Proof that dinosaurs lived alongside modern mammals

[6days]

What about the fact that a ship that big was impossible to build at the time with their tech?

You keep trying to prove God wrong. How do you know what technology existed pre-flood? God's Word tells us that the world that then existed was destroyed. Perhaps I'm wrong but I thought you said you were a Christian? If so, why do you try so hard to prove scrioture, and Jesus to be wrong?

See any ship building reference. Such as Stuu's wiki link. Where did Noah get his iron? And how did he extract it from ore? You simply cannot build anything that big without a strong metal. The structure would not hold.

Again... you start with a false belief system, and attempt to outsmart God.


Noah may, or may not have used iron. Iron was used just a few generations After the flood so it is quite likely that the technology existed before the flood. In any case, the South Korean ship navel research center (linked earlier) determined a wooden ship the dimensions of the Ark would be seaworthy.

THAT is what sold me on the ark's non-existence. THEN they found an Iraqi tablet from about 4000-5000 years ago telling the same story, with a guy named Noah even, except it's the real version. It tells of Noah using a big round river craft (consistent with the archaeological finds of people of the time and area) to put his family and animals on to save them while the countryside around was destroyed by a flood. There aren't any holes in that account. It's completely reasonable. And OLDER than the Bible

Haaa.... you need do just a teensy weensy bit of research before you say ridiculous things. ( You have a habit of this). I will let you discover the holes in your statement rather than embarrass you again. You say you were sold on this... was it perhaps Finkel that sold you an absurd bill of goods?

The Biblical authors simply exaggerated a bit TO MAKE A POINT: that God will not destroy the creation that he loves

Uh.... no. That is opposite of what Scripture tells us, and it would make the Gospel meaningless.

Gen. 6:7 I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish.


Jesus: "For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.” (Matthew 24:37-39)







, AND to demonstrate his power. The parabolic story demonstrates that God is both almighty and ultimately merciful

 

[Greg Jennings]

I will address your above post when you finally quit dodging this one:

Did you forget about this? You claimed you'd be honest and answer my question if I did the same for you, which I did. It's time to put up

Very good... Yes, of course.
We agree!
What is a vegetarian predator?

Why do you ask? You don't believe the Bible so does it matter? In any case...
Genesis 1:30 "And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground-everything that has the breath of life in it-I give every green plant for food."

Much later.. the world had been corrupted, and God gave new directions...
Genesis 9:3 Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything

Please don't be coy. I think you well know what I mean by vegetarian predator: an animal with carnivorous dentition today that either A) had plant-eating teeth in the beginning or B) was poorly designed by God to eat food.
And since God creates perfectly, you will agree that sharks and other modern carnivores would've had teeth designed for eating plants in the beginning, yes?



On your verse: it says God gave plants for all the animals to eat. It doesn't say that all animals ate plants.
It's like this: every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square

And to go macro here: all animals do kind of survive on vegetation. Prey animals transfer their energy intake from plant consumption to the predator that consumes them.

In both a literal and an allegorical sense, that verse certainly can be interpreted far differently than you have chosen to interpret it. Are there perhaps other verses that can support your ideology in a clear fashion?

 

[6days]

Please don't be coy. I think you well know what I mean by vegetarian predator: an animal with carnivorous dentition today that either A) had plant-eating teeth in the beginning or B) was poorly designed by God to eat food.

We already agreed... "God makes creatures perfect". So B) is not an option... and A) is false dilemma.


Greg... you make many assumptions in your attempts to out smart God's Word. *Why can't a lion have 'carnivorous dentition', but be vegetarian.

*Why do you think a 'bug' can evolve into a biologist, yet you don't think mutations and selection can change teeth?

* Why do you think diet can be determined by teeth only? (For example fruit bats have carnivorous looking teeth, yet they eat fruit.)

* Why don't you think God might have created carnivorous dentition in some animals, knowing they would be needed in a fallen world?

On your verse: it says God gave plants for all the animals to eat. It doesn't say that all animals ate plants.

As I suggested, there isn't much sense in arguing theology, or Scripture with someone who wants to try prove it false. The verse along with other supporting Scripture is clear. Genesis 1:30 "And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground-everything that has the breath of life in it-I give every green plant for food."


You can also look at scripture where paradise is described as the wolf and lamb laying together, other scripture re nature of God and death, and the instructions God later gave about diet saying I gave you vegetarian diet before, but now I give everything.

 

[Greg Jennings]

We already agreed... "God makes creatures perfect". So B) is not an option... and A) is false dilemma.


Greg... you make many assumptions in your attempts to out smart God's Word. *Why can't a lion have 'carnivorous dentition', but be vegetarian.

*Why do you think a 'bug' can evolve into a biologist, yet you don't think mutations and selection can change teeth?

* Why do you think diet can be determined by teeth only? (For example fruit bats have carnivorous looking teeth, yet they eat fruit.)

