Mr. Religion and His Calvinistic Nonsense

[Jerry Shugart]

On another thread Mr. Religion said the following:

Faith is evidence you are saved, it is not the cause of your salvation, for God alone is the cause.

Here is what I said in response and so far he hasn't responded:

Paul and those with him certainly saw a "cause and effect" relationship between "faith" and "salvation," as witnessed by how they answered this question:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).​

Do you not see that "believing" results in "salvation," that it is "faith" which brings about "salvation"? Here Paul again speaks of a "cause and effect" relationship between "believing" and "salvation":

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).​

Do you really not see a "cause and effect" relationship between "faith" and "salvation"?​

Just today I received the following response from another person on another thread:

You asked me if I want to argue whether a person can be saved prior to believing. I answered Yes.

Are there any Calvinists out there who would like to defend what Mr. Religion said or what Samie said?

Thanks!

 

[6days]

Let's rejoice with others who have recieved the gift of 'sight'. Like the blind man said, he didn't understand exactly how or why he could now see -He just knew that he could.

 

[Robert Pate]

Calvinism is anti-faith, anti-Gospel, anti-Christ and anti-God.

It has got to be the worst doctrine ever conceived by the depraved mind of man.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

On another thread Mr. Religion said the following:



Here is what I said in response and so far he hasn't responded:

Paul and those with him certainly saw a "cause and effect" relationship between "faith" and "salvation," as witnessed by how they answered this question:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).​

Do you not see that "believing" results in "salvation," that it is "faith" which brings about "salvation"? Here Paul again speaks of a "cause and effect" relationship between "believing" and "salvation":

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).​

Do you really not see a "cause and effect" relationship between "faith" and "salvation"?​

Just today I received the following response from another person on another thread:



Are there any Calvinists out there who would like to defend what Mr. Religion said or what Samie said?

Thanks!

Found a gem of a quote from Charles Spurgeon on this matter... Please tell me if you see the ill in it.

“Among all those who have been born of women, there has not risen a greater than John Calvin; no age, before him ever produced his equal, and no age afterwards has seen his rival. In theology, he stands alone, shining like a bright fixed star, while other leaders and teachers can only circle round him, at a great distance — as comets go streaming through space — with nothing like his glory or his permanence” . . . “the longer I live the clearer does it appear that John Calvin’s system is the nearest to perfection.”
~ Charles Spurgeon

 

[beloved57]

On another thread Mr. Religion said the following:



Here is what I said in response and so far he hasn't responded:

Paul and those with him certainly saw a "cause and effect" relationship between "faith" and "salvation," as witnessed by how they answered this question:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).​

Do you not see that "believing" results in "salvation," that it is "faith" which brings about "salvation"? Here Paul again speaks of a "cause and effect" relationship between "believing" and "salvation":

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).​

Do you really not see a "cause and effect" relationship between "faith" and "salvation"?​

Just today I received the following response from another person on another thread:



Are there any Calvinists out there who would like to defend what Mr. Religion said or what Samie said?

Thanks!

One can't believe until they are saved. Those in the flesh can't please God Rom 8:8, and the Gospel is hidden to them that are lost 2 Cor 4:3. As long as a person is in a lost state, the Gospel is hidden from them, and they believe not!

 

[Nihilo]

Found a gem of a quote from Charles Spurgeon on this matter... Please tell me if you see the ill in it.

“Among all those who have been born of women, there has not risen a greater than John Calvin; no age, before him ever produced his equal, and no age afterwards has seen his rival. In theology, he stands alone, shining like a bright fixed star, while other leaders and teachers can only circle round him, at a great distance — as comets go streaming through space — with nothing like his glory or his permanence” . . . “the longer I live the clearer does it appear that John Calvin’s system is the nearest to perfection.”
~ Charles Spurgeon

John Calvin never defends the Trinity, upon which his whole theology is built in his Institutes. There, the Trinity is presumed. The only way to successfully and indomitably defend the Trinity is to invoke the Catholic Church, because she and only she has believed in and taught the Trinity from the earliest. So if Calvin did defend the Trinity, then he would have to admit that his theology ultimately begs, borrows and steals from, and so is ultimately constructed upon Holy Catholicism. Therefore he could not be used to justify any ecclesial community that was not a Catholic parish.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Found a gem of a quote from Charles Spurgeon on this matter... Please tell me if you see the ill in it.

