'Nother Newbster

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Uh, no. Jesus is referred to as "The Word of God", but that's a NT thing, isn't it?

This is OT so it's original audience would not have had any indication of how the passage indicated Jesus rather than the Father.


I'm afraid I don't know what you're taing about.


Jesus'. We're in the OT. It's audience had no way to determine that the word might actually refer to The Word.

Adamant? Not really. I don't have any strong convictions on a trinity doctrine. As long as you recognise Jesus as God and Him raised from the dead and confess Him as Lord and saviour that's about the limit of my doctrine.

Ahhhhh. Okay, then. I must have gotten the wrong impression. Perhaps it was from aCulture indicating you would shred me, and by my perception from your comments. I shall now desist.

 

[Stripe]

Ahhhhh. Okay, then. I must have gotten the wrong impression. Perhaps it was from aCulture indicating you would shred me, and by my perception from your comments. I shall now desist.

Er ... Contrary to popular belief, I'm not bent on shredding people.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Er ... Contrary to popular belief, I'm not bent on shredding people.

LOL. I should not have taken my impression of you from someone else. My sincerest apologies for my tone with you.

As should be obvious, I'm gracious and cordial unless/until someone begins labeling me inappropriately or intentionally provokes me with misrepresentation for no reason other than their own sense of false superiority needing to anathematize me by their loveless personal subjective criteria.

My primary issue with Trinity doctrine is that it doesn't present the REAL Deity of Christ; and it diminishes God to a level of impotence in Cosmology for the creative act. I was lost because of the consensus doctrine of men declaring God as three "persons"/ one "being". That's why I am so adamant and responsive to others' condescension, etc.

The tenets of the Trinitarian formula can be retained (as my affirmation list shows), and the error corrected. But it's the sacred centerpiece of man's gradual corruption of the faith. Few can conceive of anything else, they're so indoctrinated. You don't necessarily seem to be among those.

 

[Stripe]

LOL. I should not have taken my impression of you from someone else. My sincerest apologies for my tone with you.

Yes. And well sorry you should be!

I prefer to beat people with golf clubs.

:crackup:

As should be obvious, I'm gracious and cordial unless/until someone begins labeling me inappropriately or intentionally provokes me with misrepresentation for no reason other than their own sense of false superiority needing to anathematize me by their loveless personal subjective criteria.

Whoa. I'll tread carefully then.

My primary issue with Trinity doctrine is that it doesn't present the REAL Deity of Christ; and it diminishes God to a level of impotence in Cosmology for the creative act. I was lost because of the consensus doctrine of men declaring God as three "persons"/ one "being". That's why I am so adamant and responsive to others' condescension, etc. The tenets of the Trinitarian formula can be retained (as my affirmation list shows), and the error corrected. But it's the sacred centerpiece of man's gradual corruption of the faith. Few can conceive of anything else, they're so indoctrinated. You don't necessarily seem to be among those.

I'm not sure what you think the error is still. :idunno:

This is probably why I tend to stay away from the theology threads.

 

[Tambora]

F/S/HS are all distinct, all uncreated, all eternal, all non-modal ontological Deity. The Father is not the Son is not the Father (are not the Holy Spirit).

Yeppers.

But God is NOT three hypostases/one ousia as a Trinity of three "persons"/one "being".

What term would you rather use for "persons" or "being"?

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Yes. And well sorry you should be!

I prefer to beat people with golf clubs.

:crackup:

Ha! Like... humiliating them with a mid-60s score on a PGA course? Or like... pummeling them with your choice of irons or a pitching wedge. I'm more of a Muay Thai and Kenpo MMA kinda guy. Short pieces of wood beats (haha, beats) long pieces of metal. LOL.

Whoa. I'll tread carefully then.

I'm sturdy enough for any rational debate or convo, no matter how intense. I just return fire pretty quickly when someone draws down on me. Unfortunately, I thought you drew. I don't like unholstered theological weapons pointed my direction, especially Trinitarian ones (or Dispensational ones).

