Salvation Through Mary?

Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
God's Truth said:
Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
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This is speaking about what will happen when the saints will be caught up to meet the Lord Jesus in the air. Those to whom He will appear and He has already bore thir sins. The "salvation" spoken of in the verse refers to the time when we will put on bodies like His glorious body, when this corruptible will put on incorruption (1 Cor.15:53).
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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Spitfire said:
Salvation through Mary = Jesus

Jesus came to us through Mary. Not through her own power, no, but still, she was Jesus' mother and it through her that Jesus was entirely human as well as entirely God, and thus fit to serve as our redeemer.

So, there is no reason why anyone who believes that Jesus is our salvation should have a problem with this idea.

Sorry y'all spun a whole thread of 200+ posts for nothing.
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Jesus did not come to be a Son to Mary, or a Husband to one woman, or a Father to a few children.

Mary is not the way to Jesus and the way to the Father.

That is Catholic reasoning and it goes against the Word of God.
 
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Jerry Shugart said:
This is speaking about what will happen when the saints will be caught up to meet the Lord Jesus in the air. Those to whom He will appear and He has already bore thir sins. The "salvation" spoken of in the verse refers to the time when we will put on bodies like His glorious body, when this corruptible will put on incorruption (1 Cor.15:53).
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That is right; however, you said when Jesus comes back it will be to save more. Tell me how Jesus saves more when he comes back since he is NOT coming to bear sin.

We are saved by Jesus bearing our sins.

Since he comes back NOT to bear sins, how are more people getting saved, as you say?
 
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Jerry Shugart said:
Who do you think that these words are referring to?: "...even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."
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That proves we do live in the spirit after the death of our bodies.

Please clarify your beliefs.

Do you believe our spirits live on after the deaths of our bodies or not?

I believe that they do.

However, you still have not shown that when Jesus comes back that more people will be saved.

Jesus is coming back as a thief in the night.

Thieves in the night are not coming to save more people.
 
keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
Salvation Through Mary?

jsanford108 said:
I never claimed angels were almighty. They are definitely in heaven with the Almighty.

How do you know Mary is asleep? Provide evidence that you know, with reason and rational, that she is asleep. Nowhere in Scripture does it say that she is asleep. Nowhere does it say that we all are "asleep" once we pass from this world.
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Where does it say she is not dead and in her grave?

Scripture please.


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keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
Who do you think that these words are referring to?: "...even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."
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1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I think it speaks of the dead rising first and being selected to go with Christ.


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keypurr said:
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I think it speaks of the dead rising first and being selected to go with Christ.


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1 Thessalonians 4:14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.


Did you read that?

When Jesus comes again, he will come from heaven, he will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in him. That means they are with him in spirit, in heaven.
 
J

jsanford108

New member
keypurr said:
Where does it say she is not dead and in her grave?

Scripture please.


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Scripture doesn't say she isn't. But you affirm that she is. I am saying that Scrupture points to us being able to enter heaven after death. Not "sleeping" for God knows how long, then eventually getting to heaven. Besides, I asked you first. You cannot even provide proof that we "sleep" until one day we wake up in heaven.
 
J

jsanford108

New member
God's Truth said:
1 Thessalonians 4:14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.


Did you read that?

When Jesus comes again, he will come from heaven, he will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in him. That means they are with him in spirit, in heaven.
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Excellent point. I agree with this one wholly.
 
keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
God's Truth said:
1 Thessalonians 4:14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.


Did you read that?

When Jesus comes again, he will come from heaven, he will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in him. That means they are with him in spirit, in heaven.
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No, I do not think that GT.

I know a lot feel that way because it gives them comfort.


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C

clefty

New member
jsanford108 said:
I never claimed angels were almighty. They are definitely in heaven with the Almighty.

How do you know Mary is asleep? Provide evidence that you know, with reason and rational, that she is asleep. Nowhere in Scripture does it say that she is asleep. Nowhere does it say that we all are "asleep" once we pass from this world.
Click to expand...

Already covered this in posts 166 168 and 176...

I am not so inclined to make Him a liar...

No evidence in scripture that He did...nor in the traditions that the apostles passed on...
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
God's Truth said:
Since he comes back NOT to bear sins, how are more people getting saved, as you say?
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The verse from Hebrews is speaking about when the believers will be caught up to meet Him in the air.

That is different from the time when He will return to the earth.

Do you not believe that during the earthly Kingdom of Christ that there will be people who will be saved from their sins?
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
keypurr said:
What saints will be in heaven before he comes to raise the saints on earth?
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The ones described here:

"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him" (1 Thess:13-14).​

According to your ideas those who are asleep are first raised from their graves on the earth and then go to heaven. And then they will be with Him when He descends from heaven to meet the believers in the air!

That is not what is said at 1 Thessalonains 4:13-17. There it says that the Lord will bring bring those who are already physically dead with Him from heaven (v.14). Then after that He will descend from heaven and the dead shall be resurrected first (v.16) and then the saints who are alive will meet Him in the air.

Besides that, here we can see that those who have been killed cry with a loud voice:

"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? " (Rev.6:9-10).​
 
keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
The ones described here:

"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him" (1 Thess:13-14).​

According to your ideas those who are asleep are first raised from their graves on the earth and then go to heaven. And then they will be with Him when He descends from heaven to meet the believers in the air!

That is not what is said at 1 Thessalonains 4:13-17.
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No, you misunderstand me. The dead in Christ will be raised first then those that are alive. No saints are coming with Christ to earth at the first raising.
I hope I said it clearer this time.


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Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
keypurr said:
No, you misunderstand me. The dead in Christ will be raised first then those that are alive. No saints are coming with Christ to earth at the first raising.
I hope I said it clearer this time.
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In what way do you say that the dead in Christ are "raised first"?

In those verses it says that the Lord will bring bring those who are already physically dead with Him from heaven (v.14). Then after that He will descend from heaven and the dead shall be resurrected first (v.16) and then the saints who are alive will meet Him in the air.

Besides that, here we can see that those who have been killed cry with a loud voice:

"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? " (Rev.6:9-10).​
 
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