ECT Please explain why illogic is essential to your Gospel interpretation.

[Sancocho]

This forum is filled with illogical claims and stances that undermine themselves. For example, claiming all denominations have fallen away either from the time of Constantinople or up until recent history but somehow the bibles written by these denominations have been faithful to the Word and have not been corrupted.

"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit."

which clearly establishes no bibles can be used from a "fallen" denomination without accepting all their theology UP UNTIL THE POINT THEY FELL because by inference they would have been considered a "good tree" up until that point.

 

[Danoh]

This forum is filled with illogical claims and stances that undermine themselves. For example, claiming all denominations have fallen away either from the time of Constantinople up until recent history but somehow the bibles written by these denominations have been faithful to the Word and not be corrupted, after all

"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit."

which clearly establishes no bibles can be used from a "fallen" denomination without accepting all their theology UP UNTIL THE POINT THEY FELL because by inference they would have been considered a "good tree" up until that point.

Over the coarse of 400 hundred years alone, let alone, longer, a stopped clock right twice a day, has been right just under 300,000 times - more than enough to produce a Bible faithful to the Word, in between all that "stopped time" error.

Check you math, before you post.

 

[Desert Reign]

This forum is filled with illogical claims and stances that undermine themselves.

Very true.

For example, claiming all denominations have fallen away either from the time of Constantinople

This sentence doesn't make sense because of the use of the word 'either' without 'or'.

Also, Constantinople was a city. Now called Istanbul and also formerly Byzantium. Such a city still exists so it makes no sense to say 'from the time of Constantinople', unless you perhaps mean 'from the founding of the city of Constantinople', which would be absurd.

I would guess though that you mean 'from the time of Constantine'. In which case the most likely conclusions to be drawn from your opening sentence is that you were either drunk when writing it or you have an IQ less than 70.

However, let's try to forgive the obvious errors and see if it does make sense: I don't myself know of anyone who claims that denominations have fallen away from the time of Constantine. Other than the Roman Catholics who think everyone has apart from themselves.

And yet, this is what you appear to be claiming to be 'illogical and self-undermining' - of the Catholic Church!!!

up until recent history but somehow the bibles written by these denominations have been faithful to the Word and not be corrupted, after all

All Christians and even most Christian sects use the Bible. This Bible was the same one written in the first and possibly second centuries AD. So once again, you seem to be going out of your way to prove you were drunk.

which clearly establishes no bibles can be used from a "fallen" denomination without accepting all their theology UP UNTIL THE POINT THEY FELL because by inference they would have been considered a "good tree" up until that point.

I see - at last that makes some sense. And the sense is:

If I read some given book, let's say The Lord of the Rings, in 2015, and I then go and commit murder and embezzlement and other crimes in 2017, this means that the book I read in 2015 must be tainted and should not be read anymore by anyone.

That's certainly a very profound point and very well worth making a new thread of. Well done, I think we all know now where you are coming from.

 

[Shubee]

This forum is filled with illogical claims and stances that undermine themselves. For example, claiming all denominations have fallen away either from the time of Constantinople up until recent history but somehow the bibles written by these denominations have been faithful to the Word.

That's a poor argument. All Christians believe that Judaism became an apostate faith when it rejected Jesus Christ but it doesn't follow that Judaism then engaged in a process to corrupt the Old Testament Scriptures. Likewise, it's perfectly reasonable to believe in a great apostasy within Christendom since Constantine without charging Churchianity with the crime of significantly corrupting the Old and New Testaments.

 

[Sancocho]

Over the coarse of 400 hundred years alone, let alone, longer, a stopped clock right twice a day, has been right just under 300,000 times - more than enough to produce a Bible faithful to the Word, in between all that "stopped time" error.

Check you math, before you post.

There is no math in my post.

I also never stated the Bible had errors.

 

[Sancocho]

Very true.
This sentence doesn't make sense because of the use of the word 'either' without 'or'.

Thank you. The sentence should have read "from the time of Constantinople OR up until recent history"

Also, Constantinople was a city. Now called Istanbul and also formerly Byzantium. Such a city still exists so it makes no sense to say 'from the time of Constantinople', unless you perhaps mean 'from the founding of the city of Constantinople', which would be absurd.

I would guess though that you mean 'from the time of Constantine'. In which case the most likely conclusions to be drawn from your opening sentence is that you were either drunk when writing it or you have an IQ less than 70.

The phrase "from the time of Constantinople" is found on many references, including scholarly. Also, the term "from the time of" + [name/place] has over 30,000,000 hits on Google.

https://www.google.com/search?q="fr...rom+the+time+of"+grammar&safe=active&start=10

However, let's try to forgive the obvious errors and see if it does make sense: I don't myself know of anyone who claims that denominations have fallen away from the time of Constantine. Other than the Roman Catholics who think everyone has apart from themselves.

You need to educate yourself. There are multiple threads on this forum that discuss this topic. Search Google - site:http://www.theologyonline.com constantinople

And yet, this is what you appear to be claiming to be 'illogical and self-undermining' - of the Catholic Church!!!

All Christians and even most Christian sects use the Bible. This Bible was the same one written in the first and possibly second centuries AD. So once again, you seem to be going out of your way to prove you were drunk.