I'm not sure what you think the error is still. :idunno:

I'll have to outline it. As simple as it is, others have a buggar of a time grasping it, especially Trinitarians.

Amongst all the God-model adherents, there are three universally shared foundational misunderstandings, which is why each is formulated from its own aspect.

1 - None account for the true transcendence of God; and assign Him to have His inherent existence in the heavenly realm, which was created. Heaven is NOT uncreated. Only God Himself is uncreated. Both the heavenly realm and the earthly realm (natural universe) are created. ALL time-space-matter-energy is created ex nihilo by God's Logos and Pneuma. There is no eternity "past". Eternity had an inception. Only God is eternal is self-existence. Before creation, there was only God. No time, no heaven, no anything else. Only God alone is uncreated and eternal. After its inception, the heavenly realm is everlasting. (Otherwise, time and eternity are uncreated and are God. That's an eleveated form of Pantheism or PanEntheism/PanenTheism.)

2 - The Rhema and Logos of God are misunderstood, including their inseparability and the contrast between them. Expression has two components: Rhema and Logos. Rhema is the subject matter spoken about; the content of thought and expression. Logos is the intelligent wisdom, reason, ponderance, and ultimate outward conveyance OF the Rhema subject matter, whether spoken or written (if there is outward expression). IOW... There is both Rhema and Logos in silence, regardless of if/when there is outward expression. Rhema is WHAT is expressed. Logos is THAT the Rhema is wisely pondered, reasoned, and ultimately outwardly expressed. The common misconception is that Rhema is the spoken word and Logos is the written word.

(The above is largely per my late mentor, the preeminent native Greek scholar, Spiros Zodhiates.)

3 - The procession (exerchomai) of the Logos [John 8:42] and the procession (ekporeuomai) of the Holy Spirit [John 15:26].

This is probably why I tend to stay away from the theology threads.

And this was what I thought you meant as personally limited to my threads.

Shredder...

 

[bucksplasher]

Ha! Like... humiliating them with a mid-60s score on a PGA course? Or like... pummeling them with your choice of irons or a pitching wedge. I'm more of a Muay Thai and Kenpo MMA kinda guy. Short pieces of wood beats (haha, beats) long pieces of metal. LOL.



I'm sturdy enough for any rational debate or convo, no matter how intense. I just return fire pretty quickly when someone draws down on me. Unfortunately, I thought you drew. I don't like unholstered theological weapons pointed my direction, especially Trinitarian ones (or Dispensational ones).



I'll have to outline it. As simple as it is, others have a buggar of a time grasping it, especially Trinitarians.

Amongst all the God-model adherents, there are three universally shared foundational misunderstandings, which is why each is formulated from its own aspect.

1 - None account for the true transcendence of God; and assign Him to have His inherent existence in the heavenly realm, which was created. Heaven is NOT uncreated. Only God Himself is uncreated. Both the heavenly realm and the earthly realm (natural universe) are created. ALL time-space-matter-energy is created ex nihilo by God's Logos and Pneuma. There is no eternity "past". Eternity had an inception. Only God is eternal is self-existence. Before creation, there was only God. No time, no heaven, no anything else. Only God alone is uncreated and eternal. After its inception, the heavenly realm is everlasting. (Otherwise, time and eternity are uncreated and are God. That's an eleveated form of Pantheism or PanEntheism/PanenTheism.)

2 - The Rhema and Logos of God are misunderstood, including their inseparability and the contrast between them. Expression has two components: Rhema and Logos. Rhema is the subject matter spoken about; the content of thought and expression. Logos is the intelligent wisdom, reason, ponderance, and ultimate outward conveyance OF the Rhema subject matter, whether spoke or written (if there is outward expression). IOW... There is both Rhema and Logos in silence, regardless of if/when there is outward expression. Rhema is WHAT is spoken. Logos is THAT the Rhema is wisely pondered, reasoned, and ultimately outwardly expressed.

