Thanks Bob

[drbrumley]

Hi ya folks.

I took a little time for myself lately and really haven't been on. Did some more researching and listening to Ron Paul. Called his Congressional office to speak to him, of course he was busy but did have the opportunity to speak to his chief of staff.

And I will give credit to where credit is due. Bob Enyart was right. He most definitely is pro abortion state by state. Frankly I was disappointed. Still am I guess. Someone so right on every issue, but this. And this issue alone will not allow me to cast my vote for Ron Paul. I like the man, he has great ideas, but not this one.

But he is by far the Republicans best choice. Obviously though, I will not be voting Republican this year, once again.

So thank you Bob. You set me some food for thought. Much appreciated.

DRBrumley

 

[kmoney]

doc, what do you know now that you didn't know before?

 

[drbrumley]

doc, what do you know now that you didn't know before?

Well, KMO, I was under the impression the the Sanctity of Life bill would put the unborn under constitutional protection. Obviously it doesn't, even though life would be deemed to exist from fertalization. So basically, even though it would be admitted life is in the womb, if any state decided to allow for the murder of he/she, there would be nothing we could do about it.

 

[Nang]

Well, KMO, I was under the impression the the Sanctity of Life bill would put the unborn under constitutional protection. Obviously it doesn't, even though life would be deemed to exist from fertalization. So basically, even though it would be admitted life is in the womb, if any state decided to allow for the murder of he/she, there would be nothing we could do about it.

Is that fault to be laid upon Ron Paul? Is a solution expected to manifest from any political (mortal) individual?

Is this not a problem that the people (by the grace of God) must solve, independent of any politician?

Is not the blame for this horrible dilemma, the heart sins of men at large?

Nang

 

[elected4ever]

Is that fault to be laid upon Ron Paul? Is a solution expected to manifest from any political (mortal) individual?

Is this not a problem that the people (by the grace of God) must solve, independent of any politician?

Is not the blame for this horrible dilemma, the heart sins of men at large?

Nang

I am also struggling with the same issue. I agree with about 80% of what Ron Paul suggest but on this issue the libertarian view does not work well. For an explanation of that see my open letter to Bob Enyart..

 

[kmoney]

Well, KMO, I was under the impression the the Sanctity of Life bill would put the unborn under constitutional protection. Obviously it doesn't, even though life would be deemed to exist from fertalization. So basically, even though it would be admitted life is in the womb, if any state decided to allow for the murder of he/she, there would be nothing we could do about it.

To get Constitutional protection, wouldn't it take more than just a bill?

 

[drbrumley]

Is that fault to be laid upon Ron Paul?

What fault are you speaking of? Allowing the states to allow/disallow abortion?

If I was in the House, I could not write a bill with that in it.

Is a solution expected to manifest from any political (mortal) individual?

I don't believe so.

Is this not a problem that the people (by the grace of God) must solve, independent of any politician?

Yes

Is not the blame for this horrible dilemma, the heart sins of men at large?

Yes

 

[Adam]

Hi ya folks.

I took a little time for myself lately and really haven't been on. Did some more researching and listening to Ron Paul. Called his Congressional office to speak to him, of course he was busy but did have the opportunity to speak to his chief of staff.

And I will give credit to where credit is due. Bob Enyart was right. He most definitely is pro abortion state by state. Frankly I was disappointed. Still am I guess. Someone so right on every issue, but this. And this issue alone will not allow me to cast my vote for Ron Paul. I like the man, he has great ideas, but not this one.

But he is by far the Republicans best choice. Obviously though, I will not be voting Republican this year, once again.

So thank you Bob. You set me some food for thought. Much appreciated.

DRBrumley

Thanks for sharing. What are your objections to Alan Keyes?

 

[kmoney]

But he is by far the Republicans best choice. Obviously though, I will not be voting Republican this year, once again.

Is abortion the issue that you must agree with someone to vote for? If there was a candidate that did what you wanted with abortion, but just about everything else you were against, would you vote for that person?

