Paul's gospel was a mystery!

andyc

New member
You'll have to pardon Andy, he just came back from traveling on "Benny Hinn's All-Star Medicine Show" and he's all tuckered out.

Interesting that Hinn should be brought up. He just came to my church. Yeah
I was totally unimpressed. Turned up in a limo, requested 3 offerings, and ministered exellently on nothing.
Why he was invited I'll never know, but he really apparantly likes our church. Will cross examine the pastor on this when I get chance.
 

Danoh

New member
You're all heart.



Paul had just seen a vision that changed his life. He'd spent a few days blind. And he'd just been filled with the Holy Spirit.
What do you suppose he talked about with the other disciples? The weather?




Oh come on.
Paul was talking about the vision he had concerning his calling to preach to the gentiles.

Acts 26:12-21
.......as I journeyed to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, "at midday, O king, along the road I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining around me and those who journeyed with me. "And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’ "So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. ‘But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. ‘I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, ‘to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ "Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, "but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.

No, andyc not the obvious...that is Paul's account of his encounter with the Lord in early Acts 9, when he was on his way to Damascus to hunt down the believing Israelites.

While what I posted took place after that encounter.

After that encounter - that you so screwed up - he went into Damascus, then when he was strengthened he left for Arabia and received the spiritual uncircumcision gospel that he himself was the first saved under, then returned to Damascus and preached to Israel that Jesus had been the Christ, etc.

Which is exactly what one first proves to a Jew when preaching what is even today basically the gospel of the uncircumcision; given that just before Paul was saved, God had concluded unbelieving Israel in spiritual uncircumcision with the Gentiles, and was now extending His mercy towards both without the circumcision in the flesh distinction.

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

Romans 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

Both had now been concluded spiritual uncircumcision...

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Holy King James Bible - what now, Batman?

This, old chum...

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

Romans 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

By the way, those passages from Romans 3 and Romans 11 that I have cited here are the same issue that Ephesians 2 is talking about.
 

andyc

New member
No, andyc not the obvious...that is Paul's account of his encounter with the Lord in early Acts 9, when he was on his way to Damascus to hunt down the believing Israelites.

While what I posted took place after that encounter.

Firstly we're talking about Paul's salvation. Secondly, the verse in Galatians you quoted is referring to the vision that Paul talks about in Acts 26.

After that encounter - that you so screwed up - he went into Damascus, then when he was strengthened he left for Arabia and received the spiritual uncircumcision gospel that he himself was the first saved under, then returned to Damascus and preached to Israel that Jesus had been the Christ, etc.

Prove it.


Which is exactly what one first proves to a Jew when preaching what is even today basically the gospel of the uncircumcision; given that just before Paul was saved, God had concluded unbelieving Israel in spiritual uncircumcision with the Gentiles, and was now extending His mercy towards both without the circumcision in the flesh distinction.

Prove it.

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

Romans 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

Both had now been concluded spiritual uncircumcision...

All directed towards unbelieving Jews. Paul stated that only those who are of faith are Abraham's children. Those what are not Christ's are illegitimate.

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Holy King James Bible - what now, Batman?

This, old chum...

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

Romans 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

By the way, those passages from Romans 3 and Romans 11 that I have cited here are the same issue that Ephesians 2 is talking about.

‘But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. ‘I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, ‘to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

Galatians 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

All very simple.
 

bbdbbb

New member
Was Paul's gospel a mystery, I.e. Hidden but now revealed. I don't think so. It's easy to draw that conclusion looking at the words he uses, but you have to ask a range of questions: 1. What does Paul mean by 'my' gospel. I don't believe this signifies uniqueness or possession but simply 'the good news I preach.' 2. Hidden from whom? Certainly God knew. Hidden from the apostles? The Jews? The whole world? The 'natural man'? And is it fully hidden or only certain aspects of it hidden? 3. How did contemporaries and those who lived and wrote closer to the time of Paul see this? Certainly this would have caused no small stir and church historians, theologians and writers of the 1st and 2nd century would have said something, anything... silence. 4. How much of this interpretation depends on the human invention of 'dispensations'? How much of this is a direct flow-on from the teachings of Darby, Bollinger, Scofield, O'Hair and Stam? There are all manner of conclusions one might come to simply from reading and interpreting the Bible at face value, but Darby and Scofield enshrined the dispensational schema and this has been the lens through which Bible readers and some (few) scholars have looked at the Bible since. I would dare say some have taken this to extremes, dismissing centuries of Spirit-led and scholarly study in favor of a system that appears to make all the Bible's contradictions melt away. Sorry, but there are far more contradictions than any of these dispensation all preachers can unravel. Just ask Bart Ehrmann. Anyhow, enough said for now. Enjoy your studying.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
a system that appears to make all the Bible's contradictions melt away. Sorry, but there are far more contradictions than any of these dispensation all preachers can unravel. Just ask Bart Ehrmann. Anyhow, enough said for now. Enjoy your studying.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

There are no contradictions in the Bible
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Firstly we're talking about Paul's salvation. Secondly, the verse in Galatians you quoted is referring to the vision that Paul talks about in Acts 26.



Prove it.




Prove it.



All directed towards unbelieving Jews. Paul stated that only those who are of faith are Abraham's children. Those what are not Christ's are illegitimate.



‘But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. ‘I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, ‘to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

Galatians 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

All very simple.
Prove it
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Was Paul's gospel a mystery, I.e. Hidden but now revealed. I don't think so. It's easy to draw that conclusion looking at the words he uses,
Yes, it is easy Romans 16:25-27 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV, Galatians 1:11-12 KJV
but you have to ask a range of questions:
No "but". We should believe scripture means what it says, as it says and to whom it says it. Why don't you?
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
1 Cor 15:1-4 (KJV)

I guess I will say it again.

The nuts and bolts of this gospel can be found by looking back into the prophets, and through types and shadows.

But, the fact that God would compile them into a unit and present them as a gospel to us, and for our glory, was a mystery.

The mystery of Christ.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
There are for those who believe the Bible is all written to the same people with the same good news and inheritance as it clearly says a lot of different things.

The NT was written for believers in Jesus Christ. If something is not applicable to you then don't apply it.

Use discretion and an open mind, which is a receptive spirit.
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Exodus 32:14 KJV

Psalm 50

21 These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.

22 Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver.

23 Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth his conversation aright will I shew the salvation of God.



MSG
Next, God calls up the wicked: “What are you up to, quoting my laws, talking like we are good friends? You never answer the door when I call; you treat my words like garbage. If you find a thief, you make him your buddy; adulterers are your friends of choice. Your mouth drools filth; lying is a serious art form with you. You stab your own brother in the back, rip off your little sister. I kept a quiet patience while you did these things; you thought I went along with your game. I’m calling you on the carpet, now, laying your wickedness out in plain sight.
 
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