Look buddy you are getting confused.

Jesus says bad fruit can only come from bad trees so if the premise is the Catholic Church departed from the Body of Christ AT THE TIME OF CONSTANTINOPLE then by logical inference the Catholic Bible must be "bad fruit" to. Therefore, any derivative of said bible is also bad. This isn't my logic, but Jesus Christ's.

 

[Sancocho]

That's a poor argument. All Christians believe that Judaism became an apostate faith when it rejected Jesus Christ but it doesn't follow that Judaism then engaged in a process to corrupt the Old Testament Scriptures. Likewise, it's perfectly reasonable to believe in a great apostasy within Christendom since Constantine without charging Churchianity with the crime of significantly corrupting the Old and New Testaments.

You are confused. I never stated that anyone stated the Catholic Church was corrupting Scripture.

What I stated is that if the Catholic Church was deemed corrupted at any given point then from that point on anything they would have created would have been corrupted as well per Jesus Christ's own Words.

 

[Shubee]

What I stated is that if the Catholic Church was deemed corrupted at any given point then from that point on anything they would have created would have been corrupted as well per Jesus Christ's own Words.

If that's the only point that you've made in your opening post, then we agree. I dare to say more however. Christianity became greatly corrupted during the time of Constantine. Would you like to see some evidence of that?

 

[Sancocho]

If that's the only point that you've made in your opening post, then we agree. I dare to say more however. Christianity became greatly corrupted during the time of Constantine. Would you like to see some evidence of that?

What year would you say the RCC departed from the Body of Christ?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

What year would you say the RCC departed from the Body of Christ?

The RCC was formed by apostates so they were never in the body of Christ.

LA

 

[Shubee]

What year would you say the RCC departed from the Body of Christ?

My understanding of the Body of Christ means all those who are saved. I consider it highly probable that the RCC always had some genuine believers in Christ, regardless of the overt apostasy of the church leadership.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

My understanding of the Body of Christ means all those who are saved. I consider it highly probable that the RCC always had some genuine believers in Christ, regardless of the overt apostasy of the church leadership.

It is impossible for Christ to presence Himself by the Spirit among an apostate group of people meeting under a name/names which blasphemes God our Father.

Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

1Sa 8:6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.
1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
1Sa 8:8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.
1Sa 8:9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.
1Sa 8:10 And Samuel told all the words of the LORD unto the people that asked of him a king.
1Sa 8:11 And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots.
1Sa 8:12 And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and will set them to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots.
1Sa 8:13 And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers.
1Sa 8:14 And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants.
1Sa 8:15 And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants.
1Sa 8:16 And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your *****, and put them to his work.
1Sa 8:17 He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants.
1Sa 8:18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not hear you in that day.
1Sa 8:19 Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us;
1Sa 8:20 That we also may be like all the nations; and that our king may judge us, and go out before us, and fight our battles.

It is still happening today in many churches.

LA

 

[Shubee]

It is impossible for Christ to presence Himself by the Spirit among an apostate group of people meeting under a name/names which blasphemes God our Father.

And what is that blasphemous name that blasphemes God our Father?

 

[Sancocho]

The RCC was formed by apostates so they were never in the body of Christ.

LA

No problem. Where did you get your Bible from?

 

[Sancocho]

My understanding of the Body of Christ means all those who are saved. I consider it highly probable that the RCC always had some genuine believers in Christ, regardless of the overt apostasy of the church leadership.

The term Jesus used for a church in Matthew was a community with a hierarchal structure with Peter as it's head.

I do understand your interpretation has become very common in the last 100+ years but this is a recent interpretation. The consequences for this interpretation have been the separation of the Church in the US, with obviously disastrous results.

 

[Sancocho]

It is impossible for Christ to presence Himself by the Spirit among an apostate group of people meeting under a name/names which blasphemes God our Father.

Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

1Sa 8:6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.
1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
1Sa 8:8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.
1Sa 8:9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.
1Sa 8:10 And Samuel told all the words of the LORD unto the people that asked of him a king.
1Sa 8:11 And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots.
1Sa 8:12 And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and will set them to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots.
1Sa 8:13 And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers.
1Sa 8:14 And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants.
1Sa 8:15 And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants.
1Sa 8:16 And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your *****, and put them to his work.
1Sa 8:17 He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants.
1Sa 8:18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not hear you in that day.
1Sa 8:19 Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us;
1Sa 8:20 That we also may be like all the nations; and that our king may judge us, and go out before us, and fight our battles.

It is still happening today in many churches.

LA

Please explain why the name of the Roman Catholic Church is blasphemous.

 

[Shubee]

The term Jesus used for a church in Matthew was a community with a hierarchal structure with Peter as it's head.

And where is your evidence to support that?

 

[Shubee]

I do understand your interpretation has become very common in the last 100+ years but this is a recent interpretation.

So either you believe that the Body of Christ has unsaved people in it or that all Catholics are saved? Which is it?

 

[Sancocho]

And where is your evidence to support that?

The Gospel of Matthew.

 

[Sancocho]

So either you believe that the Body of Christ has unsaved people in it or that all Catholics are saved? Which is it?

Your illogic eludes me, sorry.