ECT Name a church unlike the one spoken of here . . .

[Cross Reference]

This has been my persuasion for years:


http://www.vergenetwork.org/2012/04...us-in-your-heart-is-superstitious-unbiblical/

 

[revpete]

This has been my persuasion for years:


http://www.vergenetwork.org/2012/04...us-in-your-heart-is-superstitious-unbiblical/

In the way that bro Platt puts it he is of course correct. However, in a real conversion experience our bodies do become the temples of The Holy Spirit. I believe this asking Jesus into the heart, unbiblical though it be, is nothing more than a descriptive term (a very inadequate one at that) for what happens at conversion. The words trinity and millennium also do not appear in scripture but are again descriptive terms.

Unbiblical, yes. Superstitious, a strong term but, at a stretch yes. Does it do real harm? I believe in some cases it could but not in every case.

Thanks CR, very thought provoking.

Pete

 

[Cross Reference]

In the way that bro Platt puts it he is of course correct. However, in a real conversion experience our bodies do become the temples of The Holy Spirit. I believe this asking Jesus into the heart, unbiblical though it be, is nothing more than a descriptive term (a very inadequate one at that) for what happens at conversion. The words trinity and millennium also do not appear in scripture but are again descriptive terms.

Unbiblical, yes. Superstitious, a strong term but, at a stretch yes. Does it do real harm? I believe in some cases it could but not in every case.

Thanks CR, very thought provoking.

Pete ��

Keep on mind Pete, I make a distinction between one being saved and one being born again. While the one wants Jesus but also wants to retain his worldly life style. Righteous as he might deem himself to be, scarcely he might be saved per 1 Pet 1:18. Obviously he would not be one who is "one of His". The other who presses on to know God as one who has counted the cost to be chosen for the new birth from above. My experience is that the former is of todays church mentality which, I believe has prompted Pratt's sessions on this.

Thanks Bro.

 

[musterion]

Should it not concern us that there is no such supertitious prayer in the New Testament? Should it not concern us that the Bible never uses the phrase ‘accept Jesus into your heart’?

Yes, it should. It is unbiblical and misleading.

Now if you only believed the Gospel of the grace of God.

 

[revpete]

Keep on mind Pete, I make a distinction between one being saved and one being born again. While the one wants Jesus but also wants to retain his worldly life style. Righteous as he might deem himself to be, scarcely he might be saved per 1 Pet 1:18. Obviously he would not be one who is "one of His". The other who presses on to know God as one who has counted the cost to be chosen for the new birth from above. My experience is that the former is of todays church mentality which, I believe has prompted Pratt's sessions on this.

Thanks Bro.

I'm not sure why you cited 1Pete. 1:18.

I think there is no difference between being born again Jn. 3:3 and being saved Acts. 16:31. Both mean converted. I believe scripture teaches that if one WANTS to hang on to the old lifestyle no genuine work of salvation has taken place. However, if one has difficulty but wants to leave the old lifestyle behind, then sanctification comes into the equation. In other words, one is a tare and the other genuine wheat. As John teaches: 1Jn. 2:19.

Pete

 

[Cross Reference]

I'm not sure why you cited 1Pete. 1:18.

I think there is no difference between being born again Jn. 3:3 and being saved Acts. 16:31. Both mean converted. I believe scripture teaches that if one WANTS to hang on to the old lifestyle no genuine work of salvation has taken place. However, if one has difficulty but wants to leave the old lifestyle behind, then sanctification comes into the equation. In other words, one is a tare and the other genuine wheat. As John teaches: 1Jn. 2:19.

Pete ��

Can you say every saved brother you know is a disciple of Christ?

Why assume the Jailer was born again? Do you think he knew enough that he counted the cost?

When were the 11 saved? Born again?

 

[revpete]

Can you say every saved brother you know is a disciple of Christ?

Why assume the Jailer was born again? Do you think he knew enough that he counted the cost?

When were the 11 saved? Born again?

Every one who is SAVED and has not just made an empty profession of faith is a disciple in my experience. I know what you're getting at though.

What you said about the jailer could also be said of the Ethiopian eunuch and the three thousand on the day of Pentecost. If we start questioning scripture when the context is clear we go down a road that could lead to error and worse.

The eleven were born again or received new life and power from on high on the day of Pentecost. That is open to debate though.

Pete

 

[Cross Reference]

Every one who is SAVED and has not just made an empty profession of faith is a disciple in my experience. I know what you're getting at though.

Then evidence must follow. We cannot merely assume especially when those very people, both in your experience and mine, live presumptuously believing for what they have not succeeded in attaining. There is a price to pay for discipleship. The Scriptures speak of it as being complete abandonment of one's restored spirit to God and that by the new birth from above.

What you said about the jailer could also be said of the Ethiopian eunuch and the three thousand on the day of Pentecost.

Perhaps but, not if you recall Jesus saying [in context] He did not come to save the righteous but to redeem them. He came to call sinners to repentance.

If we start questioning scripture when the context is clear we go down a road that could lead to error and worse.

What is worse in my estimate, is to continue in error and miss out on God's ultimate intention for having created man.

