The Burning Bush

[Ben Masada]

The Burning Bush

Indeed the angel of the Lord did appear unto Moses in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush but... in a dream... or was it a vision? Either way, Moses was tending the flocks of his father-in-Law Jethro, the Medianite in the desert and time had come to take the sheep to the well at the foot of Horeb and water them. The day was hot and Moses was tired. He found a place to sit down while the flocks drank and slumbered thinking about the fate of his People in Egypt. That's when he had a vision of the angel of the Lord from the burning bush. That was expected to happen because Moses had somehow been cut out to be the greatest of the Prophets in Israel and, the Lord said, "When a prophet of the Lord arises among you, I'll make Myself known to him in a vision; I'll speak with him in a dream." (Numbers 12:6) That's what happened between Moses and the burning bush. The first dream/vision of Moses as a Prophet.

 

[Wick Stick]

Be less subtle. I can't even figure out what point you're trying to make.

Maybe you wanted to talk about the Midianite origins of the Jewish faith?

 

[Ben Masada]

Be less subtle. I can't even figure out what point you're trying to make.

Maybe you wanted to talk about the Midianite origins of the Jewish faith?

The bottom line of this thread is that there has never been a literal encounter between man and God. Even Moses the greatest of the prophets communicated with God by means of dreams and visions. No one, no matter what, could ever see Hashem and live. (Exodus 33:20)BTW, the Jewish Faith has nothing to do with Midianite origins.

 

[Apple7]

The bottom line of this thread is that there has never been a literal encounter between man and God. Even Moses the greatest of the prophets communicated with God by means of dreams and visions. No one, no matter what, could ever see Hashem and live. (Exodus 33:20)

Jewish replacement theology has no place here...

And He said, My presences (plural noun) will go (plural verb) with you, and I will give you rest. And they said to Him, If Your presences (plural noun) does not go (plural verb), do not cause us to go up from here. Exo 33.14 - 15

 

[Wick Stick]

Jewish replacement theology has no place here...

Ben is Jewish, so I don't think he's into replacement theology...

 

[Wick Stick]

The bottom line of this thread is that there has never been a literal encounter between man and God. Even Moses the greatest of the prophets communicated with God by means of dreams and visions. No one, no matter what, could ever see Hashem and live. (Exodus 33:20)

Do you mean 'physical' rather than 'literal?'

 

[Ben Masada]

Jewish replacement theology has no place here...

And He said, My presences (plural noun) will go (plural verb) with you, and I will give you rest. And they said to Him, If Your presences (plural noun) does not go (plural verb), do not cause us to go up from here. Exo 33.14 - 15

There is no such a thing as Jewish Replacement Theology. The policy was Pauline and it is used by Christianity to vandalize Judaism; better said, by the NT aka the gospel of Paul to vandalize the Tanach aka the gospel of Jesus. Besides, Replacement Theology is used by the one that came afterwards. Judaism is from the time of Abraham; Christianity is from the time of Paul.

 

[Ben Masada]

Do you mean 'physical' rather than 'literal?'

There is not difference here between the physical and the literal.

 

[Apple7]

Ben is Jewish, so I don't think he's into replacement theology...

That's all he talks about...

 

[Apple7]

There is no such a thing as Jewish Replacement Theology. The policy was Pauline and it is used by Christianity to vandalize Judaism; better said, by the NT aka the gospel of Paul to vandalize the Tanach aka the gospel of Jesus. Besides, Replacement Theology is used by the one that came afterwards. Judaism is from the time of Abraham; Christianity is from the time of Paul.

You ascribe to Jewish Replacement Theology....since you mention Jews as being the perpetrators.

If it were a Christian invention, then it would have been called Christian Replacement Theology.

 

[beameup]

The Burning Bush

Indeed the angel of the Lord did appear unto Moses in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush but... in a dream...

It's all "just a dream" Ben. You are just "having a dream".

 

[beameup]

There is no such a thing as Jewish Replacement Theology. The policy was Pauline and it is used by Christianity to vandalize Judaism; better said, by the NT aka the gospel of Paul to vandalize the Tanach aka the gospel of Jesus. Besides, Replacement Theology is used by the one that came afterwards. Judaism is from the time of Abraham; Christianity is from the time of Paul.

Replacement Theology was a creation of Augustine of Hippo and others, in the 4th century A.D., when the Roman State Religion was formed. The 1st century disciples (ie: Early Church Fathers) correctly believed that Israel would be reestablished, they just didn't know when. We now know "when"... in 1948.

 

[Wick Stick]

There is no difference here between the physical and the literal.

There is, actually. Which of the following is most correct?

