Should homosexuals be given the death penalty?

Should homosexuals be given the death penalty?


  • Total voters
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Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
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Sorry this post is such a mess. I'm new to the forums and haven't quite figured out how to snip quotes from posts and their replies (sorry, been up late and I'm tired)...so I just alternated font colors and hopefully its intelligible.
At the bottom of the post, click on the "quote" button. Then, to separate points put "quote" at the beginning inside of "[]" and "/quote" At the end, inside of "[]

I can see no pragmatic social benefit in criminalizing homosexuality. Only if its a case of rape or abuse, and neither of those are commited exclusively by homosexuals, they are just as prevailant if not moreso amongst people who identify themselves as straight.
Then maybe you should consider the possibility you might be wrong.

That is implying that the subjective beliefs of your religion should be legislated by law as if this were a theocracy. Well sorry, this isn't a theocracy. Muslims and I'm sure all kinds of really fringe sects out there believe in all sorts of do's and donts and shall nots, many of which I'm sure you wouldn't agree with or want legislated. A society like ours that respects freedom of religion and conscience cannot and should not pick and choose which religious laws to put on the books and which not to, since none of them can be proven or disproven as divinely inspired anyhow and there's no objective way to establish that one is more likely to be true than the next. That is just one legal morass waiting to happen, its impractical, totally unfair and flagratly unamerican.
No, this isn't a theocracy. And all I'm saying is that I'd rather live in one.

You are free to believe that 'God said it', but in case you haven't noticed not everyone shares that belief...I hope you have thought about that. You're putting me in the same position as you yourself would be in if a Muslim said that this country should pass a law requiring you to wear a burka because THEY believe that their god says you should. Of course you don't believe that and would oppose such a law.
They don't believe I should either. Being that I'm male.

I can see where this is going, the old conflict between moral absolutism and moral pragmatism/relativism/social contract worldview. I realize that you believe that morals are absolute and that they come from the god of the Bible. All I can do is agree to disagree with you on that one. In my view civic codes of behavior are a matter of nessecity more than anything else, to keep general order and quality of life.
And homosexuality goes against order and quality of life.
Things that should be deemed criminal in my view are mainly those which deal with violating a person's free will, maliciously threaten their life against their will, steal or destroy their property against their will, etc.
Nothing violates anyone's free will. Things can only violate ability.
I cannot see any practical reason to criminalize sexual preference when its between consenting persons of legal age, where no one is being harmed against their will, when its a private matter between adults.
It's not the preference God said should be criminal.:nono:
You might view flamboyant artistic people with good taste in home decorating and fashion who enjoy show tunes as some kind of dire threat to the well being of society all you want, but I can't think of one justifiable reason to criminalize them. And I do think these things through.
I happen to be very artistic, and have good taste in fashion. You are a bigot. You have just made a stereotypical blanket judgment that all people like that are homosexuals. You're sick.
 

red77

New member
Some things are so wrong, that "private lives" are no longer an option. Some things are so immoral that those who commit them are, in effect, forsaking their right to privacy. And Adultery is one of those things.

I am sick of your pompous judgemental legalism, the only things that are 'so immoral' enough to warrant state intervention into peoples private lives are murder,manslaughter,abuse,violence, rape and any type of violation that happens, the private relationships of people aside from those are private and just that, nothing to do with me, you or the state, get over it....


No one can give any support as to why certain aspects of that law should no longer apply. In fact, as has been established, everyone agrees that certain laws that happen to be in that code are good for all societies, and should be laws everywhere, such as "Do not murder." No one here thinks that murder should be legal. And they all think it should be punishable in some way. Even those who argue against the death penalty on the grounds that Jesus died for our sins. Of course, they fail in that because they contradict themselves when they say those people should be punished. Because the bottom line is that Jesus not only died for our sins, He was punished for them too. And they also fail in that it was for our sins that He died, and not our crimes. And in the end, the only thing anyone seems to really have a problem with is the idea that adultery and homosexuality should be illegal, let alone punishable by execution. And your argument that it's barbaric now, and wasn't barbaric then is a load of crap. And you can't logically back it up.

Yes LH, there was nothing whatsoever harsh about OT times, medieval times etc, life was one long picnic :doh: women should probably still be disallowed to vote? Things and societies can progress, apparently you just dont want them to

And the reason I call you idiot, moron, twit, etc. is not because you disagree with me, but because you don't even take the time to think things through. You don't even try to consider how adultery, murder because of adultery, and divorce because of adultery would go down. Liberals are very fond of calling conservatives "reactionary." But when it comes down to it, they are the ones who are reacting without thinking. And by "they," I mean you.