* Why don't you think God might have created carnivorous dentition in some animals, knowing they would be needed in a fallen world?

As I suggested, there isn't much sense in arguing theology, or Scripture with someone who wants to try prove it false. The verse along with other supporting Scripture is clear. Genesis 1:30 "And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground-everything that has the breath of life in it-I give every green plant for food."


You can also look at scripture where paradise is described as the wolf and lamb laying together, other scripture re nature of God and death, and the instructions God later gave about diet saying I gave you vegetarian diet before, but now I give everything.

Umm what?

You just said that God creates perfectly. And in your fantasy land of plant-eating alligators and such, that means herbivorous dentition. You have to grind plant material hard in order for it to be digested. You also need certain bacteria in your gut that pure carnivores do not have. That's biology 101, mate. I know you never took that class, but honestly I thought you could figure that out

So what you are telling me is that God designed his creatures poorly, contradicting your statement that he creates perfectly. His poorly equipped herbivorous sharp-toothed creatures would've struggled mightily to even grab and chew their plant diet, never mind that they'd die from not being able to break it down in their stomach.

Or do you have a scientific solution to this? I'm thinking you'll just give me another ridiculous and contradictory reply. You arguing that sharp teeth were designed for plants is absurd. And if God planned on man falling, as you also suggested, then why would he intentionally screw over all of his creation by putting Adam in a situation he knew that he couldn't handle? That's a trickster god, and I don't know about you, but I don't worship Loki. I worship God

Your story has more holes than Swiss cheese. Dave and PJ make about as much sense in that flat earth thread as you do here

 

[6days]

You just said that God creates perfectly.

Yes...of course!

And in your fantasy land of plant-eating alligators and such, that means herbivorous dentition.You have to grind plant material hard in order for it to be digested.

Greg... you start off with a faulty conclusion and stick with it no matter how poor your logic is. You didn't answer the following points / questions.

*We don't know what dentition was in original creation. That is true no matter how hard you try prove you are smarter than God, and His Word.


*Why can't a cat have 'carnivorous dentition', but be vegetarian.

*Why do you think a 'bug' can evolve into a biologist, yet you don't think mutations and selection can change teeth?

* Why do you think diet can be determined by teeth only? (For example fruit bats have carnivorous looking teeth, yet they eat fruit.)

* Why don't you think God might have created carnivorous dentition in some animals, knowing they would be needed in a fallen world?

You also need certain bacteria in your gut that pure carnivores do not have. That's biology 101, mate. I know you never took that class, but honestly I thought you could figure that out

Before you get to Biology 101 Greg, you need take some grade school science learning simple concepts like adaptation and mutations.

So what you are telling me is that God designed his creatures poorly

See above what I said.

I worship God

Everybody has a god. What you seem to worship Greg is yourself. You keep trying to prove the God of the Bible can't speak clearly.

 

[Jonahdog]

* Why don't you think God might have created carnivorous dentition in some animals, knowing they would be needed in a fallen world?

That actually raises an interesting theological question. All all-knowing deity, a perfect being, able to create all we see within a week, creates a perfect world for his highest creation----but he hedges his bets by making lions (and other carnivores) with meat eating teeth.
Either your god really did not understand what would happen in the immediate future of his creation or he made everything knowing his favorite, bestest creature would snub him and make him angry.

Any good theological response to that quandry?

 

[Jonahdog]

You keep trying to prove the God of the Bible can't speak clearly.

Well, if the God of the Bible could speak clearly, why so much theological confusion? Why so many Christian denominations?

 

[Stuu]

*We don't know what dentition was in original creation.

You can't even tell us what 'original creation' means.

Meantime, in real paleontology...

Stuart

 

[genuineoriginal]

Well, if the God of the Bible could speak clearly, why so much theological confusion? Why so many Christian denominations?

The multitude of Christian denominations comes from man having free will to choose what they will believe and what they won't believe.

 

[6days]

The multitude of Christian denominations comes from man having free will to choose what they will believe and what they won't believe.

Also, just the diversity of cultures, personalities, music tastes etc. Many, many denominations trust in Christ as Savior and their core doctrine is the same.

 

[Jonahdog]

The multitude of Christian denominations comes from man having free will to choose what they will believe and what they won't believe.

Nope, it just means your deity is unable to communicate clearly so that his creation understands.

 

[Jonahdog]

Also, just the diversity of cultures, personalities, music tastes etc. Many, many denominations trust in Christ as Savior and their core doctrine is the same.

Weasel answer. but clearly your deity is unable to communicate clearly.

 

[Greg Jennings]

Everybody has a god. What you seem to worship Greg is yourself. You keep trying to prove the God of the Bible can't speak clearly.

Thanks for ignoring my questions again. Good work. You're the best dodgeball player I've ever come across.


So were the sharks originally with sharp teeth or no?


