Scripture. What is considered Scripture?

[RealityJerk]

A written work is profitable for spiritual instruction and guidance, provided it clearly conveys divine principles and ideals. If a written work achieves to inspire people to seek God, repent of their sins/chaos and do good/adopt patterns of thought and behavior that are conducive for life and communion with God, then it is a sacred writing or holy book. God reveals laws, principles, ideals and conveys those laws, principles and ideals, in a way that is intelligible to the human mind. The angels reveal the divine order or kingdom, directly to the human being via visions, dreams and sometimes by materializing in the physical realm, delivering a message face to face.

Those who have actually experienced the presence of YHWH and His angels, his hosts/armies: צבאות (seba'ot), having a genuine relationship with Him, aren't moved or affected by a written work containing errors or extraordinary stories, like that of Jonah and the giant fish. It's not about the narrative being historical, but rather about the divine principles and ideals being conveyed. The divine will being expressed through the story. Once you know YHWH, you know YHWH. A person, a living being, not a book or collection of writings. Some people just have a relationship with a book and the god of their own creation. A figment of their imagination. They rely heavily on supposed "infallible books", in order to compensate for their lack of faith and spirituality.

They need that warm and fuzzy infallible teddy bear book, or they'll fall apart spiritually and run to the nigh club. They'll become an atheist. A worldly, vulgar caveman, without their "infallible book". "The Book" provides comfort and a sense of control(..Something tangible they can hold in their hand and say "Yeah I got it", "Here it is", "I have it all figured out". " I have God all figured out, so you better agree with me or you're a heretic"...). They place God in a box, with a convenient little label that they can easily identify,define, and defend. That's their god. The god of their, doctrinal school of thought or sect. God for them really amounts to a set of doctrines they can defend and hit others over the head with, not a relationship with an actual person. These people are faithless. No faith. No courage. Their devotion to God is based on what God can do for them. Ingrates.

"GIVE ME ETERNAL LIFE, OR I WON'T SERVE OR WORSHIP YOU!"

(God doesn't owe us this life, much less an afterlife.)

Life will only hand you a sack full of questions. It's up to God, through His spirit to enlighten you, draw you to repentance and a genuine relationship with Him. Communion with the Holy Spirit. If you've been baptized in the Holy Spirit and have actually experienced that reality and furthermore, have witnessed the power of God in Jesus Name, healing the sick, casting out demons..etc..Then warm and fuzzy infallible teddy bear books aren't required (Obsolete). No one in this fallen world is infallible, except God. Even His angels aren't infallible. We are flawed, broken beings, hence our interpretation and understanding of anything that is supposedly infallible, will it self be fallible. Subject to error.

So, those who assert that the bible is the "inerrant, infallible word of God" are misguided. The only perfect word of God is Messiah. The Word is a person, not paper and ink. Jesus Christ, Yeshua Ha'Moshiach. That's the only infallible one, besides of course the Heavenly Father, which no one knows but The Son and those The Son, chooses to reveal Him to.

 

[Jacob]

A written work is profitable for spiritual instruction and guidance, provided it clearly conveys divine principles and ideals. If a written work achieves to inspire people to seek God, repent of their sins/chaos and do good/adopt patterns of thought and behavior that are conducive for life and communion with God, then it is a sacred writing or holy book. God reveals laws, principles, ideals and conveys those laws, principles and ideals, in a way that is intelligible to the human mind. The angels reveal the divine order or kingdom, directly to the human being via visions, dreams and sometimes by materializing in the physical realm, delivering a message face to face.

Those who have actually experienced the presence of YHWH and His angels, his hosts/armies: צבאות (seba'ot), having a genuine relationship with Him, aren't moved or affected by a written work containing errors or extraordinary stories, like that of Jonah and the giant fish. It's not about the narrative being historical, but rather about the divine principles and ideals being conveyed. The divine will being expressed through the story. Once you know YHWH, you know YHWH. A person, a living being, not a book or collection of writings. Some people just have a relationship with a book and the god of their own creation. A figment of their imagination. They rely heavily on supposed "infallible books", in order to compensate for their lack of faith and spirituality.