 

[elected4ever]

Thanks for sharing. What are your objections to Alan Keyes?

Do you mean other than the fact that Alan Keys is a total jerk. and will through those who are pro life and who have a difference of oppenion in how to deal with the problem of abortion under the bus.

 

[elected4ever]

This is an interview by Judy Woodruff on NPTV. Scroll down to the Abortion issue http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec07/paul_10-12.html

 

[BillyBob]

Obviously though, I will not be voting Republican this year, once again.

Hillary sends her thanks.

 

[The Berean]

Hillary sends her thanks.

BillyBob, isn't this place where you are supposed to say:

Vote Thompson in '08!!!!

 

[BillyBob]

BillyBob, isn't this place where you are supposed to say:

Vote Thompson in '08!!!!

Doc isn't voting Republican, so I thought I'd remind him of the outcome....

'President Hillary Clinton' :vomit:

 

[CRASH]

Hi ya folks.

I took a little time for myself lately and really haven't been on. Did some more researching and listening to Ron Paul. Called his Congressional office to speak to him, of course he was busy but did have the opportunity to speak to his chief of staff.

And I will give credit to where credit is due. Bob Enyart was right. He most definitely is pro abortion state by state. Frankly I was disappointed. Still am I guess. Someone so right on every issue, but this. And this issue alone will not allow me to cast my vote for Ron Paul. I like the man, he has great ideas, but not this one.

But he is by far the Republicans best choice. Obviously though, I will not be voting Republican this year, once again.

So thank you Bob. You set me some food for thought. Much appreciated.

DRBrumley

Hey Doc, thanks for being open on this. :first: I think Alan Keyes is the man to support.

 

[kmoney]

What fault are you speaking of? Allowing the states to allow/disallow abortion?

If I was in the House, I could not write a bill with that in it.

doc, if you thought Paul was going to constitutionally protect the unborn, then in what way would he be making it a state issue?

 

[PKevman]

Support Alan Keyes!

Support Alan Keyes!

Why not Keyes? He is a Godly man running under no pretenses and no phony politics. He's a Biblical Christian for real and not a phony pseudo-Christian who pretends to be a person of faith to get votes.

 

[elected4ever]

Why not Keyes? He is a Godly man running under no pretenses and no phony politics. He's a Biblical Christian for real and not a phony pseudo-Christian who pretends to be a person of faith to get votes.

Allen Keys is an occultist not a christian. No one who believes that works saves is a christian

 

[sopwith21]

The Truth About Ron Paul's "Pro-abortion" Stance

The Truth About Ron Paul's "Pro-abortion" Stance

A sad history lesson that most Christians ignore...

Millions of babies have died because of an illegal, poorly conceived, knee-jerk anti-abortion strategy at the federal level and these Christians will answer to God for what they have wrought.

In 1970, Norma McCovey sued in the state court of Texas for the "right" to abort a baby. The court ruled in Mccovey's favor, however, the state court refused to overturn state laws against abortion in Texas. The state court only permitted her to have the right to abort her own baby in her own personal situation.

Not satisfied with their limited victory, McCovey's lawyers asked the federal supreme court to hear their appeal. If the federal courts had stayed out of it according to constitutional law, only McCovey would have been able to have an abortion... not even every woman in Texas, let alone the entire nation. Only McCovey.

Christians around America, in an ill conceived and illegal attempt at getting instant gratification regardless of the cost, supported the supreme court's hearing the case in the hopes that they could subvert the constitution and by doing so, stamp out abortion forever.

Roe v Wade was born, and the case backfired.

Thanks in large part to American Christians, the supreme court did hear the case but didn't give us the ruling we wanted. As a result, instead of one woman having one abortion, tens of millions of babies have been slaughtered for decades.

Oops.

Since that tragic day, Christians have repeatedly tried to same illegal, incompetent, unconstitutional tactics and suffered setback after setback for three decades. Babies continue to die while we sail ignorantly down the road to statism, stupidly hoping that the very government that allows the murders will somehow magically switch sides.

