ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
God allowed satan to test him
Man's Nature vs Man's condition"?
- Thread starter bybee
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God allowed satan to test him
If man had freewill as you claim would he have not said "ok God you have said I may not eat of this tree lest I die.....but I WILL eat of it and I shall NOT die"
In fact that is what the devil tricked him into believing, that he had freewill to say this very thing....freewill doctrine is therefore
The deception perpetrated upon man.
Believing he may sin and not be held to account....all sin comes from this deception.
To say obey and live or disobey and perish is not anybody's idea of freewill...in a human it would be tyranny but not in God because God's will for every one of us is PERFECT....
whitestone
Well-known member
Eve was never in the earth where Adam was made until after she was beguiled. He was made in the earth, Genesis 2:8 KJV . and then put in the garden,then she was taken out of Adam (while in the garden), Genesis 2:22 KJV . Where were the two trees and where were they made?
nikolai_42
Well-known member
Why wouldn't he? Men are wicked (Jer 17:9). Their wicked hearts tempt them to sin (Mk 7:21-22). God's heart is not wicked (Hab 1:13). When you sin--it's your fault not God's.lain: The blame game ain't gonna fly at the Great White Throne. :burnlib:
He'll provide a way out. Better take it. :Shimei: Ge 39:12 NET
He does. :juggle: I recommend passing tests of faith. :king:
The question of blame is not the issue here (and agreed that there is no "out" in laying anything on The Great Avenger), but in reasoning through the matter, can it be fairly and accurately said that God can indeed lead us into temptation?
Yes but Job is peculiar among the sons of men, he was perfect. Apart from Christ nobody else is. So you cain't define a doctrine from Job...if YOU were perfect I mean actually as well as positionally then perhaps God would allow you to be tested.
No God did not...but Adam who was Eve's head apparently did.
If the bible recorded every aspect of every event the story of Adam and Eve alone would be a bible in itself.
Don't you think there was a war going on? people will say God lost the war, but the war is not over yet.....
And being a feminist, he listened to his wife instead of God.
Yes but to partake of the tree of knowledge was sin, to say God placed it there to test [tempt] man is to say God tempted man to sin.
God has no need to test or to tempt man HE KNOWS that yes he will sin.
Why then is the tree there? it just is, it is part of creation and fundamentally essential to creation.
Just as the electric box is essential to power and we tell the kids to leave it alone.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
And Job attributed the evil that befell him as being from God's own hand...
Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.
But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
Job 2:9-10
This is one thing I could make a doctrine out of...considering that Job is attributing calamity to God. Jesus warns the Pharisees about the unforgivable sin :
But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Matthew 12:24-32
Job never curses God - he curses nearly everything else (including the day of his birth) but never God. Yet he accepts all things as being from Him. And because he trusts God, he can endure those things. He isn't perfect (and ends up repenting in dust and ashes for his wrong ideas about the Almighty), but he perseveres.
Here, I think, is the line between bitterness and humility. Bitterness rails but humility submits. Note that Job could - without sin - charge God with bringing the disasters upon him. This could be considered a word against God. It often is today. People suffer serious blows but don't want to impugn God's character (or so they think) by involving Him in those things. It may even be that here is pride ("God would never do that to me!"). But in the end...and Job witnesses to the fact that this end doesn't always come quickly in these situations...in the end it is MORE of a comfort of soul and praise to God to believe He was in the tragedy. The thing is, only some who truly trusts God can see and understand that and honestly confess it. God is not offended by us laying these events at His feet, but the spirit in which it is done makes every difference in the world.
whitestone
Well-known member
where they actually were is the key,,,
Genesis 3:22-24 KJV is where he put Adam after he made him and where he was when Eve was made. Paul speaks of it in 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 KJV and calls it "paradise,third heaven",,,Jesus tells the thief they would be there Luke 23:43 KJV . And it is the same in Revelation 2:7 KJV
Genesis 3:22-24 KJV is where he put Adam after he made him and where he was when Eve was made. Paul speaks of it in 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 KJV and calls it "paradise,third heaven",,,Jesus tells the thief they would be there Luke 23:43 KJV . And it is the same in Revelation 2:7 KJV
We do not comprehend God's ways as He works out His purpose.
I believe the ability to discern between what is acceptable and what is not acceptable is within us. To choose to do the acceptable thing is what gives it meaning.
Without our "Mediator and Advocate" we should all be quite unacceptable.
genuineoriginal
New member
The idea that the "original sin" of Adam resulted in everyone after him being born with a "sinful" nature is a false doctrine.
Each and every one of us has the same nature as Adam and the same freewill as Adam.
Here is the curse that came upon Adam:
Genesis 3:17-19 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. |
Passing a "sinful" nature on to his descendants is not part of the curse.
You apparently believe that because of man's sinful nature that God has abandoned him.
Everyone has a personal responsibility to repent and trust in Christ as their savior. To say that it is not possible for them to do this is a lie.
Romans 1:20.
genuineoriginal
New member
The test of free will is called the trial of your faith in the KJV.
1 Peter 1:7 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: |
whitestone
Well-known member
your welcome,,,
I most assuredly do not believe such a thing!
You have made a giant leap into a faulty conclusion.
That's right. We are accountable to him. Those who refuse his lordship will learn one day that they are not; in fact, God.
opcorn:
Great post
It is a tricky one...but none of Job's woes came from God but from Satan, how did God permit it? by removing the hedge He had around Job
God has a hedge about ALL of us. It is never wrong to enquire of God, indeed I think we should enquire if we perceive that God has taken His hedge from around about us.
When God removed the hedge Satan was able to smite Job.
But before folks say they have the sufferings of Job I would ask them if they were perfect, it was God's boast about Job's perfection that set him up.
Job is the greatest health and wealth preacher in the bible...after his testimony was brought out he healed and wealed DOUBLE.
God is good
Satan is evil
God does GOOD things
Satan does evil
evil is not good
good is not evil
bitter is not sweet
and sweet is not bitter.
The thief cometh not but for to steal and to kill and destroy you but I AM come that ye might have life and that ye might have it more abundantly.