They need that warm and fuzzy infallible teddy bear book, or they'll fall apart spiritually and run to the nigh club. They'll become an atheist. A worldly, vulgar caveman, without their "infallible book". "The Book" provides comfort and a sense of control(..Something tangible they can hold in their hand and say "Yeah I got it", "Here it is", "I have it all figured out". " I have God all figured out, so you better agree with me or you're a heretic"...). They place God in a box, with a convenient little label that they can easily identify,define and defend. That's their god. The god of their own doctrinal school of thought. God and spirituality is a set of doctrines, not a relationship with an actual person. These people have no faith. They demand certainty, something literal and tangible,, like an infallible book. Their warm and fuzzy infallible teddy bear.

Life will only hand you a sack full of questions. It's up to God, through His spirit to enlighten you, draw you to repentance and a genuine relationship with Him. Communion with the Holy Spirit. If you've baptized in the Holy Spirit and experienced that reality and furthermore, have witnessed the power of God in Jesus Name, healing the sick, casting out demons..etc..Then warm and fuzzy infallible teddy bear books aren't required. No one in this fallen world is infallible, except God. Even His angels aren't infallible. We are flawed, broken beings, hence our interpretation and understanding of anything that is supposedly infallible, will it self be fallible. Subject to error.

So, those who assert that the bible is the "inerrant, infallible word of God" are misguided. The only perfect word of God is Messiah. The Word is a person, not paper and ink. Jesus Christ, Yeshua Ha'Moshiach. That's the only infallible one, besides of course the Heavenly Father, which no one knows but The Son and those The Son, chooses to reveal Him to.

John 14:23
New American Standard Bible
Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

It is important to know what Scripture is because it is inspired by God. See 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

2 Timothy 3:16-17New American Standard Bible (NASB)

16 All Scripture is [a]inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

Footnotes:

2 Timothy 3:16 Lit God-breathed
2 Timothy 3:16 Lit training which is in

See also 2 Peter 1:20-21
2 Peter 1:20-21 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

 

[RealityJerk]

John 14:23
New American Standard Bible
Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

It is important to know what Scripture is because it is inspired by God. See 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

2 Timothy 3:16-17New American Standard Bible (NASB)

16 All Scripture is [a]inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

Footnotes:

2 Timothy 3:16 Lit God-breathed
2 Timothy 3:16 Lit training which is in

See also 2 Peter 1:20-21
2 Peter 1:20-21 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

I agree with everything cited above, nonetheless, the spirit of God highlights what is and isn't His actual word. The bible is like the Garden of Eden, where you have the fruit that leads to eternal life, and the poison fruit that kills. You need divine wisdom, an actual relationship with YHWH or the bible will kill you. You'll just become an impotent, self-deluded, mindless, religious zealot. You need to become a wise money-changer, dividing the counterfeit currency from the genuine. That requires you be a born again, spirit filled believer.

 

[Jacob]

I agree with everything cited above, nonetheless, the spirit of God highlights what is and isn't His actual word. The bible is like the Garden of Eden, where you have the fruit that leads to eternal life, and the poison fruit that kills. You need divine wisdom, an actual relationship with YHWH or the bible will kill you. You'll just become an impotent, self-deluded, mindless, religious zealot. You need to become a wise money-changer, dividing the counterfeit currency from the genuine. That requires you be a born again, spirit filled believer.

I believe that I am born again and I accept the Bible as the Word of God. I am a Jew, a proselyte and a convert to Judaism and Israel. I accept the Torah, the TaNaK, and Matthew through Revelation. I accept Yeshua as the Messiah. The Torah is the Word of God. The TaNaK is the Word of God. It is important to be able to think about what you read.

 

[2003cobra]

John 14:23
New American Standard Bible
Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

It is important to know what Scripture is because it is inspired by God. See 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

2 Timothy 3:16-17New American Standard Bible (NASB)

16 All Scripture is [a]inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

Footnotes:

2 Timothy 3:16 Lit God-breathed
2 Timothy 3:16 Lit training which is in

See also 2 Peter 1:20-21
2 Peter 1:20-21 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

Two things to consider:
1) The Greek compound word godbreathed does not necessarily mean that God breathed the words. A compound word is not defined by its two roots. Are you aware that the early church fathers considered many non-canonical writings inspired.
2) if you will take a thorough look at the passage from 2 Peter, you will see that it is not about scripture in its entirety. It refers to the prophecies of scripture spoken by people when moved by the Holy Spirit.

It is important to know scripture, and it is also important to recognize what it really says and claims about itself.