(This per my late mentor, the preeminent native Greek scholar, Spiros Zodhiates.)

3 - The procession (exerchomai) of the Logos [John 8:42] and the procession (ekporeuomai) of the Holy Spirit [John 15:26].



And this was what I thought you meant as personally limited to my threads.

Shredder...

So if I understand we have the "father" (humor me in definition) as the logos?

tWINs

tWINs

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

So if I understand we have the "father" (humor me in definition) as the logos?

tWINs

tWINs

Nope. That's ultimately some form of Modalism, however it's labeled (Monarchianism, Patripassianism, Sabellianism). Perhaps you should read (or reread for comprehension) my lengthy affirmation above.

The Father is not the Son (Logos) is not the Father (are not the Holy Spirit).

< What is tWINs? >

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Yeppers.

That's the "what". The "how" is the distinction. F/S/HS are not three hypostases (in one ousia).

What term would you rather use for "persons" or "being"?

I wouldn't simply substitute another term for either. It's the entire conceptual misunderstanding of 3 (hypostases) in 1 (ousia) that is erroneous.

God is a transcendent person(al subsistence) [hypostasis]. The Son is an immanent person [prosopon] as the Logos become flesh. Prosopon is the visible outward. Hypostasis is that which underlies. The Son is the visible of the invisible.

 

[bucksplasher]

Nope. That's ultimately some form of Modalism, however it's labeled (Monarchianism, Patripassianism, Sabellianism). Perhaps you should read (or reread for comprehension) my lengthy affirmation above.

The Father is not the Son (Logos) is not the Father (are not the Holy Spirit).

< What is tWINs? >

Ahhh a question I can answer. A Minnesota professional baseball team fallen on hard times. Also a play on words showing the twin camps in theory on TOL of Peter and Paul and finally to point out the "fact" that I personally am a WINer. tWINs

PS Do you believe Christ to be who I say (and I believe he claimed)he is, the Son of "God"?

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Ahhh a question I can answer. A Minnesota professional baseball team fallen on hard times. Also a play on words showing the twin camps in theory on TOL of Peter and Paul and finally to point out the "fact" that I personally am a WINer. tWINs

I thought it might be a reference to Minnesota MLB, but didn't know they actually had any fans. I keed, I keed.

PS Do you believe Christ to be who I say (and I believe he claimed)he is, the Son of "God"?

Probably not HOW you say it or specifically what you mean according to your doctrine, but... Of course. Jesus Christ is the Son of the one true and living God, YHWH. The Logos become flesh. God manifest in the likeness of sinful flesh. Theanthropos. Died. Rose again the third day. Conquered death. Visibly appeared. Ascended. Returning in like manner. Redeemer. God and Savior.

He's just not the second of three alleged "persons" in a purported Trinity.

 

[bucksplasher]

I thought it might be a reference to Minnesota MLB, but didn't know they actually had any fans. I keed, I keed.



Probably not HOW you say it or specifically what you mean according to your doctrine, but... Of course. Jesus Christ is the Son of the one true and living God, YHWH. The Logos become flesh. God manifest in the likeness of sinful flesh. Theanthropos. Died. Rose again the third day. Conquered death. Visibly appeared. Ascended. Returning in like manner. Redeemer. God and Savior.

He's just not the second of three alleged "persons" in a purported Trinity.

OK maybe not "freelight" but keypur and friends. You'll fit right in.

tWINs

PS Do you believe that we as humans have a trinity of personalities (for lack of better terminoligy) Mind, body and emotion (spirit)?

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

OK maybe not "freelight" but keypur and friends. You'll fit right in.

From my limited reading, isn't keypur an Arian? The Logos is uncreated and eternal. I won't deride an Arian, but I don't agree with them. They diverted because of the same foundational lack that gave us Trinity error.

PS Do you believe that we as humans have a trinity of personalities (for lack of better terminoligy) Mind, body and emotion (spirit)?

