ECT Our triune God

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

God's incommunicable attributes include...
Eternity (Timelessness)
Infinity (Non-Quantifiability)
Immensity (Non-Spatiality)
Immutability (Non-Changeability)
Simplicity (Non-Divisibility/Non-Compoundability)
Necessity (Non-Contingency)
Aseity (Self-Existence, including Self-Consciousness)
Impassability (Non-Passionality)
Immateriality (Non-Materiality)

Opera ad intra cannot include ek-/ex- procession, which is going from one place to another. That violates God's Immensity as Non-Spatiality. There is no "where" from OR to which to proceed as spatialities within God for additional alleged hypostases.

Not to mention that it would also violate His Eternity as Timelessness (since ek-/ex- procession would also be linearity and sequentiality along with spatiality), AND it also violates His Infinity as Non-Quantifiability.

 

[Sancocho]

No. By your own accounting, it was A (one) person" (hypostasis) encountered. I asked you repeatedly for ANY occasion of ANYONE encountering the alleged three hypostases at any point.

No one has encountered the Father, as far as I have heard witness from the Orthodox. He dwells in unapproachable light. Others have encountered the Son or the Holy Spirit, but not both.

There isn't a living human in history who has concurrently encountered the alleged three hypostases; and even if someone had encountered Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in such a manner, it STILL DOESN'T mean they're individuated hypostases.

It's a doctrinal formulaic. And it's an inversion of the true uni-hypostatic multi-phenomenality of God. God is not Gorilla-glued siamese triplets. The one God is the Father, as is His Logos and Pneuma. You should actually be quite thankful the Holy Spirit is not an individuated hypostasis, because He hypostatically co-inheres YOU to the Son.



Your appeal to a consensus dialectic is noted. A small contained majority who are identically indoctrinated is not a compelling argument. I'm sure it's a logical fallacy of some sort.



As are most who are religiously zealous. Proponents of ancient religions can boast of this in some manner. And it IS boasting of some proportion. The pride of precedence, when God is timeless.



You'd have to provide a bit of evidence for this apophatic. I'd have to say the fruit of the Spirit is not consistently immitable, but I don't think you're accurately representing the minions of him who appears as an angel of light.



Sigh. I never said any such thing. My statement was the absolute assurance and confident persuasion of faith, not pride. I have taken very seriously the ministry of reconciliation given us. It should be part of our testimony as those who are IN Christ.



Well... You can't have it both ways. Subsequent Believers just adhered to the taught dogma. They certainly weren't part of the Cappadocian Fathers' efforts (which I greatly applaud, if you'll recall).

You insist God cannot be known or described in definition to any greater degree than was done by the Early Fathers, who didn't and couldn't account for heaven being created. It's their bare assertion as lip service to a created heaven that is the problem. You can't see how timelessness and everlasting time have been co-mingled and declared as somehow distinct.



Hold up, there, Hoss. As much disdain as I have for the Latins and certain things about the Reformation and its modern Evangelical-skunk offspring spraying everything in sight with binaries of splintered doctrines... at least the Reformed tradition allows for an eternal, infinite, immense, and innately transcendent God to be more deeply revealed through the ages of the faith.

And it is not the paltry and minimal evangelistic efforts of the Orthodox that have spread the Christian faith around the globe. That would be the efforts of the Latins and their spawn as Protestants. You should actually be embarassed at the (lack of) evangelistic history in Orthodoxy. The US presence itself is quite recent and marginal, with little real focus on any attempts to convert the lost on any scale.

You don't even know what multi-phenomenality IS yet; and you've insisted God isn't uncreated phenomenon or that He even is conscious of Himself. The degree of apophaticism in Orthodoxy is numbing any real apprehension of the final depths of truth for Theology Proper.

The Son is the express image OF God's hypostasis; the exact impress OF that singular hypostasis upon the wax of His LITERAL Logos, sealed with His OWN Spirit upon that which would be unrolled as creation's scroll to be RE-presented by a distint eternal prosopon in the created heaven.

This is not remotely ANY form of Modalism, but is that which Modalists were attempting to access in opposition to multi-hypostaticsm. Modalists are uni-phenomenalists, like you are. You have more in common with Modalists, Arians, Binitarians, Unitarians, (and even Gnostics) etc. than I do. All of you are uni-phenomenalists. That's the central problem with ALL competing historical formulaics, including the endless modern proliferation of bogus three-hypostases trinities.



As have all dilutions of the Christian faith in the Latin and Protestant traditions.