Among those born of woman there has certainly been One greater than John Calvin, and that One is the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The only way to successfully and indomitably defend the Trinity is to invoke the Catholic Church, because she and only she has believed in and taught the Trinity from the earliest.

The best way to defend the Trinity is by quoting from the word of God, not by quoting what some men say about the Trinity.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Among those born of woman there has certainly been One greater than John Calvin, and that One is the Lord Jesus Christ.

Amen!

 

[Nihilo]

The best way to defend the Trinity is by quoting from the word of God, not by quoting what some men say about the Trinity.

It's both, especially in the latter case, when those men are Churchmen, who met the Apostles, and those who were consecrated bishops by the Apostles, and by those who were consecrated bishops, through the imposition of hands, by the Apostles. When these men wrote about the Trinity, and the New Testament teaches the Trinity, then we can and do know for a surety the truth of the Trinity; that He is God.

 

[6days]

The only way to successfully and indomitably defend the Trinity is to invoke the Catholic Church, because she and only she has believed in and taught the Trinity from the earliest.

God's Word existed long before the Catholic church.*

 

[Nihilo]

God's Word existed long before the Catholic church.*

I'm talking about the Christian Bible, which was completed within the Apostles' lifetimes. It is within this same time period that the One Church first made her appearance, as is recorded in that same Christian Bible.

 

[6days]

I'm not sure of what you are saying, but the point I attempted to make is....
The belief in the trinity comes from scripture...not from a church.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

It's both, especially in the latter case, when those men are Churchmen, who met the Apostles, and those who were consecrated bishops by the Apostles, and by those who were consecrated bishops, through the imposition of hands, by the Apostles. When these men wrote about the Trinity, and the New Testament teaches the Trinity, then we can and do know for a surety the truth of the Trinity; that He is God.

Men can be wrong but not the word of God and it is there where I place my faith:

"And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God" (1 Cor.2:4-5).​

 

[Crucible]

Anti-Calvinists make fictions of scripture which in no way take into account the inner condition of mankind.

What exactly does 'faith' and 'righteousness' mean to an anti-Calvinist?

Because as far as I can tell, they simply treat faith like a charm you keep in your pocket, and righteousness a frivolous thing that just magically pulsates from the person carrying it.

It's like a bastardization of Imputed Righteousness.

 

[Nihilo]

I'm not sure of what you are saying, but the point I attempted to make is....
The belief in the trinity comes from scripture...not from a church.

The Church in Scripture is not "a church," she is the Church, and she did survive the Apostles and the period in which the New Testament was written. Before the idea that there could be more than One Church ever entered anybody's head, there was One Church, as shown in the Scripture.

And yes, the Trinity is taught and presumed in the Scripture; there, we certainly agree.

 

[Nihilo]

Men can be wrong but not the word of God and it is there where I place my faith

Then believe what He says. He says there is One Church.

 

[zzub]

Anti-Calvinists make fictions of scripture which in no way take into account the inner condition of mankind.

Anti_Calvinists are Biblicists. That is they read the Bible. The complete Bible and nothing but the Bible. Not so with Calvinists who read a half dozen scriptures and the works of dead men.

 

[Crucible]

Anti_Calvinists are Biblicists. That is they read the Bible. The complete Bible and nothing but the Bible. Not so with Calvinists who read a half dozen scriptures and the works of dead men.

They read the Bible, alright. They just don't comprehend it :wave2:

So, so much for that dumb, overly cliched sentiment you just made.

 

[zzub]

Oh dear, another one predestined to be upset.