the church

Catholic Crusader

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
clefty said:
Not sure Peter would recognize this Church...he warned of the changes and additions he already saw to the traditions taught by them...long before the NT was ratified...

John the revelator wrote to 7 churches...most of which were already straying...

But yeah I understand what you intend...
Click to expand...

There are no changes, but there is growth and development, as there is with any living thing, and the Church is a living thing. Just as you look nothing like your baby pictures, neither does the Church. And just like you are wiser and more knowledgeable now than when you were a child, so is the Church. Yet you are still you, the child you mother gave birth to, and so is the Church.
 
Catholic Crusader

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
clefty said:
.........But yeah I understand what you intend...
Click to expand...
Listen to this. It is an mp3 of an old episode of the "Bible Answer Man", a protestant AM radio show. The guest is (a very young) Dr. Scott Hahn. He is a former Presbyterian Pastor who became a Catholic and is now Professor of Scripture & Theology at Franciscan University in Steubenville. His counter-part on the show, ironically, is a former Catholic who became a Presbyterian! I like this recording because both sides are charitable and fair. You won't see charges of "apostasy" and "traditions of men" tossed about between these two thoughtful men. And even though I am no fan of the "Bible Answer Man", he plays a pretty fair moderator on this episode. It really is good to listen to, and is a fine example of how people of differing views really ought to debate in love, respect, and charity.

Here is the link, I hope you listen and I'd love to hear your comments. Same goes for everyone else: http://www.philvaz.com/ScottHahnBAM1990.mp3
 
C

clefty

New member
CatholicCrusader said:
There are no changes, but there is growth and development, as there is with any living thing, and the Church is a living thing. Just as you look nothing like your baby pictures, neither does the Church. And just like you are wiser and more knowledgeable now than when you were a child, so is the Church. Yet you are still you, the child you mother gave birth to, and so is the Church.
Click to expand...

I agree there is growth and development...but even in the natural world of biology the branches grafted into the trunk and root should be similar in family type...we can't expect oranges grafted into Apple trunks...

And by their fruits they are quite different the early church and what we have today...radically different fruit

Not all growth and development is acceptable as even the current pope is rejected by a growing number of Catholics who see him as heretical, not even Catholic at all, for all his "growth and development"...contempt for Vatican 2 grows for changes seemingly minor...jots and tittles like the direction the priest stood...



So things unchangeable in tradition are changeable after all...just Not for all and some more than others...and so it goes

Please recall that He died at the hands of those that rejected His desire to restore the ancient faith and traditions preferring rather to hold on to their "growth and development"
 
C

clefty

New member
CatholicCrusader said:
Listen to this. It is an mp3 of an old episode of the "Bible Answer Man", a protestant AM radio show. The guest is (a very young) Dr. Scott Hahn. He is a former Presbyterian Pastor who became a Catholic and is now Professor of Scripture & Theology at Franciscan University in Steubenville. His counter-part on the show, ironically, is a former Catholic who became a Presbyterian! I like this recording because both sides are charitable and fair. You won't see charges of "apostasy" and "traditions of men" tossed about between these two thoughtful men. And even though I am no fan of the "Bible Answer Man", he plays a pretty fair moderator on this episode. It really is good to listen to, and is a fine example of how people of differing views really ought to debate in love, respect, and charity.

Here is the link, I hope you listen and I'd love to hear your comments. Same goes for everyone else: http://www.philvaz.com/ScottHahnBAM1990.mp3
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link...will listen and comment as I can
 
TulipBee

TulipBee

BANNED
Banned
The church reboots itself due to the ever changing present. Time to leave to past and follow the living God. Romanism makes God dead and takes over instead.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
glassjester said:
Wrong. Christ has one body. The Church is His body. He does not have two Churches. You've divided Christ. Why?
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You poor confused cow.

TODAY Christ has ONE body. In the past He had a NATION and a people on the earth; a royal priesthood and a holy nation.

I don't divide Christ; I understand His dealings as He defines them in His Word.

It's not hard, but you refer your religion to the truth.
 
glassjester

glassjester

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
You poor confused cow.

TODAY Christ has ONE body. In the past He had a NATION and a people on the earth; a royal priesthood and a holy nation.

I don't divide Christ; I understand His dealings as He defines them in His Word.

It's not hard, but you refer your religion to the truth.
Click to expand...

You say Christ founded 2 Churches.

Which is His body and which isn't?
Which were His apostles part of?
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
glassjester said:
You say Christ founded 2 Churches.

Which is His body and which isn't?
Which were His apostles part of?
Click to expand...
It is so simple that I'm amazed that you have problems understanding it.

There is the nation of Israel with its twelve tribes and twelve apostles that will judge them.
There is the one body and its one apostle, Paul.

If it were not for your false religion, perhaps you could see this in the Bible.
 
C

clefty

New member
clefty said:
Thanks for the link...will listen and comment as I can
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Good stuff..

Interesting to note a better understanding of the Hebraic covenant as familial not judicial...implications of inheritance not just being justified...

good too to see it's gone from not just reformation but closer to restoration...lol

Centuries after distancing itself from all things Jewish...it's now ironic the Church is coming home...lol...ok maybe not


The clarification on saved by grace was helpful...but for me which works are done after grace is received reveals the heart...it's gratitude...and loyalty

Are they works commanded by Yah? Or works obligated by man's traditions...

Do we give thanks/sacrifices and do as He instructed or bring/do what we want...with our own rationale...tradition being just extended peer pressure

Now something for you

https://youtu.be/P45BHDRA7pU
 
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