Moses physically met God.
Moses literally met God.
Moses figuratively met God.

The 1st statement is impossible. The last statement would mean that Moses didn't meet God at all, and the story was meant to convey something else. Statement 2 is most correct. Moses literally met God... in a dream.

Jarrod

 

[Ben Masada]

You ascribe to Jewish Replacement Theology....since you mention Jews as being the perpetrators.

If it were a Christian invention, then it would have been called Christian Replacement Theology.

All right Apple, thank you for correcting me and, be patient with my English as it is to me the third, not even the second language. I understood your correction. Obviously, if I say, "Jewish Replacement Theology", we are the ones causing it. If the policy is Pauline, logically, the right way to say is "Christian Replacement Theology.

 

[Ben Masada]

It's all "just a dream" Ben. You are just "having a dream".

Hey! Blame the Lord, not me. He said that, if there is a prophet among you, in a vision I'll reveal Myself to him, in a dream I'll speak to him. That's in Numbers 12:6. No one can see God and still live.(Exodus 33:20)

 

[Ben Masada]

Replacement Theology was a creation of Augustine of Hippo and others, in the 4th century A.D., when the Roman State Religion was formed. The 1st century disciples (ie: Early Church Fathers) correctly believed that Israel would be reestablished, they just didn't know when. We now know "when"... in 1948.

I would say that Replacement Theology was a creation of Paul as the NT is all about; unless interpolations were added by the Fathers of the Church as pious forgery which was so common in the 4th Century.

 

[Ben Masada]

There is, actually. Which of the following is most correct?

Moses physically met God.
Moses literally met God.
Moses figuratively met God.

The 1st statement is impossible. The last statement would mean that Moses didn't meet God at all, and the story was meant to convey something else. Statement 2 is most correct. Moses literally met God... in a dream.

Jarrod

Moses literally met God in a dream. That's obvious. (Numbers 12:6)

 

[Apple7]

All right Apple, thank you for correcting me and, be patient with my English as it is to me the third, not even the second language. I understood your correction. Obviously, if I say, "Jewish Replacement Theology", we are the ones causing it. If the policy is Pauline, logically, the right way to say is "Christian Replacement Theology.

No.

Paul states, point-blank, that he is a Jew in the NT.

Thus, if you want to promote your so-called 'Replacement Theology', then it must refer to Jewish Replacement Theology, as a Jew is most certainly the perpetrator.

 

[Ben Masada]

No.

Paul states, point-blank, that he is a Jew in the NT.

Thus, if you want to promote your so-called 'Replacement Theology', then it must refer to Jewish Replacement Theology, as a Jew is most certainly the perpetrator.

That was Paul's nice try to think that he would remain a Jew after he founded an anti-Jewish religion. According to Jewish tradition, when a Jew deserts Judaism to become a member of another faith, especially so anti-Jewish as Christianity has been to the Jews throughout History by means of pogroms, blood libels, Crusades, Inquisition and the Holocaust he ceased being a Jew. Paul was no longer a Jew from that day in Antioch when Christians started being called Christians for the first time as a result of Paul's teaching for a whole year in the Nazarene Synagogue of the Jews. Read Acts 11:26.

This phenomenon of a former Jew demanding the Jewish identity while belonging to another religion was a big problem for Prophet Elijah to deal with. Former Jews straddling the issue between HaShem and Baal. They became known as "Jews-for-Baal." (I Kings 18:19,21) Elijah ended up by executing 850 of them.

 

[Apple7]

That was Paul's nice try to think that he would remain a Jew after he founded an anti-Jewish religion. According to Jewish tradition, when a Jew deserts Judaism to become a member of another faith, especially so anti-Jewish as Christianity has been to the Jews throughout History by means of pogroms, blood libels, Crusades, Inquisition and the Holocaust he ceased being a Jew. Paul was no longer a Jew from that day in Antioch when Christians started being called Christians for the first time as a result of Paul's teaching for a whole year in the Nazarene Synagogue of the Jews. Read Acts 11:26.

This phenomenon of a former Jew demanding the Jewish identity while belonging to another religion was a big problem for Prophet Elijah to deal with. Former Jews straddling the issue between HaShem and Baal. They became known as "Jews-for-Baal." (I Kings 18:19,21) Elijah ended up by executing 850 of them.

Here are Paul's very own words spoken long after the disciples were called Christians...

But Paul said, Indeed I am a man, a Jew of Tarsus, of Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city. And I beg you, allow me to speak to the people. Acts 21.39


Thus...you have no choice but to acknowledge that you adhere to a supposed 'replacement theology' instigated by a Jew.