Should we pay tithes to be bless and free?

[c.moore]

I do believe in tithes myself ; and we teach this doctrine time after time.

I just got through reading this link about tithes and it gave me second thoughts.

http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=161

So many people say it is not in the new testament and can`t be found , plus it is the old law and we are not under the OT , but the 10% is finished paid at the cross through Jesus .

What is you opinion or belief on this??

I might be confussed on this but I do stand on what the bible say`s here :Mal:3:8: Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Mal:3:9: Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
Mal:3:10: Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
Mal:3:11: And I will rebuke the devourer for your s

So when I don`t pay my tithes I feel condemned and curse, and my prayers are stoped and not answered, and I am not blessed and can`t bless others.
A matter of fact some people in my church say they are not even allowed to seat with me because I am a thief if I don`t pay tithes, or any one else who doesn`t pay tithes can`t preach at our church even as a pastor or leader.

I need help on this because i HAVE A big heritance will coming from my father death, so I want to pay tithes on this to my church but have a hard time trying to pay over $40.000 for tithes to my church in peace.
My wife has a greater problem and is in disagreement and lack of faith in giving tithes so it is a problem in my family as one in agreement in giving tithes.

if someone has more proof on this we need all the proof we can get.


God Bless

 

[Sozo]

Why do you keep rehasing this subject over and over ad nauseam?

Jesus is our tithe.

The tithe has been paid!

 

[Crow]

c.moore--

Personally, I equate paying tithes with baptism. Are we, as Christians, chained to works and the Law? No.

That does not mean that we don't support our churches. It means that we should support our churches as we relate to each other. Not by a set of rules, but out of the Spirit working through us, guiding us.

Tithes were a requirement of the circumcision. You and I are dead to the Law. If you observe the way funds are gathered by the apostles after the crucifixion, it was done by freewill offerings. And that is how we should support our churches.

 

[Crow]

c.moore--

If you pay tithes, you might as well add in that baptism and circumcision and adherence to the dietary laws are necessary--all are of the circumcision and the Law.

Certainly we should support our churches, but through freewill offerings, not by clinging to a Law that is not applicable to those of us dead to the Law by grace.

We should support our churches because of the Spirit working through us.

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Crow

c.moore--

If you pay tithes, you might as well add in that baptism and circumcision and adherence to the dietary laws is necessary--all are of the circumcision and the Law.

Certainly we should support our churches, but through freewill offerings, not by clinging to a Law that is not applicable to those of us dead to the Law by grace.

We should support our churches because of the Spirit working through us.

What :crow: said :thumb:

...and the fact that Jesus is our tithe; the tithe has been paid!

 

[c.moore]

Why do Charismatic churches teach this , and claim those who don´t pay it is cursed , and they are thieves?

Also they say it is not a law it is a way of showing your love to God , and´the tithes belong to God in the first place.

Why people fall under condemnation when the tithes are not payed??

 

[Lighthouse]

Thank you. I needed this.

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by c.moore

Why do Charismatic churches teach this , and claim those who don´t pay it is cursed , and they are thieves?

Because the heirarchy of the "Charismatic" churches are in the business of being blessed by those whom they choose to control through their false teachings.

Also they say it is not a law it is a way of showing your love to God , and´the tithes belong to God in the first place.

If ever there were an evil form of manipulation, what you just said is it!

btw... Just so you know, "manipulation" is just another word for witchcraft

Why people fall under condemnation when the tithes are not payed??

Because the people in the charismatic chrurches (for the most part), are under the mind control of those whom they listen to, rather than the Holy Spirit. However, it is their own fault, because the majority of people in the charismatic churches are there because they want something from God, and are not there for God.

 

[BillyBob]

I once talked with a guy who was a Pentecostal. He walked me through his house and showed me what God had 'bought' for him. He said that it was his reward and if I wanted to improve my monetary status, I had to go to church with him and learn more. I went to his church on my own....once. It was a trip! The 'Pastor' talked mainly about money, tithes and rewards from God. The people were whipped into a frenzy, stood up and started chanting and caterwauling. It sounded just like an 'Indian War Party' preparing for battle.

I got the hell out of there as fast as I could.

 

[elected4ever]

Tithing under the law was 22.5% and not 10 % So the idea of a tithe in todays churches is a figment of someones imagination. It is just designed to get you to give a certain amount so that they can keep there books easer. Using the law to put someone on a guilt trip so he will give is coercion.