And no, he doesn't speak clearly all the time. Or do you honestly think the mustard seed is the smallest in the world? Given your lack of scientific expertise, you might.

He speaks relatively, and often metaphorically

 

[6days]

So were the sharks originally with sharp teeth or no?

No matter how often you ask Greg, the answer will be we don't know what the exact features were of each created kind.

And no, he doesn't speak clearly all the time. Or do you honestly think the mustard seed is the smallest in the world? Given your lack of scientific expertise, you might.

I think the problem you have is your lack of Bible knowledge coupled with your very limited scientific knowledge. (Remember claiming that mutations created an extra fin on sharks in the bikini atolls?). Re the mustard seed.... The Bible does not say it is the smallest seed in the world (Jesus was not teaching Botany, and it would not have made sense to name a seed nobody had ever heard of)... The mustard seed was likely the smallest seed known in Israel 2,000 years ago. Also, it helps if you understand the difference between parables and history when reading God's Word.

 

[Greg Jennings]

No matter how often you ask Greg, the answer will be we don't know what the exact features were of each created kind.
I think the problem you have is your lack of Bible knowledge coupled with your very limited scientific knowledge. (Remember claiming that mutations created an extra fin on sharks in the bikini atolls?). Re the mustard seed.... The Bible does not say it is the smallest seed in the world... although it likely was the smallest seed known in Israel 2,000 years ago. Also, it helps if you understand the difference between parables and history when reading God's Word.

And look who is dodging and trying to (as you LOVE to say) move the goalposts? Coward

So you have no explanation for how carnivores, like sharks, ate plants, not you want it accepted as fact? That's why you are a joke. And your ilk

Jesus said "the mustard seed is the smallest of all seeds you plant in the ground (where ALL seeds are planted)." If the Bible is to taken literally, as you seem to think it must be, then Jesus is a liar.

"“Again [Jesus] said, “What shall we say the kingdom of God is like, or what parable shall we use
to describe it? It is like a mustard seed, which is the smallest seed you plant in the ground. Yet when
planted, it grows and becomes the largest of all garden plants, with such big branches that the birds
of the air can perch in its shade.”
(Mark 4:30-32)"

Not to mention it's not the largest garden plant. But the key here is that it's a relative explanation, like many of Jesus's explanations. That's why you're a fool to take things so literally


So will you go to your closest university and ask the professors there your questions? You dodged that question again. You're pathetic sometimes

 

[6days]

So you have no explanation for how carnivores, like sharks, ate plants, not you want it accepted as fact?

Again Greg... We don't know exactly which features each creature on the original created kind had. Also, we don't kmow, but sharks do not seem to be what God described as Nepesh. We DO know though that death entered the world through one mans sin.

That's why you are a joke. And your ilk

Ah..... Flattery will get you no where, my friend.

Jesus said "the mustard seed is the smallest of all seeds you plant in the ground (where ALL seeds are planted)." If the Bible is to taken literally, as you seem to think it must be, then Jesus is a liar.

But Greg... Parables are not to be taken literally..... I never suggested everything in the Bible is literal. But history books of course DO describe literal true events... The cross and resurrection are dependent on the literal history in Genesis.

 

[Greg Jennings]

Again Greg... We don't know exactly which features each creature on the original created kind had. Also, we don't kmow, but sharks do not seem to be what God described as Nepesh.

Good to know that you don't hold yourself to any sort of standard of proof, while demanding it of the other side. Real scientific. And not hypocritical at all.

But you stated earlier that God creates perfectly. If that is true, then pre-sin sharks would be designed to eat plants. Yet, you'll never find any tooth in the ocean belonging to a shark, fossil or otherwise, that is anything but sharp and designed to cut and tear flesh. So according to you, God is a terrible designer

And how did God decide WHICH animals would start eating meat post-sin? You can't even give me a hypothesis for any of these, yet you want scientists to take it as fact? Do you not see the absurdity of that? Seriously??

We DO know though that death entered the world through one mans sin.

No. We do not. That is a metaphorical story in a book full of scientifically proven inaccuracies. And it's something that would be disputed by thousands of certified pastors/clergymen who are infinitely more qualified than you to comment on the Bible. So no, you can't say you KNOW something to be fact, when that something is hotly disputed even among those of our religion. Millions of Christians globally would take issue with that

Exactly why are you more qualified than they in this area?

But Greg... Parables are not to be taken literally.....

Yet you do take Genesis, packed full of metaphorical language, literally. Go figure.

I never suggested everything in the Bible is literal. But history books of course DO describe literal true events... The cross and resurrection are dependent on the literal history in Genesis.

And Genesis is not one of those historical events. Archaeology, geology, astronomy, and paleontology have all independently proven it wrong, after they all independently started with the conclusion you currently have: that Earth is 6000-10,000 years old. Why is that?

Why do you refuse to go talk to experts at your local university? Why will you not even answer that request? If you're so knowledgeable, what are you so afraid of?