ECT Other evidences that Jesus is equal to Father God

Z

ZacharyB

Active member
Cross Reference said:
ZacharyB said:
Can you point out where the Holy Spirit ever came upon anyone before Pentecost
other than Mary being overshadowed?
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Jesus received Him UPON, and ditto for Zach and Liz.

The UPON method was utilized in the old covenant.
I believe twice prophets said He came INSIDE,
but IMHO they were confused about this.
In all other cases in the OT, UPON was specified.
Note: He came UPON the prophets and some kings.

UPON refers to God's ANOINTING ... in both OT and NT.

In the NT, "UPON" refers to Jesus' anointing with the baptism with the Holy Spirit,
which is confirmed by the initial speaking of at least a few words in tongues.

Those who receive the Spirit INSIDE (in the NT) are NOT "anointed".

It should be blatantly obvious why these spiritual Truths are NOT taught
in almost all churches. But, alas, it is not ... not taught nor obvious.
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Z

ZacharyB

Active member
meshak said:
So you ignore where Jesus says
"My Father is greater than I"?[/QUOTE]

Meshak, I've explained this countless times ...

Forgetting Jesus' example (for our benefit) of humility, and the fact that
Father God always has more authority than the Word or the Holy Spirit:

While He was stumbling around in a human body eating bread and fish to survive,
Jesus was far less in every way than Father God in heaven.
Click to expand...
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
ZacharyB said:
Cross Reference said:
Jesus received Him UPON, and ditto for Zach and Liz.

The UPON method was utilized in the old covenant.
I believe twice prophets said He came INSIDE,
but IMHO they were confused about this.
In all other case, UPON was specified.

UPON refers to God's ANOINTING ... in both OT and NT.

Those who receive the Spirit INSIDE (in the NT) are NOT "anointed".
Click to expand...

I am glad you pointed out those three unique exceptions, although Zach and Liz never experienced the point I am trying to make beyond the testimony intended by them by an inward example of what happens when the Holy Spirit does come "UPON" as an outward manifestation, re the Holy Spirit Baptism of Acts 2. I.e., something "happens" that takes away all doubt that the "coming "UPON" is a very unique experience and God is in it!
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Z

ZacharyB

Active member
Cross Reference said:
ZacharyB said:
I am glad you pointed out those three unique exceptions ...
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It was not God's plan to ANOINT believers until they received
the new birth/nature and the indwelling Holy Spirit.
The baptism with the Holy Spirit always comes AFTER the above experience.
Or at the same time (as on the Day of Pentecost, and today also).

Let it be understood that poor Peter (nor anyone else)
understood what had just happened on the Day of Pentecost.
No one understood that the Spirit had come both INSIDE and UPON.

The proof of UPON was everyone speaking in tongues.
In several other cases in Acts, UPON is connected with tongues.
In some other case in Acts, UPON does not have the tongues mentioned.
Not all facets of an experience are reported on all of the time!
'Tis not the Bible long enough as it is?

And, as with all spiritual Truths, what part does the Holy Spirit play
... if everything is spelled out totally, completely, and clearly?
What would be the necessity of being "led by the Spirit"?

Christianity is not by intellect, education, logic, reasoning, etc.
It is by being led by the Spirit.
Click to expand...
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
ZacharyB said:
Cross Reference said:
It was not God's plan to ANOINT believers until they received
the new birth/nature and the indwelling Holy Spirit.
The baptism with the Holy Spirit always comes AFTER the above experience.
Or at the same time (as on the Day of Pentecost, and today also)
Click to expand...
.

Yes and your point? Question: Is that the way it happened in Acts 19 1ff?

Let it be understood that poor Peter (nor anyone else)
understood what had just happened on the Day of Pentecost.
No one understood that the Spirit had come both INSIDE and UPON.
Click to expand...

I didn't say anyone understood, did I? But nevertheless, they did. They knew because Jesus told them to expect the "promise" of the Father, Right??

The proof of UPON was everyone speaking in tongues.
In several other cases in Acts, UPON is connected with tongues.
In some other case in Acts, UPON does not have the tongues mentioned.
Not all facets of an experience are reported on all of the time!
'Tis not the Bible long enough as it is?
Click to expand...

Yes. And??

And, as with all spiritual Truths, what part does the Holy Spirit play
... if everything is spelled out totally, completely, and clearly?
What would be the necessity of being "led by the Spirit"?

Christianity is not by intellect, education, logic, reasoning, etc.
It is by being led by the Spirit.
Click to expand...

So, with all that, are you agreeing with me or trying to explain why you aren't?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
ZacharyB said:
Jesus received Him UPON, and ditto for Zach and Liz.

The UPON method was utilized in the old covenant.
I believe twice prophets said He came INSIDE,
but IMHO they were confused about this.
In all other cases in the OT, UPON was specified.
Note: He came UPON the prophets and some kings.

UPON refers to God's ANOINTING ... in both OT and NT.

In the NT, "UPON" refers to Jesus' anointing with the baptism with the Holy Spirit,
which is confirmed by the initial speaking of at least a few words in tongues.

Those who receive the Spirit INSIDE (in the NT) are NOT "anointed".