The giving to get heresy is just that heresy. What is it that God the Father will not give to his children that He would give if they tithe. God loves His children. I have three grand children that I love. I buy thinks and feed them because of who they are not for what I require from them. I am sure the blessings of God are based on my relationship to Him. Not what he requires of me. I am His child.

My grand children don't have anything I need so why require it of them? Where would they get it anyway? What do they have that they did not receive from me. What do I have that I did not receive? My grandchildren do give me things but they give them to me because they love me because I first loved them I give things to God because I love Him . I love Him because He first loved me.

Did you ever see a child's face when you make a fuse over some little effort they made to make you happy. I'm sure the Father is the same way. The children's effort was not given by demand but because of love. They just had a bad case of I wont too and it is the same with God.

 

[godrulz]

Originally posted by Sozo

Why do you keep rehasing this subject over and over ad nauseam?

Jesus is our tithe.

The tithe has been paid!

Paul taught systematic and proportionate giving in 2 Cor. 8 and 9

Jesus did not pay our tithe. Only we can give to the ministry of the Gospel. If we quit giving, there would be no missions, leadership, churches, Bibles, etc.

Giving more than a tip to God reflects stewardship and His Lordship in our lives. It is an act of worship and an important step of obedience. The principles of giving and the law were not rescinded in the NT. We should still honor our parents, not steal, not lust, etc. The moral law of God was not dissolved on the cross. Much of the ceremonial law for Jews is not applicable for us.

The tithe predated the Law (Genesis= Melchizedek). It is a solid guideline for all believers. It is not a legalism, but something we do cheerfully with a motive of love for God and others. We do not give to get (wrong motive). It is not a formula, but an expression of love and obedience.

One of my profs did a doctoral thesis on tithing. The evidence and final conclusion pointed to the reasonableness of tithing as a guideline for NT believers.

God is not broke. He does not need our money. There is no use giving to Him (we are not giving to man) if we do not have the right motive. It is unfortunate that ministry is hindered by the selfishness of believers. Let us not be like the churches that need bingos and bake sales to keep afloat (non-tithers), while cults like Mormons (tithers) grow and thrive.

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by godrulz

Paul taught systematic and proportionate giving in 2 Cor.

Verse, please.

Jesus did not pay our tithe

The portion, sanctifies the whole. Jesus is our tithe. Maybe not yours, however.

Only we can give to the ministry of the Gospel. If we quit giving, there would be no missions, leadership, churches, Bibles, etc.

Nobody said anything about not giving.

Giving more than a tip to God reflects stewardship and His Lordship in our lives

Verse, please.

It is an act of worship and an important step of obedience.

Verse, please.

The principles of giving and the law were not rescinded in the NT.

So when was the last time you sacrificed a goat for your sins?

The moral law of God was not dissolved on the cross. Much of the ceremonial law for Jews is not applicable for us.

You have no biblical support for such a stupid comment.

The tithe predated the Law (Genesis= Melchizedek). It is a solid guideline for all believers.

The only other time "tithe" is referred to is the incident where Abraham paid a tenth of his goods to Melchizedek. However that was a one time gift Abraham gave of his own free will as a public act of thanksgiving for a military victory, not as an act of obedience to a command of God. Furthermore, the fact that something was practiced before the Law does not make it a permanent command of God. If we use Abraham as an example for tithing then we need to follow him in other areas as well, such as circumcision and animal sacrifice. It's funny that those last two areas are rarely mentioned along with tithing. (Gen. 14, 15 & 16) The real point of this incident as quoted in the New Testament is to show the supremacy of our priesthood in Christ represented by Melchizedek over the priesthood of Levi, a descendent of Abraham. (Hebrews 7:1-10)

...Bob George

It is not a legalism

A phrase commonly used by legalists.

 

[c.moore]

But what does the New Testament say about tithes

Not a lot. In fact the only references to tithing in the New Testament are Matthew 23:23, Luke 11:42, Luke 18:12 and Hebrew 7: 5 - 9.



1. Who was the first person to tithe?
2. Who told Abraham to tithe?
3. What is the relationship between tihes and offering?
4. What does the law have to do with tithing?
5. What were tithes used for in the Old Testament?
6. Do we still have these needs in the body of Christ today?
7. What do 'first fruits' and 'tithes' have in common?
8. What does the New Testament say about tithing?
9. Should a Christian give money to the work of God?
10. How much should a Christian constantly give to God's work?
11. What blessings are there to giving money to God's work?
12. Should we give less or more than they did in the Old Testament?
13. If we give ten percent of our income, could we, even with God's grace, still manage to survive on the rest?
14. Is God's work worth ten percent?
15. Can you explain Luke 16: 13 - 16 ?
16. Why do some Christians find it hard to give to God's work

also here are some question we should think about or that we are left with to study and know.