I love you, my Brother. I love the Orthodox. I love the depth of truth and the heritage of faithfulness.

There was one thing missed. One. And that is common to ALL Theology Proper models throughout the ages.

It's not arrogance for me to search that out and have it revealed to me. It's faith and obedience.

What is your denomination?

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

What is your denomination?

Raised Southern Baptist for 35 years, including 12 years as a Pastor. Spent a subsequent decade in a Holiness fellowship, then a Pentecostal fellowship and non-denominational fellowship for several years.

I regularly attend a Lutheran (Missouri Synod) fellowship, considering being catechized. There's no denominational confession I can wholly embrace and affirm.

 

[fzappa13]

Raised Southern Baptist for 35 years, including 12 years as a Pastor. Spent a subsequent decade in a Holiness fellowship, then a Pentecostal fellowship and non-denominational fellowship for several years.

I regularly attend a Lutheran (Missouri Synod) fellowship, considering being catechized. There's no denominational confession I can wholly embrace and affirm.

:rotfl:

... and so continues my love/hate relationship with Baptist preachers.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

:rotfl:

... and so continues my love/hate relationship with Baptist preachers.

Well... I'm most assuredly not Baptist. I'm saved now.:chuckle:

I wasn't aware of any disdain you might have for me. Do tell.:chew:

 

[fzappa13]

Well... I'm most assuredly not Baptist. I'm saved now.:chuckle:

I wasn't aware of any disdain you might have for me. Do tell.:chew:

Now I didn't say whether it was love or hate now, did I? :chuckle:

It's just really interesting to me the breadth of relationships I've had with Baptist preachers ... and being a practicing Nonismatist I'm about as non-denominational as it gets.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Now I didn't say whether it was love or hate now, did I? :chuckle:

It's just really interesting to me the breadth of relationships I've had with Baptist preachers ... and being a practicing Nonismatist I'm about as non-denominational as it gets.

Numismatist. I see what you did there.

Muahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

And let's set to rest the silliness of any degree of Neo-Platonist drivel that God is non-existent because He is beyond created existence as transcendent.

The etymology for exist...

From French exister, from Latin existō (“to stand forth, come forth, arise, be”), from ex (“out”) + sistere (“to set, place”), caus. of stare (“to stand”); see stand. Compare assist, consist, desist, insist, persist, resist. exist (third-person singular simple present exists, present participle existing, simple past and past participle existed) to be; have existence; have being or reality

Exist means "out of setting or placing", "causing to stand".

God is a hypostasis, which is hypo- (under) and -stasis (to stand). As the uncaused cause, God as a hypostasis has underlying foundational substantial objective reality of existence.

The hypostasis (foundational reality) "has" the ousia (be-ing). This means that Greek, Latin, French, and English etymology and definition assert God's existence in affirmation of inspired scripture.

Is God's existence beyond created existence? Yes. He is uncreated transcendent existence. Self-existence. Uncaused.

God exists. And He said so in Hebrew, just as Jesus did recorded in Greek.

Enough with the stupidity of God being neither non-existent nor existent. Out of His hypostasis, He "has" existence as His eternal wealth of be-ing. Creation, as existence, would not "have" something God, as Creator, does not have. His is a qualitatively different existence. Uncreated versus created existence.

God is uncaused Self-existence. Creation is caused existence. Monumentally huge difference. No need to make God beyond existence and non-existence and conflate the Faith with Neo-Platonist rubbish.

 

[Arsenios]

If one worships three Gods
or three persons in God,
they do not worship the LORD God of Israel.

John 14:11
I (am) in the Father,
the Father (is) in me...

John 10:30
I and my Father are one.

John 14:20
I am in my Father,
and ye in me,
and I in you.

John 15:1
I am the True Vine,
and
My Father is the Husbandman.

Scripture plainly states that...
The Father and the Son are One...
AND...
That they are Two...

It is a small matter to understand two owners of the same property...

Father and Son own the Ousia that is God, together with the Holy Spirit...

The question is this: Can two or more Divine Hypostases co-inhere in one another?

The Orthodox say yes...

And speak from the experience of Divinization, which is quintessentially such a co-inherence...

So as well are the words cited above...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

And let's set to rest the silliness of any degree of Neo-Platonist drivel that God is non-existent because He is beyond created existence as transcendent.

The etymology for exist...