No LH, the reason why you call me (and several others) moron and idiot is because you are yet mature enough to debate without reducing yourself to ad homs, if divorce rates "go down" it's because the marriage rate itself drops, make sense? :idea: forcing people to stay in relationships that are no longer working would likely end up in domestic breakdown, you're yet to answer how cohabiting could be avoided and are still naive enough to think that the marriage rate would somehow be unaffected, I'm afraid you're the one who still needs to think things through.....


What makes you spineless is your refusal to stand up for God's command. And the fact that you can't even say that God was barbaric for commanding something you consider to be barbaric.

i've answered it before you and God, only one judgement on that matters, you can say and judge as you will, if thinking that it takes guts to spill out another person's with stones then it's truly as sickening as it is sad.....


If the Muslims take over, then it will be beyond what I believe God wants.

if any fanatical nutball regime takes over it'll probably be an offence to sneeze in public....
 

Pythia

New member
Thank you for explaining how to do the quote thing, lite.
I guess the intended comic relief about flamboyant gays didn't go over well, but an old fag hag like me doesn't mind being called bigoted against gays.

I'm sorry I thought you were a female, that doesn't mean I think you're effeminate. I guess it was the screen name.

I hope you find your theocracy, I'm just glad it will never be the country I happen to live in.
 

YahuShuan

New member
Pythia states in post #3401paragraph 6..."That is implying that the subjective beliefs of your religion should be legislated by law as if this were a theocracy. Well sorry, this isn't a theocracy. Muslims and I'm sure all kinds of really fringe sects out there believe in all sorts of do's and donts and shall nots, many of which I'm sure you wouldn't agree with or want legislated. A society like ours that respects freedom of religion and conscience cannot and should not pick and choose which religious laws to put on the books and which not to, since none of them can be proven or disproven as divinely inspired anyhow and there's no objective way to establish that one is more likely to be true than the next. That is just one legal morass waiting to happen, its impractical, totally unfair and flagratly unamerican."

Flagrantly UN-American??? Boy are you way off. The "Founding Fathers" and Presidents Whole heartedly DISAGREE WITH YOU, over and over...

"I do believe in Almighty God! And I believe also in the Bible...Let us look forward to the time when we can take the flag of our country and nail it below the Cross, and there let it wave as it waved in the olden times, and let us gather around it and inscribed for our motto: "Liberty and Union, one and inseparable, now and forever," and exclaim, Christ first, our country next!" – Andrew Jackson

"Almighty God hath created the mind free. All attempts to influence it temporal punishments or burdens...are a departure from the plan of the Holy Author of our religion. No men shall...suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief, but all men shall be free to profess and by argument to maintain, their opinion in matters of religion. I know but one code of morality for men whether acting singly or collectively. Commerce between master and slave is despotism. Nothing is more certainly written in the Book of Life than that these people are to be free.
The precepts of philosophy and of the Hebrew code, laid hold of actions only. Jesus pushed his scrutinies into the heart of man, erected his tribunal in the regions of his thoughts, and purified the waters at the fountain head." – Thomas Jefferson

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever." --Thomas Jefferson

"Whereas, the Senate of the United States devoutly recognizing the Supreme Authority and just Government of Almighty God in all the affairs of men and of nations, has, by a resolution, requested the President to designate and set apart a day for national prayer and humiliation: And whereas, it is the duty of nations as well as of men to own their dependence upon the overruling power of God, to confess their sins and transgressions in humble sorrow yet with assured hope that genuine repentance will lead to mercy and pardon, and to recognize the sublime truth, announced in the Holy Scriptures and proven by all history: that those nations only are blessed whose God is the Lord..." --Abraham Lincoln

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible" --George Washington

"So great is my veneration for the Bible that the earlier my children begin to read it the more confident will be my hope that they will prove useful citizens of their country and respectable members of society..." --John Quincy Adams

"That book, sir, is the rock on which our republic rests" --Andrew Jackson

"I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given man. All the good from the Savior of the world is communicated to us through this book. But for it we could not know right from wrong" --Abraham Lincoln

President Lincoln was also noted as saying: "It is the duty of nations as well as men to recognize the truth announced in Holy Scripture and proven by all of history that those nations only are blessed whose God is the Lord."