Man is spirit-soul-body. (1Thess. 5:23 / Heb. 4:12) The mind and emotions are soul faculties. Man is a singular person and (apart from diagnosed clinical dysfunction) has a singular personality.

Man is not three "persons" (prosopoa). God is not three "persons" (hypostases). Man is Tripartite, not Triune. Man is not a Trinity.

All "threeness" is not Trinity, nor does all "threeness" represent Trinity.

 

[StanJ53]

Welcome PPS

Were you on CARM under the same user name?

 

[bucksplasher]

From my limited reading, isn't keypur an Arian? The Logos is uncreated and eternal. I won't deride an Arian, but I don't agree with them. They diverted because of the same foundational lack that gave us Trinity error.



Man is spirit-soul-body. (1Thess. 5:23 / Heb. 4:12) The mind and emotions are soul faculties. Man is a singular person and (apart from diagnosed clinical dysfunction) has a singular personality.

Man is not three "persons" (prosopoa). God is not three "persons" (hypostases). Man is Tripartite, not Triune. Man is not a Trinity.

All "threeness" is not Trinity, nor does all "threeness" represent Trinity.

I'll take the tripartie but figure it's pretty close to the Trinity I understand as God. I'm sure we are made in the "image" of God. He might not have wanted to make us Gods. He made Angels that came too close to thinking that they were gods.

tWINs

PS I guess we have that "same" problem with humans who believe they are their own god.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Welcome PPS

Thanx.

Were you on CARM under the same user name?

Yes. Deleted my account there. We conversed a few times. You didn't like me much for refuting Trinity doctrine. Maybe conversation here will be less adversarial.

I see we've both been labeled as Libertarians for suggesting morality shouldn't necessarily be legislated.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

I'll take the tripartie but figure it's pretty close to the Trinity I understand as God. I'm sure we are made in the "image" of God. He might not have wanted to make us Gods. He made Angels that came too close to thinking that they were gods.

You're definitely onto something. We ARE in the image of God. We're Tripartite. (Spirit-soul-body as one person is not three persons, so the difference is pretty substantial.)

PS I guess we have that "same" problem with humans who believe they are their own god.

Yep. Man is not divine, does not ascend to become divine, nor to reclaim divinity. That's the Edenic lie of the serpent underlying everything else in culture and religion; and it has subtly permeated the sectarian church via the Word of Faith movement. We are NOT divinity and dust. Through salvific faith by grace, we become partakers of HIS divine nature because of the great love wherewith He hath loved us.

All views of man being/becoming divinity are from the Edenic lie... "Ye shall be as gods...". I'm content to be a joint heir with Jesus Christ of an inheritance that is not inherently mine. In obedience with gratitude and humility, I accept eternal life that I don't deserve, can't earn, and which prevent the death I DO deserve for my sin.

 

[Doormat]

All views of man being/becoming divinity are from the Edenic lie... "Ye shall be as gods...".

You don't understand the "Edenic lie."

 

[StanJ53]

Thanx.



Yes. Deleted my account there. We conversed a few times. You didn't like me much for refuting Trinity doctrine. Maybe conversation here will be less adversarial.

I see we've both been labeled as Libertarians for suggesting morality shouldn't necessarily be legislated.

Well it's not that I don't like people because of their views. I have a hard time with people who don't acknowledge clear scripture or equivocate on it. There was a chap there I didn't much like for that reason but I can't remember his user name. There is one chap here I am combative with for the same reasons. I did recognize your user name but can't really recall your personality. I'm sure we'll get reacquainted.

Yes I have been labelled a Liberal, but only because most Americans cannot delineate between their political ideologies and their Christian ones.

I won't start debating you on your welcome OP. Will look for you out on the Forums.

Again welcome.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

You don't understand the "Edenic lie."

We can converse about the topic. Proceed if you will.

Remind me of your position on Theology Proper. Unitarian? Arian? I'm still orienting myself to what others' views are.