From French exister, from Latin existō (“to stand forth, come forth, arise, be”), from ex (“out”) + sistere (“to set, place”), caus. of stare (“to stand”); see stand. Compare assist, consist, desist, insist, persist, resist. exist (third-person singular simple present exists, present participle existing, simple past and past participle existed) to be; have existence; have being or reality

Exist means "out of setting or placing", "causing to stand".

God is a hypostasis, which is hypo- (under) and -stasis (to stand). As the uncaused cause, God as a hypostasis has underlying foundational substantial objective reality of existence.

The hypostasis (foundational reality) "has" the ousia (be-ing). This means that Greek, Latin, French, and English etymology and definition assert God's existence in affirmation of inspired scripture.

Is God's existence beyond created existence? Yes. He is uncreated transcendent existence. Self-existence. Uncaused.

God exists. And He said so in Hebrew, just as Jesus did recorded in Greek.

Enough with the stupidity of God being neither non-existent nor existent. Out of His hypostasis, He "has" existence as His eternal wealth of be-ing. Creation, as existence, would not "have" something God, as Creator, does not have. His is a qualitatively different existence. Uncreated versus created existence.

God is uncaused Self-existence. Creation is caused existence. Monumentally huge difference. No need to make God beyond existence and non-existence and conflate the Faith with Neo-Platonist rubbish.

By this logic, God is ALL that he created...

He is the hypostasis OF all created existence...

THEREFORE...

One cannot call God that which He created...

We CAN say, as a sop to philosophy, that He is Self-Existent...

But this is condescension...

Because WE are NOT self-existent...

Therefore we cannot understand self-existence...

OUR existence is subsisted by His...

Arsenios

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

John 14:11
I (am) in the Father,
the Father (is) in me...

John 10:30
I and my Father are one.

John 14:20
I am in my Father,
and ye in me,
and I in you.

John 15:1
I am the True Vine,
and
My Father is the Husbandman.

Scripture plainly states that...
The Father and the Son are One...
AND...
That they are Two...

In no way does this intimate multiple hypostases. You never start at a neutral point, you're always looking to justify a pre-supposed position (and ONLY because of Patristic assertion. ONLY. By your own declaration. ONLY.)

It is a small matter to understand two owners of the same property...

Two owners is two ousios.

Father and Son own the Ousia that is God, together with the Holy Spirit...

There's that ridiculous uni-phenomenal horizontality and sequential linearity again of the Cube's one same-colored side.

All you can see is adjacentness of multiple spatial somethings. Ack and yak. You don't have any idea how shallow this is.

The question is this: Can two or more Divine Hypostases co-inhere in one another?

That's not the question at all, you entitled biased indoctrinate. The question is... Are Father, Son, and Holy Spirit individuated hypostases to begin with?

They're not.

The Orthodox say yes...

The Orthodox are deluded functional Tritheists, fostering greater and greater degrees of Tritheism in modern conceptualized culture by their fallacious Gorilla-glued siamese triplets.

And speak from the experience of Divinization, which is quintessentially such a co-inherence...

You're still conflating hypostatic union with perichoresis. You misrepresent your own doctrine even after being repeatedly corrected. It's sad when a non-Orthodox knows Orthodox doctrine better than the Orthodox.

So as well are the words cited above...

Arsenios

You have no idea what hypostatic union with Christ is OR how it ontologically occurs.

Your false Trinity has been destroying the Gospel of Jesus Christ for nearly two thousand years. You have no idea that the fullness rests on the crucial understanding of God's sinuglar multi-phenomenal hypostasis for our translation into Christ.

Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Come out of mere hope into faith.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

By this logic, God is ALL that he created...

He is the hypostasis OF all created existence...

THEREFORE...

One cannot call God that which He created...

We CAN say, as a sop to philosophy, that He is Self-Existent...

But this is condescension...

Because WE are NOT self-existent...

Therefore we cannot understand self-existence...

OUR existence is subsisted by His...

Arsenios

Neo-Platonist.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

God's incommunicable attributes include...
Eternity (Timelessness)
Infinity (Non-Quantifiability)
Immensity (Non-Spatiality)
Immutability (Non-Changeability)
Simplicity (Non-Divisibility/Non-Compoundability)
Necessity (Non-Contingency)
Aseity (Self-Existence, including Self-Consciousness)
Impassability (Non-Passionality)
Immateriality (Non-Materiality)

Opera ad intra cannot include ek-/ex- procession, which is going from one place to another. That violates God's Immensity as Non-Spatiality. There is no "where" from OR to which to proceed as spatialities within God for additional alleged hypostases.