The American church will answer to God for the murder of these children and for deliberately subverting the constitutional law that could have saved them.

But wait... it gets worse...

Illinois, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Dakota and South Dakota have already passed laws outlawing abortion which are now on the books, but until the federal decision - the federal decision that Christians on this forum so desperately pushed for - is overturned these laws cannot take effect. Thanks largely to the incompetence of American Christians who wanted the federal government to illegally step into a state case, millions of babies are dying in these states who would otherwise have lived.

We've thrown away millions of lives on our arrogant, illegal tactics that have had forty years to produce results yet accomplish nothing.

These people will one day stand before God and answer for that and for their deception of God's people, and God will be in no mood to hear their lame double-
talk answers.

But wait, it gets worse...

And now, when Ron Paul wants to overturn Roe v Wade and return the decision to
the states where it lawfully belongs and where at least six states can immediately outlaw abortion, Christians on this forum call him a "child murderer" and do everything in their power to oppose his candidacy?

Its no wonder the world thinks that Christians are idiots.

 

[elected4ever]

A sad history lesson that most Christians ignore...

Millions of babies have died because of an illegal, poorly conceived, knee-jerk anti-abortion strategy at the federal level and these Christians will answer to God for what they have wrought.

In 1970, Norma McCovey sued in the state court of Texas for the "right" to abort a baby. The court ruled in Mccovey's favor, however, the state court refused to overturn state laws against abortion in Texas. The state court only permitted her to have the right to abort her own baby in her own personal situation.

Not satisfied with their limited victory, McCovey's lawyers asked the federal supreme court to hear their appeal. If the federal courts had stayed out of it according to constitutional law, only McCovey would have been able to have an abortion... not even every woman in Texas, let alone the entire nation. Only McCovey.

Christians around America, in an ill conceived and illegal attempt at getting instant gratification regardless of the cost, supported the supreme court's hearing the case in the hopes that they could subvert the constitution and by doing so, stamp out abortion forever.

Roe v Wade was born, and the case backfired.

Thanks in large part to American Christians, the supreme court did hear the case but didn't give us the ruling we wanted. As a result, instead of one woman having one abortion, tens of millions of babies have been slaughtered for decades.

Oops.

Since that tragic day, Christians have repeatedly tried to same illegal, incompetent, unconstitutional tactics and suffered setback after setback for three decades. Babies continue to die while we sail ignorantly down the road to statism, stupidly hoping that the very government that allows the murders will somehow magically switch sides.

The American church will answer to God for the murder of these children and for deliberately subverting the constitutional law that could have saved them.

But wait... it gets worse...

Illinois, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Dakota and South Dakota have already passed laws outlawing abortion which are now on the books, but until the federal decision - the federal decision that Christians on this forum so desperately pushed for - is overturned these laws cannot take effect. Thanks largely to the incompetence of American Christians who wanted the federal government to illegally step into a state case, millions of babies are dying in these states who would otherwise have lived.

We've thrown away millions of lives on our arrogant, illegal tactics that have had forty years to produce results yet accomplish nothing.

These people will one day stand before God and answer for that and for their deception of God's people, and God will be in no mood to hear their lame double-
talk answers.

But wait, it gets worse...

And now, when Ron Paul wants to overturn Roe v Wade and return the decision to
the states where it lawfully belongs and where at least six states can immediately outlaw abortion, Christians on this forum call him a "child murderer" and do everything in their power to oppose his candidacy?

Its no wonder the world thinks that Christians are idiots.

There is a lot of truth to what you say. If the court was not engaged on the subject then the 14th amendment would never have been applied. Now that it has then we are left to deal with the consequence. Row v wade was not new law. It just enforced existing law. No statute can overturn the constitution. The only remedy is a constitutional amendment that gives the same rights to the unborn as those of the born. This is not a states rights issue. I use to think so but not anymore. it is a constitutional issue.