"Hold fast to the Bible as the sheet anchor of your liberties. Write its precepts in your hearts, and practice them in your lives. To the influence of this book are we indebted for all the progress made in true civilization, and to this we must look as our guide in the future. Righteousness exalteth a nation, but sin is a 2 reproach to any people" --Ulysses S. Grant

"If you take out of your statutes, your constitution, your family life all that is taken from the Sacred Book, what would there be left to bind society together?" --Benjamin Harrison

"Almost every man who has by his life-work added to the sum of human achievement of which the race is proud, of which our people are proud, almost every such man has based his life-work largely upon the teachings of the Bible" --Theodore Roosevelt


I'm really sick on hearing about the Freedom of Religion...it was OUR RELIGION of OUR HOLY SCRIPTURES and NO BODY ELSES! ALL OTHERS...Get OUT!!! (hey, it's my opinion eh.)

More info here...
 

Pythia

New member
I'm totally aware that the founders and many people who have held office in this country have believed in the Bible, quoted the bible, talked about it, etc. That doesn't mean that this country is or ever was a theocracy. Legally, its not. I have the same rights and freedoms under our laws as any Christian. Sorry if that bothers you, but hey....free country

BTW, some of the founders were Deists and Freemasons.
 

YahuShuan

New member
“It can not be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists,
but by Christians, not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ.”
- Patrick Henry
 

Pythia

New member
Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814, responding to the claim that Chritianity was part of the Common Law of England, as the United States Constitution defaults to the Common Law regarding matters that it does not address. This argument is still used today by "Christian Nation" revisionists who do not admit to having read Thomas Jefferson's thorough research of this matter.




Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82



All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will, to be rightful, must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal laws must protect, and to violate which would be oppression.
-- Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1801

And let us reflect that, having banished from our land that religious intolerance under which mankind so long bled and suffered, we have yet gained little if we countenance a political intolerance as despotic, as wicked, and capable of as bitter and bloody persecutions.... error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.... I deem the essential principles of our government.... Equal and exact justice to all men, of whatever state or persuasion, religious or political; ... freedom of religion, freedom of the press, and freedom of person under the protection of the habeas corpus, and trial by juries impartially selected.
-- Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1801
From the dissensions among Sects themselves arise necessarily a right of choosing and necessity of deliberating to which we will conform. But if we choose for ourselves, we must allow others to choose also, and so reciprocally, this establishes religious liberty.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Religion, 1776. Papers, 1:545




The most sacred of the duties of a government [is] to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens.
-- Thomas Jefferson, note in Destutt de Tracy, "Political Economy," 1816. ME 14:465

To unequal privileges among members of the same society the spirit of our nation is, with one accord, adverse."
-- Thomas Jefferson, to Hugh White, 1801. ME 10:258

am for freedom of religion, & against all maneuvres to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Elbridge Gerry, 1799 (

If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. These found it wrong in the bishops, but fell into the same practice themselves both here and in New England.
-- Benjamin Franklin, An Essay on Toleration


Every new & successful example of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance.
-- James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston,
And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.
-- James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822, in Saul K Padover, ed., The Complete Madison: His Basic Writings (1953), also; from Jack N Rakove, ed., James Madison: Writings, (1999), p. 789, quoted from Ed and Michael Buckner, "Quotations that Support the Separation of State and Church"

The civil government ... functions with complete success ... by the total separation of the Church from the State.
-- James Madison, 1819, Writings, 8:432, quoted from Gene Garman, "Essays In Addition to America's Real Religion"

I have ever regarded the freedom of religious opinions and worship as equally belonging to every sect.
-- James Madison, letter to Mordecai Noah, May 15, 1818, from Albert J Menendez and Edd Doerr, The Great Quotations on Religious Freedom
I have always strenuously supported the right of every man to his own opinion, however different that opinion might be to mine. He who denies another this right makes a slave of himself to his present opinion, because he precludes himself the right of changing it.
-- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason (1794), quoted from Laird Wilcox, ed., The Writer's Rights (2002) p. 31
Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law. Take away the law-establishment, and every religion re-assumes its original benignity.
-- Thomas Paine, The Rights of Man, 1791
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.
-- Thomas Paine, (1737-1809), The Age of Reason, pt. 1, "The Author's Profession of Faith" (1794), quoted from The Columbia Dictionary of Quotations





My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them.
-- Abraham Lincoln, to Judge J S Wakefield, after Willie Lincoln's death (Willie died in 1862), quoted by Joseph Lewis in "Lincoln the Freethinker,"

When the Know-Nothings get control, it [the Declaration of Independence] will read: "All men are created equal except negroes, foreigners and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.
-- Abraham Lincoln, letter to Joshua F Speed, August 24, 1855, from Albert J Menendez and Edd Doerr, The Great Quotations on Religious Freedom

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.
-- Thomas Paine, (1737-1809), The Age of Reason, pt. 1, "The Author's Profession of Faith" (1794), quoted from The Columbia Dictionary of Quotations





It is my firm belief that there should be separation of church and state as we understand it in the United States -- that is, that both church and state should be free to operate, without interference from each other in their respective areas of jurisdiction. We live in a liberal, democratic society which embraces wide varieties of belief and disbelief. There is no doubt in my mind that the pluralism which has developed under our Constitution, providing as it does a framework within which diverse opinions can exist side by side and by their interaction enrich the whole, is the most ideal system yet devised by man. I cannot conceive of a set of circumstances which would lead me to a different conclusion.