Not to mention that it would also violate His Eternity as Timelessness (since ek-/ex- procession would also be linearity and sequentiality along with spatiality), AND it also violates His Infinity as Non-Quantifiability.

I'm beginning to see why you must disregard original sin.

Even though Adam and his descendants have always been the

offspring of God, Adam's descendants have Adam's hypostasis.

That is the hypostasis of unrighteous sinner.



You still need to reconcile Paul's statement that we are all God's offspring.

And that we are in Him at all times.

Now to me, that statement is truly multi- phenomenal and completely wrecks Theology Proper.

Dude, you really need to get out of the religions, yer a mess.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Father and Son own the Ousia that is God, together with the Holy Spirit...


Arsenios

Nope. The Son knows as he is known.


The Holy Spirit speaks what He has heard.


1 Corinthians 15:27 KJV


27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

I'm beginning to see why you must disregard original sin.

Even though Adam and his descendants have always been the

offspring of God, Adam's descendants have Adam's hypostasis.

That is the hypostasis of unrighteous sinner.

You still need to reconcile Paul's statement that we are all God's offspring.

And that we are in Him at all times.

Now that statement is truly multi- phenomenal to me and completely wrecks Theology Proper.

Dude, you really need to get out of the religions, yer a mess.

One of your many core problems is you don't have any idea what hypostasis means AND presume a wrong definition in its place.

Dude, yerself. Done with ya. Ciao.

 

[Arsenios]

John 14:11
I (am) in the Father,
the Father (is) in me...

John 10:30
I and my Father are one.

John 14:20
I am in my Father,
and ye in me,
and I in you.

John 15:1
I am the True Vine,
and
My Father is the Husbandman.

Scripture plainly states that...
The Father and the Son are One...
AND...
That they are Two...

Two owners is two ousios.

That is YOUR presupposition...

You have not demonstrated its necessity...

There's that ridiculous uni-phenomenal horizontality and sequential linearity again of the Cube's one same-colored side.

All you can see is adjacentness of multiple spatial somethings.
Ack and yak.
You don't have any idea how shallow this is.

Argument by insult and excoriation...

That's not the question at all,
you entitled biased indoctrinate.

Well, I must say that I prefer the terms open minded, fair, reasonable, and questioning... But YOUR name-calling is actually more persuasive of the truth-status of your understanding...

We could, I suppose, step off 20 paces and turn and hurl insults back and forth in, say, 20 word bursts three times, and then have a vote on who hurls the best ones, and decide the truth that way...

The question is... Are Father, Son, and Holy Spirit individuated hypostases to begin with?

That is YOUR question, and OUR answer is no, of course not. WE begin with One God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible...

Where do YOU begin?

They're not.

Good,

The Orthodox are deluded functional Tritheists, fostering greater and greater degrees of Tritheism in modern conceptualized culture by their fallacious Gorilla-glued siamese triplets.

Well now there's a humble and contrite spirit...

You have no idea what hypostatic union with Christ is OR how it ontologically occurs.

We only know how it praxelogically occurs, and have been discipling that praxeology for 2000 years...

Your false Trinity has been destroying the Gospel of Jesus Christ for nearly two thousand years. You have no idea that the fullness rests on the crucial understanding of God's singular multi-phenomenal hypostasis for our translation into Christ.

Doctrinal understanding is a consequence, not a cause, of hypostatic union with Christ... The Body of Christ CAUSES this union when we baptize 40 day old newborns into Christ... That illiterate baby knows far more than think-tank brainiacs imagine they know about union with God...

Jes' sayin'...

Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Indeed -

Come out of mere hope into faith.

Back at ya!

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Nope. The Son knows as he is known.


The Holy Spirit speaks what He has heard.


1 Corinthians 15:27 KJV


27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

Yup... Three Hypostases with one will and one ousia...

Arsenios

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

One of your many core problems is you don't have any idea what hypostasis means AND presume a wrong definition in its place.

LOL. It's a manmade philosophical term that all philosophers bandy about at will.

Making things up as they go.

I really do want to thank you for expounding to me why I dont need

Theology Proper.

Lesson of course it is in the outhouse where it's to dark to read.

Dude, yerself. Done with ya. Ciao.

Saul rite, bro.

I dont do man inspired religion.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Yup... Three Hypostases with one will and one ousia...

Arsenios

:doh:

 

[Arsenios]

:doh:

:thumb:

A.