ROMANS 1 ONLY HAS TO DO WITH PEOPLE WHO HATE GOD

A-Scholten

New member
STATEMENT: Romans 1 describes people who were the worst of the worst. Romans 1:30-31 says they were ". . . haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless." This is not the case for all people. Some people truly love the Lord and are diligent in serving Him. And they are drawn to a member of the same sex. Since they do not hate God, and are not insolent, haughty, boastful etc., Romans 1 cannot include their situation. It is a misapplication of Scripture to say that Romans 1 prohibits them from marrying a member of the same-sex.



RESPONSE: Romans 1 describes one situation, it does not describe the only way that people come to be attracted to members of the same sex. I Corinthians 10:13 tells us that many people experience each kind of temptation: "No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability . . ."

People end up being attracted to any given temptation for a variety of reasons. Romans 1:26-27 is very straightforward in identifying women having sex with women and men with men as dishonorable passions, that is sinful. So, whether one is truly a hater of God and engages in that activity, or if one loves God and strives to serve Him and engages in that activity, in both situations it is sinful.


Do you agree with the Statement? The Response? Share your thoughts!
 

Jacob

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Does the question have to with those who sin, choose to sin, or have sinned, and whether or not they are considered haters of God? My understanding is that homosexuality is sin.
 

A-Scholten

New member
Some claim that Romans 1 paints a picture of people who are really wicked. People who love God and are drawn to members of the same sex say theirs is a different situation. But it is my opinion verses 26 and 27 clearly indicate same-sex acts are always dishonorable, therefore, always sin.

There is more information at http://www.dialogos-studies.com/same-sex.html.
 

A-Scholten

New member
Are there any other pro or con comments to this? They would be very much appreciated. Dr. Brownson's book has hit very high in the best sellers list; it is important for Christians to have very clear, well thought out responses to these scenarios that he depicts.

Thanks!
 

Jacob

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Banned
Are there any other pro or con comments to this? They would be very much appreciated. Dr. Brownson's book has hit very high in the best sellers list; it is important for Christians to have very clear, well thought out responses to these scenarios that he depicts.

Thanks!
I do not have anything else to say.
 

Squeaky

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HOMOSEXUAL IS A SIN

1 Cor 5:9-13
9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people.
10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner-- not even to eat with such a person.
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?
13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."
James 1:13-16
13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.
Gal 5:17
17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
Gal 5:19
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
Gal 5:24
24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
1 Pet 2:19
19 For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully.
1 Pet 2:21-22
21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
22 "Who committed no sin, nor was deceit found in His mouth";
James 4:5
5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, "The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously"?
James 4:7-8
7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
1 Cor 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Tim 1:8-10
8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully,
9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,
Luke 17:28-30
28 "Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built;
29 "but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 "Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
Titus 1:10-11
10 For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,
11 whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain.
2 Pet 2:3
3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.
Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)
xxxxThis is a revelation I received from the Holy Spirit. Like it or not this is what the bible says. You can look up every verse. Whether your a homosexual or not if you approve of it you could condemn yourself. Homosexuality is a sin.


Rom 14:22
22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
James 2:26
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
2 Pet 3:9-13
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
Rom 1:22-32
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man-- and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
(NKJ)


2 Pet 2:12-22
12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption,
13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you,
14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, beguiling unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children.
15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet.
17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire."
(NKJ)
 

A-Scholten

New member
It is important for us as Christians to be well-versed in Scripture, Squeaky. That is the rock-solid foundation of our lives in Christ.

I think it is also important for us to know very thoroughly each of the passages of Scripture. From what I've read people do ask questions like the one posed initially in this post. And I have no doubt that Christians sometimes also wrestle with these kinds of tough questions. The devil will stop at nothing to deceive us. I think that makes it important for us to be able to speak to the specifics of questions like this. We need to be ready to give an explanation of the hope that is within us in these details.
 

marhig

Well-known member
Are there any other pro or con comments to this? They would be very much appreciated. Dr. Brownson's book has hit very high in the best sellers list; it is important for Christians to have very clear, well thought out responses to these scenarios that he depicts.

