The Ever Present Problem of Atheism (HOF thread)

[Z Man]

Originally posted by Zakath
Your philosophy and theology are incomplete or outright false, since they cannot deal with how real humans act....

Whoa, stop right there. This is your problem. It's not about how we act or what decisions we make that constitutes our belief in God; it's about His actions and His decisions. God chose me, I didn't choose Him. He has promised eternal life to those that believe with a heart that God has changed. That means, if you truely believed at one time, you always will...

I'd suggest you try thinking about things instead of blindingly accepting what you've heard from a pulpit or read somewhere...

I'd suggest you try thinking about things instead of blindingly accepting what you've heard from a scientist or read somewhere...

Real, in a philosophical sense, means: "Existing objectively in the world regardless of subjectivity or conventions of thought or language. "

For example, the computer upon which I type this message is real.

But if you fastforward into the future, the computer will be no more. It will cease to exist. Therefor, it's not real. It's purpose will be irrelevant, for it does not exist anymore. What isn't real is not important. What is real is where we need to focus our everything; and that which is real is eternal. It will never fade away and it's purposes and will will always stand relevant...

Your definition of "truth" isn't the same as mine.

Dosn't make the Truth any less valid. The Truth is the truth, whether you define it the same way or not.

If we cannot communicate in plain English, how do you expect to convey a convincing argument?

I'm not arguing; just stating a mere fact about yourself. If you believed at one time, you can not be an atheist. If you are truely an atheist, you always were...

 

[Z Man]

Originally posted by shima
Z Man:
>>Yup. You're finally catching on! <<

So, what is REAL according to you?

Anything that lasts forever. BTW, that includes you...

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Z Man
Whoa, stop right there. This is your problem.

Not so. Your surreal theology is not my problem unless it causes you to kick down my door or commit other mayhem on my property and person...

Then it becomes our problem, and will be dealt with accordingly.

I'd suggest you try thinking about things...

I have, that's why I'm an atheist, not a sheep.

But if you fastforward into the future, the computer will be no more. It will cease to exist. Therefor, it's not real.

It is real now but will cease to exist in the future. I am not a deity that exists outside of time, all my referents are to time-bounded existence...

Dosn't make the Truth any less valid. The Truth is the truth, whether you define it the same way or not.

:sigh: The issue is what you define as Truth and whether your definition is commonly held enough to carry on a rational discussion.

 

[shima]

>>Anything that lasts forever. BTW, that includes you...<<

Nah, when I die, I die. Nothing is left other than a decomposing body.

 

[Zakath]

Euphemistically speaking, "the long dirt nap."

 

[shima]

Zakath:
>>Euphemistically speaking, "the long dirt nap."<<

What strikes me about most religious people is their extreme FEAR of dying. They are extremely afraid that their existence will come to an end, and with it they think that life is meaningless UNLESS there is something out there (naturally unbound by time) that gives meaning to their lives.

Such a shame....

 

[Zakath]

I've noticed it too. Perhaps that's because their religion isn't as effective at addressing their fears as they hope.

I've always wondered why religionists, particularly Christians, fight in self-defense or hook their diseased or aged loved ones to life support to prolong their corporeal existence when their scriptures teach that "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord".

Given the choice of living here or going to the Christian heaven, who in their right mind would stay here?

Aside from atheists, that is. :crackup:

 

[shima]

Zakath:
>>Given the choice of living here or going to heaven, who in their right mind would stay here? <<

Yeah, you would think they would just lay down and die. Perhaps biology is stronger than they think. And is actually what evolution teaches. So, christians actually confirm evolution by NOT laying down their lives.

 

[Zakath]

Now shima, you're going to get some creationist's panties in a wad making statements like that! :angel:

 

[shima]

Zakath:
>>Now shima, you're going to get some creationist's panties in a wad making statements like that! <<

So? Bring 'em on I'd say. If and when they have some good arguements why Creationism is valid (and quoting bible scriptures will not help, since the bible isn't "real" according to Z Man) then we can talk.

 

[Zakath]

:thumb:

Nice turn of phrase there, shima.

I wonder if anyone will take up the challenge.

(breathes deeply, refusing to hold his breath until someone does take up the challenge...)

 

[RogerB]

Merely repeating the same argument over and over does not make it any more sensible, Z Man.

That's funny coming from you. :chuckle:

How many times can one person post "prove it"? That is, afterall, the parts and the sum of all your posts. And you find this entertaining? :bang:

 

[RogerB]

shima, you've tumbled into the deep end of the pool and you can't swim.

 

[Zakath]

I use "prove it" not as an argument, but an interrogative statement. As in "Can you prove it?":doh:

What I find entertaining is seeing how many ways religionists can deny reality, yet still manage to function day-to-day. Well at least some of them do...

 

[RogerB]

:vomit:

 

[Zakath]

Profound reply, Roger. Up to your usual standards of eloquence, I see.

Do you actually have anything substantive to contribute to a discussion with atheists or are you content to be merely an annoying presence, buzzing about like a housefly?

 

[shima]

RogerB:
>>shima, you've tumbled into the deep end of the pool and you can't swim.<<

I can swim well enough, since I'm still here.

As far as your "arguement" is concerned: I've seen better.

 

[RogerB]

Come on Zak and shima. You KNOW what I'm talking about. I don't even have to say it, do I?

 

[One Eyed Jack]

Originally posted by shima
>>I think I've got it:

10. ignore truth<<

Yes, religionists tend to ignore the truth about science. They simply alter what a scientific theory states and then claim that the theory isn't true. Then they claim that, because science is "obviously" incorrect, the story described in their preferred holy text MUST be true.

Christians aren't against science. I can't speak for other religions...

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by RogerB
Come on Zak and shima. You KNOW what I'm talking about. I don't even have to say it, do I?

If you don't have to say it, then why do you keep posting over and over and over... :chuckle: