ECT Matthew 24:3ff is spoken to the very elect of God

[Cross Reference]

. . . . that they might understand to be continually on guard by having a "sustaining" message within them that they be not deceived and led astray to perdition:

Beginning at Vs 3 where prophecy given His Disciples shifts from explaining the near future to explaining the end times we presently find ourselves:

"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand):
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Behold, I have told you before.
Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Then shall *two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. [*both Christians]
Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 24:3-51 (KJV)

 

[tetelestai]

Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Judaea was a Roman Province in the first century.

There hasn't been a Judaea since, and there isn't going to be a Roman Province called Judaea in the future.

The prophecy only pertained to Jewish Christians who lived in Judaea, around Judaea, and traveled to Judaea.

(Luke 21:21) Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.

How do you presently find yourself in a prophecy written specifically to people who lived in the Roman Province of Judaea and Jerusalem.

 

[Cross Reference]

Judaea was a Roman Province in the first century.

There hasn't been a Judaea since, and there isn't going to be a Roman Province called Judaea in the future.

The prophecy only pertained to Jewish Christians who lived in Judaea, around Judaea, and traveled to Judaea.

(Luke 21:21) Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.

How do you presently find yourself in a prophecy written specifically to people who lived in the Roman Province of Judaea and Jerusalem.

I wrote what I wrote. Think as you will.

 

[Interplanner]

CRef,
But if you are going to go at this properly, you have to establish certain things. Mt 21-23 are building a case as to why it's over, as far as Israel the state goes. It's tragic, but that's what's happening. The parable of the vineyard, the parable of the dissed wedding host, and ch23's 'your house is desolate' all set up the questions. The disciples are in disbelief, asking mistaken questions.

You also have to establish what the end is. Here are some options:
the end of the temple
the end of the old covenant
the end of the state
the end of Judaism
the end of Jerusalem
the end of the 490 years

There is no point in discussing these things unless you are willing to recalibrate where needed.

 

[Cross Reference]

CRef,
But if you are going to go at this properly, you have to establish certain things. Mt 21-23 are building a case as to why it's over, as far as Israel the state goes. It's tragic, but that's what's happening. The parable of the vineyard, the parable of the dissed wedding host, and ch23's 'your house is desolate' all set up the questions. The disciples are in disbelief, asking mistaken questions.

You also have to establish what the end is. Here are some options:
the end of the temple
the end of the old covenant
the end of the state
the end of Judaism
the end of Jerusalem
the end of the 490 years

There is no point in discussing these things unless you are willing to recalibrate where needed.

Since all scripture is given for us to spiritually apply to ourselves re our relationship with God and Christ, using Israel as the example set before us whereby we might profit by their error, it would be wise to first let the scriptures say what they say. The specifics will take care of the themselves if we allow introspection have its way...In this, one profits not-at-all by what you suppose to be a necessity for understanding. What is a necessity is this:

"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" 2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV)

 

[tetelestai]

I wrote what I wrote.

Yes, and the scripture you used to allegedly back your claim is specifically addressed to those who live in and near the Roman Province of Judaea.

Think as you will.

Unless you can explain how warnings specific to Christian Jews living in and near the Roman Province of Judaea in the first century applies to you 2,000 years later, I think you are wrong.

 

[Cross Reference]

Yes, and the scripture you used to allegedly back your claim is specifically addressed to those who live in and near the Roman Province of Judaea.



Unless you can explain how warnings specific to Christian Jews living in and near the Roman Province of Judaea in the first century applies to you 2,000 years later, I think you are wrong.

That is unfortunate but, not for me. To reply to what you think and presume will only bring about a great rabbit chase that will end nowhere.

Try this: Read Ezek. 7. Compare it with what we presently see in this day, in our land and the world at large and then speak of how important is it "I get it right".

 

[tetelestai]

That is unfortunate but, not for me.

Then you are not honest about the Judaea part.

Here is another verse you provided to allegedly back your claim:

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand):

For this prophecy to be fulfilled there has to be a Temple.

There hasn't been a Temple since 70AD.

So, how the heck does that verse apply to you today when there is no Temple?

 

[Cross Reference]

Then you are not honest about the Judaea part.

Here is another verse you provided to allegedly back your claim:



For this prophecy to be fulfilled there has to be a Temple.

There hasn't been a Temple since 70AD.

So, how the heck does that verse apply to you today when there is no Temple?

Are we to assume there will never again be a temple built on the mount? I know a few Jews who would argue to the contrary?

BTW you didn't address Ezek. 7 prophecy as it pertained to Israel and, apparently and at least, to the USA..

 

[Nick M]

Matthew 24:3ff is spoken to the very elect of God

Whom did God choose (elect) and why? What did he choose them for?

 

[Nick M]

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. 15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),

34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

Yet that generation did pass without those things taking place. I highlighted the important things you [/strike]miss[/strike] manipulate.

 

[Cross Reference]

Whom did God choose (elect) and why? What did he choose them for?

Who? Those He foreknew.

Why?? He saw Himself [possibilities here] in them.

What for? For them to become as He is.

 

[Cross Reference]

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. 15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),

34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

Yet that generation did pass without those things taking place. I highlighted the important things you [/strike]miss[/strike] manipulate.

So what part do you believe I missed or didn't get right, in your estimation, of course? Or perhaps you have your own ideas that you would like to "manipulate"?

 

[tetelestai]

Yet that generation did pass without those things taking place.

Nope

Those things did take place before that generation passed away.

Everything took place exactly as Jesus said it would before that generation passed away.

 

[Cross Reference]

Nope

Those things did take place before that generation passed away.

Everything took place exactly as Jesus said it would before that generation passed away.

Nation against nation? Kingdom against kingdom? Perhaps you can explain who they are that Jesus would say such a thing that should be looked for to happen __ in that generation?

That's just for starters.

 

[Danoh]

Nation against nation? Kingdom against kingdom? Perhaps you can explain who they are that Jesus would say such a thing that should be looked for to happen __ in that generation?

That's just for starters.

Teltelestai and a few of his on here, assert that Jesus returned in 70AD as the Roman Empire's military against Jerusalem.

Their entire school is this mess of "this was literal, therefore, this here was a figure of speech."

Ask any of them to lay out Zachariah 14, for example; see for yourself the level of "understanding" you are dealing with in him and his.

-------

Nick, great posts; as usual.

 

[Interplanner]

Knock it off Danoh. I'm not Tetelestai; I speak for myself.

The litmus test of theology is not what a person does with Zech 14. There are too many references to it by the NT for that.

NT eschatology does not mix 1st century Judea with the distant future worldwide day of judgement. Mixes are messes. Originally (moving through the material in its own history) yes, the worldwide day was expected right after, 24:29. But there was also an allowance. If there was no allowance, there was no reason for 2 Pet 3 to explain anything.

 

[Danoh]

Knock it off Danoh. I'm not Tetelestai; I speak for myself.

The litmus test of theology is not what a person does with Zech 14. There are too many references to it by the NT for that.

NT eschatology does not mix 1st century Judea with the distant future worldwide day of judgement. Mixes are messes. Originally (moving through the material in its own history) yes, the worldwide day was expected right after, 24:29. But there was also an allowance. If there was no allowance, there was no reason for 2 Pet 3 to explain anything.

Lay out Zech. 14; lets see if you speak for your self or Stout; as does Teltelestai.

 

[tetelestai]

Lay out Zech. 14; lets see if you speak for your self or Stout; as does Teltelestai.

Zech 14 was fulfilled in Christ Jesus.

Example:

The Prophecy:

(Zech 14:8 KJV) And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

The fulfillment in Christ Jesus:

(John 7:38 KJV) He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Christ Jesus fulfilled the Law and Prophets.

Give up being a follower of John Nelson Darby, and place your trust in Christ Jesus.

 

[Interplanner]

Stout? Do you mean Stott?

But in rereading what I said, it would have been better to notice that all of the late parts of Zech are quoted a lot by the NT and stick to those patterns.

Futurists do tend to hang everything on Ezek 38-9 and Zech 14 and Ps 83, instead of like the apostles: Ps 2, 16, 110.