Thanks!
Romans 1 is talking about people who have known God and turn back to their sinful ways, many seem to think that they are once saved always saved, and that even if they carry on and wilfully sin, then they will still be saved and are going to heaven regardless, and that nothing can separate them from God, yes there is something that can separate us from God, sin can. The teaching of "even if you wilfully sin you will still be saved", and "your once saved always saved regardless of what you do" comes from satan, only he would teach that even if we wilfully sin we will live, and it's with this that he deceived Eve.

If we carry on wilfully sinning after knowing God, we are in danger of being cut off, that is quite clear in the scriptures, but many don't seem to believe this, they say that they can't do anything, and that Jesus has done it all for them, or that Jesus has done all the obeying for them and they are saved regardless of what they do. And they also say that it's impossible to turn from sin. But not with Christ it isn't, once we are born of God, we should be starting to turn from sin, and the Holy Spirit within our heart can help us to do so, by showing us our sin and guiding us, and once we turn away he will help us to overcome. But that won't happen until we put our hand to it, obey God, and turn away from sinning and listen to the Spirit when he shows us, through our conscience, and through others that we are wrong.

Homosexually is wrong before God, as clearly seen in the Bible, but those who carry on wilfully sinning once they know God, will be judged more than those who sin and don't know or have never heard God.

Once we know the truth, and know the living God, then we are to turn from whichever sins have a hold on our hearts, Jesus said we are to deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow him, and this is possible, through faith, through Christ, by the grace of God. God can save us from this world of sin, and help us through Christ to overcome. And we have hope of eternal salvation, if we endure to the end.

Those who are willing to lose their lives for Christ sake shall save it. We must be willing to lay down our life to do the will of God and bring the love of God and the life of Christ in our hearts to others. We can't bring Christ to others if we carry on wilfully sinning, because others can't see Christ if we are living by the will of our flesh. And Christ can't do his work through us if we put our life before him.

But with God, all things are possible.
 

Squeaky

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Banned
It is important for us as Christians to be well-versed in Scripture, Squeaky. That is the rock-solid foundation of our lives in Christ.

I think it is also important for us to know very thoroughly each of the passages of Scripture. From what I've read people do ask questions like the one posed initially in this post. And I have no doubt that Christians sometimes also wrestle with these kinds of tough questions. The devil will stop at nothing to deceive us. I think that makes it important for us to be able to speak to the specifics of questions like this. We need to be ready to give an explanation of the hope that is within us in these details.

I said
The milk understanding is three years long. At a minimum. The meat understanding is eleven years long at a minimum. Then one comes to the revelations of Jesus Christ. Which is the deepest understanding that we can have. People in the milk use websters dictionary or funk and wagnal. People in the meat understanding use Nelsons dictionary or Strongs. But people who receive the revelations of Jesus Christ go much deeper in understanding. I have received over 3000 of the revelations of Jesus Christ. And that is what I'm sharing with you. People in the meat can dispute people in the milk. People in the revelations of Jesus Christ can dispute people in the meat. But nobody can dispute the revelations of Jesus Christ.
 

A-Scholten

New member
From what I have read there is a growing number of people and churches who, if not believing the position given in the STATEMENT above, are at least wrestling with it. They are wondering more and more if it might be possible to be within God's will and be part of a loving, monogamous same-sex relationship.

Assuming the devil might be conniving to deceive a fellow Christian with the above twisting of Scripture, can anyone present proper biblical thinking from focusing only on Romans 1, that clearly shows the above position is not biblical?
 

Squeaky

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Marriage is defined in verse 2. If your going to have sex in marriage it must be between one man and one woman. Anything outside of that is fornication.

[1Co 7:1-2
1 Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me: [It is] good for a man not to touch a woman.
2 Nevertheles, because of sexual immorality, let each man(singular) have his own wife(singular),and let each woman(singular) have her own husband.(singular)
 
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