It should be blatantly obvious why these spiritual Truths are NOT taught
in almost all churches. But, alas, it is not ... not taught nor obvious.
Click to expand...

Looks like he was in them.

Which is where he would have to be at least while he was moving them to speak.

1 Peter 1:11 KJV


11 Searching what , or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify , when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow .
 
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Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
1Mind1Spirit said:
ZacharyB said:
Looks like he was in them.

Which is where he would have to be at least while he was moving them to speak.

1 Peter 1:11 KJV


11 Searching what , or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify , when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow .
Click to expand...


You need to sort out a little better who wrote what. You are quoting Zach, not me.
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1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Cross Reference said:
I am glad you pointed out those three unique exceptions, although Zach and Liz never experienced the point I am trying to make beyond the testimony intended by them by an inward example of what happens when the Holy Spirit does come "UPON" as an outward manifestation, re the Holy Spirit Baptism of Acts 2. I.e., something "happens" that takes away all doubt that the "coming "UPON" is a very unique experience and God is in it!
Click to expand...

Yes, tongues are for a sign.

However this does not mean one's understanding is fruitful.

The baptism by fire comes next.

It is terrible, heated 7 times hotter than.........


It is only after this, that we may offer sacrifices salted with fire.
 
keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
ZacharyB said:
meshak said:
So you ignore where Jesus says
"My Father is greater than I"?[/QUOTE]

Meshak, I've explained this countless times ...

Forgetting Jesus' example (for our benefit) of humility, and the fact that
Father God always has more authority than the Word or the Holy Spirit:

While He was stumbling around in a human body eating bread and fish to survive,
Jesus was far less in every way than Father God in heaven.
Click to expand...

Still is and always will be less than his God.
Click to expand...
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
1Mind1Spirit said:
Yes, tongues are for a sign.

However this does not mean one's understanding is fruitful.

The baptism by fire comes next.

It is terrible, heated 7 times hotter than.........


It is only after this, that we may offer sacrifices salted with fire.
Click to expand...

Who are you reading? What are you smoking? You know of no God I recognize.
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
ZacharyB said:
Other evidences that the Father and Son are totally equal in unity and purpose

• John 14:10-11 “Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?
… Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me”
• John 12:45 “And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me.”
• John 14:7-11 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also;
and from now on you know Him and have seen Him … He who has seen Me
has seen the Father … Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me”
• John 14:28 “I said, ‘I am going to the Father’, for My Father is greater than I.”
Jesus not only spoke this out of humility, but it was obviously the utmost reality.
While walking around in a human body, how could Jesus be Father God’s equal?
Part God and part man on earth surely is much less than Father God in heaven!
• John 17:5 “the glory which I had with You before the world was.”
Surely, no angel ever shared the glory of Almighty God at any time!

Jesus claimed equality with Father God
• Matthew 4:7 “You shall not tempt the Lord your God.”
• John 5:18 “(Jesus) said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.”
• John 5:23 “that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father.
He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.”
• John 10:33 “(we stone you) because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”
• John 10:36 “(I am blaspheming) because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?
• John 10:38 “that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”
• John 14:9 “He who has seen Me has seen the Father”
• John 17:22 “that they may be one just as We are one”
• John 20:28-29 “And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed.
Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Jesus is the Sustainer of all things now
• “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth,
visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.
All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things,
and in Him all things consist.” (Colossians 1:15-17)
• “God … has in these last days spoken to us by His Son,
whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person,
and upholding all things by the word of His power …” (Hebrews 1:1-3)

Jesus holds all power and authority over our world.
If He were to say, “All electrons slow down!” …or… “All electrons speed up!”,
our world (and we with it) would instantly disappear into nothing!
And people say that Jesus is not God, nor even equal to Father God!
Here’s the explanation of “disappear into nothing” …

Molecular scientists say only one-millionth of an atom consists of solid matter,
and all the rest is empty space!

At the center of an atom is a positively-charged nucleus.
At a relatively great distance from the nucleus are one or more negatively-charged
electrons, which circle around the nucleus at an incredible speed.
This is similar to a fan blade … both the atom and the fan appear to be totally SOLID.

The Force-A of attraction between the electron (negative) and the nucleus (positive)
must be exactly equal to the Force-B velocity of the moving electron …
in order for it to maintain its’ perfect circular pattern.

IF Jesus commanded, “All electrons slow down” …
Forces-A would be greater than Forces-B, causing all electrons to collapse into their nuclei.

IF Jesus commanded, “All electrons speed up” …
Forces-B would be greater than Forces-A, causing all electrons to fly off into space.

IF Jesus commanded either of these two things …
all atoms would disintegrate (disappear), leaving basically nothing at all.

Hey, welcome to the real world!
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Sadly, your view of those scriptures does not support your conclusions.

Interestingly, do did not include

John 14:28 “I said, ‘I am going to the Father’, for My Father is greater than I.”
Click to expand...

as support for your theory

Jesus claimed equality with Father God
Click to expand...

You did not include John 10:30 under your category of

Other evidences that the Father and Son are totally equal in unity and purpose
Click to expand...

with obvious inconsistencies as that, what thinking believer would accept your conclusions?

Not me!
 
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