mess and is totally lost.

They were certainly not taught about a kingdom for Israel, because that thought is snapped at Acts 1:8 and it never surfaces again. Their last mistake like that, it seems.

Peter's message, explaining the noise of the Spirit, is just that. The people who nailed Christ did so in a set plan and foreknowledge that God was bringing a way of remitting sins. So it was not a LOSS!!! It was a victory!!! Of course, they were wrong to do so, but so were the brothers of Joseph to throw him in a pit for trade for money. It still ended in a victory.

But this story and victory is lost to Jerry because he has a separate story that is perfectly dull.

This Jesus then gets put on the much-dreamed throne of David!!! And why not? Every title that can be named!!! There is nothing so amazing, so powerful, so intimately kind to the worst enemy, a story that applies to the whole universe! Peter powers on in the next speech with the assumption that Christ would return shortly and renovate everything about this world! That is how powerful the hope there is in the victory resurrection and enthronement of Christ! Yes it is a complete taste of the powers of the world to come (Heb 6:5) where everything will be right!

But 2P2P turns it into regurgitated muck that no one would care for. Nothing damages the throb and passion of the Gospel like 2P2P. It is not just wrong on every exegesis, it is disgusting.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Jerry doesn't understand what's going on there. They were in denial. It happens all the time to people (I'm not singling out Jerry). The disciples got this idea in their head that he was going to just forgive sins (no sacrifice involved). Some say this is due to passages/events such as the first exchange in which he proved his authority to forgive by a healing. "See, he can forgive, but there didn't need to be a death."

But Christ was a package deal. He would reckon his death into his statements even though it was 3 years off. The disciples made all kinds of foolish mistakes.

The text about not knowing is not so much theology as character arc. They were unwilling to accept that the whole thing was going that direction. And apparently they said 'we don't know what you are talking about' so much that there was no point in capturing conversation details! That's how denial is!

This explains the force of Peter's denial. Not just that it happened, but that he persisted in it three times. They all had done so already. They all had stale Judaistic theology in their heads. It's called the fear of death. Ask anyone who is about to die, and you'll find that no matter how they have prepared, there is no preparation; you are shocked, and want 'out.'

Then comes the 40 days. They are taught thoroughly that this was SUPPOSED to happen according to the prophets and that the cancellation of the debt of sin is now to be preached, even to Israel who nailed him to the cross!!! It is absolutely wonderful, grace, mercy and forgiveness.

But to Jerry it is a mess and is totally lost.

Peter's message, explaining the noise of the Spirit, is just that. The people who nailed Christ did so in a set plan and foreknowledge that God was bringing a way of remitting sins. So it was not a LOSS!!! It was a victory!!! Of course, they were wrong to do so, but so were the brothers of Joseph to throw him in a pit for trade for money. It still ended in a victory.

But this story and victory is lost to Jerry because he has a separate story that is perfectly dull.

This Jesus then gets put on the much-dreamed throne of David!!! And why not? Every title that can be named!!! There is nothing so amazing, so powerful, so intimately kind to the worst enemy, a story that applies to the whole universe! Peter powers on in the next speech with the assumption that Christ would return shortly and renovate everything about this world! That is how powerful the hope there is in the victory resurrection and enthronement of Christ! Yes it is a complete taste of the powers of the world to come (Heb 6:5) where everything will be right!

But 2P2P turns it into regurgitated muck that no one would care for. Nothing damages the throb and passion of the Gospel like 2P2P. It is not just wrong on every exegesis, it is disgusting.

All of this is straight out of a commentary.
Put them down, pick up the Holy Bible.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
You know, Fruchtenbaum teaches that one can gauge their spiritual maturity based on how well they understand the 8 mysteries of the Bible. If you'd like I can email you a manuscript. The gospel of the kingdom is not the gospel of remission of sin. That is obvious.







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There is nothing obvious about inventing another Gospel. It was not a gospel ABOUT a kingdom (you can see this from the Greek case system). It was the one gospel associated with that reign of Christ which was launching. You may not use the word ABOUT there; it violates the grammar of the Greek text.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
There is nothing obvious about inventing another Gospel. It was not a gospel ABOUT a kingdom (you can see this from the Greek case system). It was the one gospel associated with that reign of Christ which was launching. You may not use the word ABOUT there; it violates the grammar of the Greek text.

Made up.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
You know, Fruchtenbaum teaches that one can gauge their spiritual maturity based on how well they understand the 8 mysteries of the Bible. If you'd like I can email you a manuscript. The gospel of the kingdom is not the gospel of remission of sin. That is obvious.

Yes, please send me Fruchtembaum's notes on the subject.

In the meantime, do you think that those who believed in the "identity" of the Lord Jesus had their sins forgiven? He said:

"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins"
(Jn.8:23-24).​

Do you believe that those who believe that He is the Christ, the Son of God, receive life and are saved when they believe that?:

"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name"
(Jn.20:30-31).​
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
The text about not knowing or understanding is not so much theology as character arc. They were unwilling to accept that the whole thing was going that direction. And apparently they said 'we don't know what you are talking about' so much that there was no point in capturing conversation details! That's how denial is!

Would you please answer a simple question? Were the Apostles preaching that salvation comes as a result of the death of the Lord Jesus here?:

"Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick...And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where" (Lk.9:1-2,6).​
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Would you please answer a simple question? Were the Apostles preaching that salvation comes as a result of the death of the Lord Jesus here?:

"Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick...And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where" (Lk.9:1-2,6).​

The answer is obvious, let's see if he will let go of his pride, and admit the truth.
I doubt he will.
 

intojoy

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Yes, please send me Fruchtembaum's notes on the subject.

In the meantime, do you think that those who believed in the "identity" of the Lord Jesus had their sins forgiven? He said:

"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins"
(Jn.8:23-24).​

Do you believe that those who believe that He is the Christ, the Son of God, receive life and are saved when they believe that?:
IJ:COME ON DAD, YOU TAUGHT ME BETTER THAN THAT



"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name"
(Jn.20:30-31).​




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intojoy

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If Interplayer is unsaved which he would be if he rejects the trinity then no matter how much pride, he can't answer theological truth because he can't discern theological truth.


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intojoy

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Yes or no?

Child please!

The content of faith for salvation is trusting in the revealed truth of God up to that point of history.

Those who followed Yeshua were saved by grace thru faith in His claim to be the Jewish Messiah. They did not have to believe in Messiah's death burial and resurrection in order to be regenerated (born again). Their sins however could not be atoned for until the cross and resurrection because it was necessary for the "taking away" of their sin. That is why the OT Saints remained in Paradise until Messiah's death because their sins were only "covered" and not removed.

The content or test of faith since Messiah's cross is exactly what Pete preached. That Messiah would die a penal death, be buried and rise again as a propitiation for our sin.
In order for the Jews there in acts 2 to be regenerated (born again) the content of faith changed from before the cross when only faith in the Messiaship of Yeshua saved.

Paul was chosen by Yeshua to deliver detailed theological truths about the grace of God and the Mysteries of God but Paul was not the originator of the gospel of the cross which was why Pete and Jacob added nothing to Paul's teachings in Acts 15 when Paul went to them to see if "I had run in vain" and to ask them if Titus a gentile needed to be circumcised.



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