-- John F Kennedy, letter to Glenn L Archer, February 23, 1959, from Albert J Menendez and Edd Doerr, The Great Quotations on Religious Freedom
 

aikido7

BANNED
Banned
I'm totally aware that the founders and many people who have held office in this country have believed in the Bible, quoted the bible, talked about it, etc. That doesn't mean that this country is or ever was a theocracy. Legally, its not. I have the same rights and freedoms under our laws as any Christian. Sorry if that bothers you, but hey....free country

BTW, some of the founders were Deists and Freemasons.
Careful scholars and historians also study more than people's public pronouncements. There is a wealth of information on the Founding Fathers' private remarks and correnspondence .

I guess all I am saying is that blanket statements in regard to "what the framers they really thought" need to be tempered by historical fact and real evidence.
 

Morpheus

New member
Matthew 5:21,22
21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
So, should all those who call for the execution of homosexuals be executed as murderers? How about those who trash others on a web forum?
 

aikido7

BANNED
Banned
“It can not be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists,
but by Christians, not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ.”
- Patrick Henry
Patrick Henry is regarded by most dispassionate historians as a committed Christian--neither a deist nor an atheist.

But he's really in the minority in the context of the Constitutional framers, politicos and patriots in early American history.
 

Pythia

New member
<<I'm really sick on hearing about the Freedom of Religion...it was OUR RELIGION of OUR HOLY SCRIPTURES and NO BODY ELSES! ALL OTHERS...Get OUT!!!>>

LoL, poor Jefferson, Paine, Madison and probably even Lincoln are probably spinning in their graves at that little hissy fit.
 

Morpheus

New member
I'm totally aware that the founders and many people who have held office in this country have believed in the Bible, quoted the bible, talked about it, etc. That doesn't mean that this country is or ever was a theocracy. Legally, its not. I have the same rights and freedoms under our laws as any Christian. Sorry if that bothers you, but hey....free country

BTW, some of the founders were Deists and Freemasons.
I would exchange the word "many" for "some" in the emphasized text. Thomas Jefferson, who has been so quoted of late by YahuShuan, was amongst them.
 

Pythia

New member
Ben Franklin was a member of The Hellfire Club, which met late nights in some basement to hold occultic rites and have drunken orgies.
 

YahuShuan

New member
I'm totally aware that the founders and many people who have held office in this country have believed in the Bible, quoted the bible, talked about it, etc. That doesn't mean that this country is or ever was a theocracy. Legally, its not. I have the same rights and freedoms under our laws as any Christian. Sorry if that bothers you, but hey....free country

BTW, some of the founders were Deists and Freemasons.

Not responding to you directly, but "my opine in general"...

I'm not blind to that either, but it is a free country...for now. But it will have it's judgments rendered for the freedoms it has abused according to the Creator. And that's just the way it really is. It don't bother me a bit. "If ya gotta go, ya gotta go...":)

One thing you would agree (maybe), "we" (followers of the Word) should be separated from you (not followers of the Word). Right.

Think of how great it would be for you folks (other than followers of Messiah) to be in a "world" where there were no people who cared about the "Bible" or "Holy Scriptures"?

Wouldn't that be such fun for you!

That's kind of what we want too, for our people. Right now, we invite others, but we can only leave the door open for so long, and the Master is coming to shut it. We don't know when, but He ain't doing any tarrying as we see it.

Then when "the Restrainer" is gone...What ever will YOU do? (we've been warning of this)

Cheese Whiz people...WHAT IF WE ARE CORRECT? How many of us have to die before you will hear us? All whose hearts are true are crying out to you who are hear and now. Many of us over millenia who are not leaders, but followers. And yet, we die to this day, at your hands, giving of our lives, for Him for You, as He did, "in His Fathers Name". Even if we don't know that "Name" (some of us), we still cry out as the Messiah taught, "Our Father who is in heaven". That is what links us together, the Father and the Master Yahu'Shua in and out and all about...UNIVERSALLY throughout the Creation. Just because some are a bit confused, don't miss the "link" that will bring US who follow together.

Do you seriously think He does not hear our cries? Look around, He IS FULFILLING ALL THAT HE SPOKE!