The first chapter of Luke provides an excellent example:
Since many have undertaken to set down an orderly account of the events that have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as they were handed on to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word, 3 I too decided, after investigating everything carefully from the very first, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the truth concerning the things about which you have been instructed.

Luke says he decided to write the gospel. It was not a divine revelation—it was the result of his thorough investigation. That is why there are minor, insignificant differences in the details between Luke and the other gospels. If God had breathed every word into Luke’s pen, there would be no factual differences between the synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke).

 

[RealityJerk]

I believe that I am born again and I accept the Bible as the Word of God. I am a Jew, a proselyte and a convert to Judaism and Israel. I accept the Torah, the TaNaK, and Matthew through Revelation. I accept Yeshua as the Messiah. The Torah is the Word of God. The TaNaK is the Word of God. It is important to be able to think about what you read.

Believing something, doesn't make it true.

 

[Bright Raven]

Genesis through Revelation

 

[RealityJerk]

Saying "Genesis through Revelation", doesn't make Genesis through Revelation, the infallible word of almighty God, anymore than a Muslim saying "Quran chapter 1 to Quran chapter 114", makes the Quran God's word.

 

[Jacob]

Two things to consider:
1) The Greek compound word godbreathed does not necessarily mean that God breathed the words. A compound word is not defined by its two roots. Are you aware that the early church fathers considered many non-canonical writings inspired.
2) if you will take a thorough look at the passage from 2 Peter, you will see that it is not about scripture in its entirety. It refers to the prophecies of scripture spoken by people when moved by the Holy Spirit.

It is important to know scripture, and it is also important to recognize what it really says and claims about itself.

The first chapter of Luke provides an excellent example:
Since many have undertaken to set down an orderly account of the events that have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as they were handed on to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word, 3 I too decided, after investigating everything carefully from the very first, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the truth concerning the things about which you have been instructed.

Luke says he decided to write the gospel. It was not a divine revelation—it was the result of his thorough investigation. That is why there are minor, insignificant differences in the details between Luke and the other gospels. If God had breathed every word into Luke’s pen, there would be no factual differences between the synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke).

I disagree with you. But you have given me some things to think about. Have you considered what a prophecy of Scripture is?

 

[Jacob]

Believing something, doesn't make it true.

Correct.

 

[Jacob]

Genesis through Revelation

Is this with or without the designations Old Covenant and New Covenant or Old Testament and New Testament? I accept the TaNaK and Matthew through Revelation.

 

[2003cobra]

I disagree with you. But you have given me some things to think about. Have you considered what a prophecy of Scripture is?

Yes, it is a prophecy recorded in scripture.

And scripture simply means writing, unless the context implies sacred writings.

A sermon or a document can include the Word of God, and that doesn’t mean every word of the sermon or document is God speaking.

The “Word of God”is not a synonym for “Bible.” To text that, try taking every instance of the term “Word of God” from the Book of Acts and substituting the word Bible in its place. You will see the passages become nonsense.

The term Word of God in scripture has three meanings:
1) The message of God for mankind
2) A particular message from God (e.g., “the word of God came to...”)
3) The message of God incarnate, Jesus The Messiah, who was the embodiment of the Word of God — and those who saw Him saw the Father

To elevate every word of the Bible to “The Word of God” is not a teaching of scripture, and it tends to inappropriately deify a book which contains the Word of God but is not, in its entirety, the Word of God.

We should turn our eyes upon Jesus.

 

[2003cobra]

I meant to test that, not to text that. I suppose I will have the ability to edit my posts after a probationary period on the forum.

See if these verses from Acts make sense if you replace “Word of God” with “Bible.”

When they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God with boldness.

Acts 6:2 And the twelve called together the whole community of the disciples and said, “It is not right that we should neglect the word of God in order to wait on tables.

Acts 6:7 The word of God continued to spread; the number of the disciples increased greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests became obedient to the faith.

Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them.

Acts 11:1 [ Peter’s Report to the Church at Jerusalem ] Now the apostles and the believers who were in Judea heard that the Gentiles had also accepted the word of God.

Acts 12:24 But the word of God continued to advance and gain adherents.

Acts 13:5 When they arrived at Salamis, they proclaimed the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews. And they had John also to assist them.

Acts 13:7 He was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, an intelligent man, who summoned Barnabas and Saul and wanted to hear the word of God.