God Bless

 

[godrulz]

Re: Should we pay tithes to be bless and free?

Originally posted by c.moore

I do believe in tithes myself ; and we teach this doctrine time after time.

I just got through reading this link about tithes and it gave me second thoughts.

http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=161

The churches represented by this link deny the Deity of Christ. They quote Unitarian websites to deny this and the Trinity. They may have connections with the old Way International (cult).

There are better academic sources about tithing from a Christian perspective than the ramblings of a non-Christian group.

 

[Sozo]

Re: Re: Should we pay tithes to be bless and free?

Re: Re: Should we pay tithes to be bless and free?

Originally posted by godrulz

The churches represented by this link deny the Deity of Christ. They quote Unitarian websites to deny this and the Trinity. They may have connections with the old Way International (cult).

There are better academic sources about tithing from a Christian perspective than the ramblings of a non-Christian group.

Yeah, you could try the cult that godrulz is a member!

 

[c.moore]

Re: Re: Should we pay tithes to be bless and free?

Re: Re: Should we pay tithes to be bless and free?

Originally posted by godrulz

The churches represented by this link deny the Deity of Christ. They quote Unitarian websites to deny this and the Trinity. They may have connections with the old Way International (cult).

There are better academic sources about tithing from a Christian perspective than the ramblings of a non-Christian group.

Do you know some good links on this subject it is very important for me and my family.

I am at the same time asking God to show me in truth the understanding of giving tithes in a deeper level without being under a law or legalism doctrine.


God Bless

 

[c.moore]

Re: Re: Re: Should we pay tithes to be bless and free?

Re: Re: Re: Should we pay tithes to be bless and free?

Originally posted by Sozo

Yeah, you could try the cult that godrulz is a member!

what cult does he belong too??:think:

Is he catholic, Mormon, JHW, SDA or Muslim or Budda?

 

[godrulz]

2 Cor. 8 and 9 PRINCIPLES of giving (e.g. not under compulsion, systematic, etc.)

I Cor. 16:2 "On the first day of the week (systematic), each one of you should set aside a sum of money (systematic) in keeping with his income (proportionate), saving it up (purposeful)..."

If you put together ALL the relevant verses on tithing and properly understand the atonement, the Law, principles vs legalisms, etc....tithing comes out as a reasonable guideline for the explicit principle of giving.

Check you heart and mind...this is between the individual conscience and God.

"Not how much of MY money will I give to GOD, BUT, how much of GOD'S money will I keep for myself?" - missionary statesman Oswald J. Smith

It is the Lord's tithe and my offerings. Alms are the last category and go beyond this. Generosity honors God; greed dishonors God. Seek first and invest in His kingdom more than this life (Mt. 6).

Acts 20:35 "It is more blessed to give than to receive."

Legalistic questions about tithing (gross vs net; does it have to be 10%, etc.) miss the stewardship and heart of the matter.

If you do not tithe as a minimum to God, what do you use as a guideline? Do you drop $1 in the plate (this is not proportionate to income...remember the little lady Jesus commended and the Pharisees that He rebuked?) at Christmas only (this is not systematic= beginning of the week).

There is an academic issue here: what does the Bible teach on giving by way of principles?

There is a discipleship issue here: Do I have the selfish mentality of the pagan culture, or do I honor God even with my time, talents, AND treasures?

 

[elected4ever]

Should we pay tithes to be bless and free? c. moore, what makes you think that a child of God is not blessed and free? What makes you think that we need to pay tithes in order to be blessed and free? What blessings and what freedoms should we expect to gain by titheing that is not ours at present?

 

[godrulz]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Should we pay tithes to be bless and free?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Should we pay tithes to be bless and free?

Originally posted by c.moore

what cult does he belong too??:think:

Is he catholic, Mormon, JHW, SDA or Muslim or Budda?

Evangelical, Protestant Christian.

Conservative Pentecostal (in belief and experience). (equivalent of U.S. Assemblies of God)

Would agree with most statements of faith (essentials) by traditional Christian groups like Baptist, Anglican, Lutheran. Agree with great creeds of the Christian church.

Do not deny the Deity of Christ, etc. like cults do.


Sozo, what church, cult, religion do you identify with and is the understanding of giving principles a salvific issue (hint: NO!).