Rev 6:9-11; And when He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the beings of those having been slain for the Word of Elohim and for the witness which they held, and they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Master, set-apart and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”

And there was given to each one a white robe, and they were told that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brothers, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

(just ponder them...it's "coming right up!")

...Matityahu (Mathew) 18:5-11; “And whoever receives one little child like this in My Name receives Me. But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it is better for him that a millstone be hung around his neck, and that he be drowned in the depth of the sea."

“Woe to the world because of stumbling-blocks! For it is necessary that stumbling-blocks come, but woe to that man by whom the stumbling-block comes!"

“And if your hand or foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or crippled, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be thrown into the everlasting fire. And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it away from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be thrown into the fire of Gehenna."

“See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in the heavens their messengers always see the face of My Father who is in the heavens. For the Son of Aḏam has come to save what was lost."

(and I ain't aiming this at anyone..."if the shoe fits wear it".)

Joh 10:24-31 So the Yehuḏim surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in suspense? If You are the Messiah, say to us plainly.”

יהושע* answered them, “I have told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s Name, they bear witness concerning Me."

“But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you."

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them everlasting life, and they shall by no means ever perish, and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. And no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand."

“I and My Father are one.” Again the Yehuḏim picked up stones to stone Him.

Joh 17:20-26 “And I do not pray for these alone, but also for those believing in Me through their word, so that they all might be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You, so that they too might be one in Us, so that the world might believe that You have sent Me. And the esteem which You gave Me I have given them, so that they might be one as We are one, I in them, and You in Me, so that they might be perfected into one, so that the world knows that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me. Father, I desire that those whom You have given Me, might be with Me where I am, so that they see My esteem which You have given Me, because You loved Me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, indeed the world did not know You, but I knew You, and these knew that You sent Me. And I have made Your Name known to them, and shall make it known, so that the love with which You loved Me might be in them, and I in them.”

And one last contemplation for you...Psa 68:4 Sing to Elohim, sing praises to His Name. Raise up a highway for Him Who rides through the deserts, By His Name Yah, And exult before Him.
 

Pythia

New member

One thing you would agree (maybe), "we" (followers of the Word) should be separated from you (not followers of the Word). Right.


Not really. I don't mind sharing this country with people who have different beliefs and views than me. I wouldn't want to live in some isolated echo chamber full of people who only agree with me...that just sounds dull and unstimulating. I tend to thrive on diversity.

Think of how great it would be for you folks (other than followers of Messiah) to be in a "world" where there were no people who cared about the "Bible" or "Holy Scriptures"?

It wouldnt be all that great for me, since many of my family members and a few of my friends happen to be Christian. I would probably miss them.

Wouldn't that be such fun for you!

Living in an area full of Christians has never stopped me from having fun. They have no say or authority over how I choose to live my own life, just as I have no authority to infringe on their freedom to believe and live as THEY choose.
 

YahuShuan

New member
Ben Franklin was a member of The Hellfire Club, which met late nights in some basement to hold occultic rites and have drunken orgies.

It doesn't matter who, the righteous words were spoken by, what matters to me is that is what the PEOPLE who founded this country believed in. The founders had to reflect what the PEOPLE BELIEVED in order not to be shot or done away with as Treasonists to the PEOPLE who BELIEVE. It is up to Elohim to use who He chooses to accomplish HIS PURPOSE. "We the People" heard His Purpose, way back then, and THAT is what WE the People were in agreement WITH. Those "words" of founders, are mere acknowledgements of the wishes and beliefs of the PEOPLE who FOUNDED and the GOD of the Bible (Scriptures). You were outnumbered then, and you are outnumbered to this day.

Just like Scripture states that "although these things must be, WOE to the man by which they come."

"We the People" "who Believe" massively outnumber the ones who don't, and the ones who sold their souls for name, false glory, or whathaveyou, over millenia. Because all who don't believe fail to their own destructions. Keeps the scales tipped on the side of the Righteous in the Eyes of Yah. Which would be those who follow the Word which lives in us from Him and verifies all writings in our hearts. The more we listen and obey, the more we are given. We don't worship out of fear, but our of love for our Creator, and we know His Name and will be called by His Name, we have heard His Voice.

"Now, let me tell you something about you that YOU don't know"...YOU are HERE because of HIM. Like it or not, believe it or not, YOU have been "seeded"!
 

Pythia

New member
It doesn't matter who, the righteous words were spoken by,

"We the People" "who Believe" massively outnumber the ones who don't,

I'm aware of that...but that still doesn't change the fact that legally speaking this country was never founded as a tyranny of the majority when it comes to religious belief. It still now garuntees equal rights and protection under the law to all citizens regardless of race, gender OR religious beliefs.
 
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