Acts 13:46 Then both Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken first to you. Since you reject it and judge yourselves to be unworthy of eternal life, we are now turning to the Gentiles.

Acts 17:13 But when the Jews of Thessalonica learned that the word of God had been proclaimed by Paul in Beroea as well, they came there too, to stir up and incite the crowds.

Acts 18:11 He stayed there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them

Recall that the Bible, as you have it, did not exist at that time.

 

[God's Truth]

I have noticed that people sometimes tend to pad the resume of the Bible, imagining it to be infallible and defining every word in it to be the Word of God. The Bible never made those claims for itself.

Give the scripture that says that.

We are to love and follow the Lord.

You wouldn't know anything about the Lord if it weren't for the scriptures.

Do you still maintain that Jesus quoted the OT in John 7?

According to you, what the scripture says Jesus said might be wrong.

I will find a quote that might help and post it.

I don't need your help.

 

[God's Truth]

Here is the quote:

“In short, the Scriptures, according to the early Fathers, are indeed inspired, but that is not the reason they are authoritative. They are authoritative, and hence canonical, because they are the extant literary deposit of the direct and indirect apostolic witness on which the later witness of the Church depends.”

Excerpt From
The Canon of the New Testament: Its Origin, Development, and Significance
Bruce M Metzger
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/the-canon-of-the-new-testament/id806791592?mt=11
This material may be protected by copyright.

I couldn't care any less what that person has to say. Unless he wants to debate here.

 

[God's Truth]

Saying "Genesis through Revelation", doesn't make Genesis through Revelation, the infallible word of almighty God, anymore than a Muslim saying "Quran chapter 1 to Quran chapter 114", makes the Quran God's word.

If you had God's Truth you would know the Holy Bible is true.

 

[God's Truth]

I meant to test that, not to text that. I suppose I will have the ability to edit my posts after a probationary period on the forum.

See if these verses from Acts make sense if you replace “Word of God” with “Bible.”

When they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God with boldness.

Acts 6:2 And the twelve called together the whole community of the disciples and said, “It is not right that we should neglect the word of God in order to wait on tables.

Acts 6:7 The word of God continued to spread; the number of the disciples increased greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests became obedient to the faith.

Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them.

Acts 11:1 [ Peter’s Report to the Church at Jerusalem ] Now the apostles and the believers who were in Judea heard that the Gentiles had also accepted the word of God.

Acts 12:24 But the word of God continued to advance and gain adherents.

Acts 13:5 When they arrived at Salamis, they proclaimed the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews. And they had John also to assist them.

Acts 13:7 He was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, an intelligent man, who summoned Barnabas and Saul and wanted to hear the word of God.

Acts 13:46 Then both Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken first to you. Since you reject it and judge yourselves to be unworthy of eternal life, we are now turning to the Gentiles.

Acts 17:13 But when the Jews of Thessalonica learned that the word of God had been proclaimed by Paul in Beroea as well, they came there too, to stir up and incite the crowds.

Acts 18:11 He stayed there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them

Recall that the Bible, as you have it, did not exist at that time.

The New Testament is the written Word of God, so why would your test be a reasonable test?

All the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed.

 

[2003cobra]

The New Testament is the written Word of God, so why would your test be a reasonable test?

All the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed.

I understand that you have been taught that the New Testament, in its entirety, is the Word of God. Are you aware that you cannot find that teaching presented in the Bible?

I love the scriptures and follow Jesus. I don’t believe we need to make up claims for the Bible that it does not make for itself, do you?

 

[2003cobra]

I couldn't care any less what that person has to say. Unless he wants to debate here.

To ignore the resources that God has made available to you could be something like saying “don’t confuse me with the facts, I know what I believe.”

Metzger was the leading expert on the canon and textual criticism in the past 40 years.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_M._Metzger

In the parable of the talents, Jesus taught that the Father requires us to make use of the resources He provides. Do you really not care about that?

 

[2003cobra]

Give the scripture that says that.


You wouldn't know anything about the Lord if it weren't for the scriptures.

According to you, what the scripture says Jesus said might be wrong.



I don't need your help.

I will just focu on your third sentence for now. There are a few places in scripture where Jesus was misquoted. This is clear from the synoptic gospels. In a few cases Matthew, Mark, and Luke disagree on what Jesus said. Have you not noticed that in your studies?