The eleven were born again or received new life and power from on high on the day of Pentecost. That is open to debate though.

Indeed, it is. Review to understand that when the 12 were born again, they had already been saved by the shed blood of Jesus. The cross for redemption was over and they had been with Jesus for 3+ years that had established their faith in Him. So we can say that by their faith in Him and His legal act of redemption, their salvation was made complete. Advancing to John 20:22 now makes sense. Now, Jesus says, "Don't leave Jerusalem without the unction to function"__ ". . . I (will) send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high." Luke 24:49 (KJV)

 

[Totton Linnet]

The inner Christ life is the crux and core of our faith...the problem is not in asking for Him so to dwell but in believing that He does. When He comes He does not need to be trained, or taught how to be holy...He just needs to LIVE in us.

Platt would not look out of place in some kind of uniform....don't you ever tire of these unproductive harangues

 

[Totton Linnet]

To say that soul winning is an overflow of some kind is not scripture either

 

[Cross Reference]

To say that soul winning is an overflow of some kind is not scripture either

Of course it is. That is how Jesus did it.

 

[turbosixx]

This has been my persuasion for years:


http://www.vergenetwork.org/2012/04...us-in-your-heart-is-superstitious-unbiblical/

I agree to a large extent. I don’t understand why people use phrases that cannot be found in scripture. If the words are changed, then there is a very very high probability that the meaning is changed. Why change the words.

Jesus told the apostles how to make disciples and the apostles did that very thing. Why has it changed?

 

[Cross Reference]

The inner Christ life is the crux and core of our faith...the problem is not in asking for Him so to dwell but in believing that He does. When He comes He does not need to be trained, or taught how to be holy...He just needs to LIVE in us.

Platt would not look out of place in some kind of uniform....don't you ever tire of these unproductive harrangues

Don't you ever tire of being wrong, to ask rather than declaring yourself to yourself that you are correct when the opposite is more true than not?

 

[Totton Linnet]

Salvation is an overflow of pardon, sanctification and LIFE from the cross....The best thing Oswald Cambers could do was to bring folks to the cross.


I'm not saying he didn't.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Don't you ever tire of being wrong, to ask rather than declaring yourself to yourself that you are correct when the opposite is more true than not?

It's a con

Why don't these holiness folks say "I am like Paul" why don't they stand up and say "I have attained a high degree of sanctification"

Their message is always "brethren we must be thus and so..."

....the fact is they never do attain it, they just want to harangue and flog everyone else

 

[Cross Reference]

I agree to a large extent. I don’t understand why people use phrases that cannot be found in scripture. If the words are changed, then there is a very very high probability that the meaning is changed. Why change the words.

Jesus told the apostles how to make disciples and the apostles did that very thing. Why has it changed?

Churches with religious agenda, built on unbelief.

For instance, "Come to Jesus and He will change your life", only to find out your life never changes. The religious agenda ridden church's approach is to to get one more involved in church activities until rigamortus. [sp?] sets in and the whole thing becomes a "White Knuckle Club" where one hangs on until he dies.

 

[Cross Reference]

Salvation is an overflow of pardon, sanctification and LIFE from the cross....The best thing Oswald Cambers could do was to bring folks to the cross.


I'm not saying he didn't.

Then why say anything at all??

 

[turbosixx]

Churches with religious agenda, built on unbelief.

For instance, "Come to Jesus and He will change your life", only to find out your life never changes. The religious agenda ridden church's approach is to to get one more involved in church activities until rigamortus. [sp?] sets in and the whole thing becomes a "White Knuckle Club" where one hangs on until he dies.

I see that too. I also have to believe it's a scheme of the devil. He's going to use every trick he can to change the truth. Just like in the garden, God said you will die and the devil said you will not die.

 

[revpete]

What is worse in my estimate, is to continue in error and miss out on God's ultimate intention for having created man.

Hhhh


Indeed, it is. Review to understand that when the 12 were born again, they had already been saved by the shed blood of Jesus. The cross for redemption was over and they had been with Jesus for 3+ years that had established their faith in Him. So we can say that by their faith in Him and His legal act of redemption, their salvation was made complete. Advancing to John 20:22 now makes sense. Now, Jesus says, "Don't leave Jerusalem without the unction to function"__ ". . . I (will) send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high." Luke 24:49 (KJV)

 

[revpete]

What is worse in my estimate, is to continue in error and miss out on God's ultimate intention for having created man.



Indeed, it is. Review to understand that when the 12 were born again, they had already been saved by the shed blood of Jesus. The cross for redemption was over and they had been with Jesus for 3+ years that had established their faith in Him. So we can say that by their faith in Him and His legal act of redemption, their salvation was made complete. Advancing to John 20:22 now makes sense. Now, Jesus says, "Don't leave Jerusalem without the unction to function"__ ". . . I (will) send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high." Luke 24:49 (KJV)

I suppose it's down to the individual. If one is truly born again and is undergoing sanctification by The Holy Spirit then one will not miss out on God's best for them.

We cannot live another's life for them. Yes, error must be addressed and corrected but we must all work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.

Pete