Justification of Eternal Punishment

[Timotheos]

What makes it obvious to you when Jesus gives names of those involved?? This is the only time He does so which makes it an account of what actually took place and NOT a parable.

The human soul CANNOT die. Therefore the words "death" or "perish" are to be taken as being eternally separated from God Who alone IS LIFE. "Death" and "Perish" will be cast into the lake of fire which CANNOT be extinguished. Look it up and read without putting you twist on it.

Read the rest of your Bible in the LIGHT.

Names do not change a parable into a non parable. This parable has a name. Look up the definition of parable.

It is simply not true that a soul cannot die. Haven't you read in Ezekiel 18 that the soul who sins Shall die??? Or when Jesus said fear the one who can destroy the soul???

The doctrine that the soul can't die originated with Satan in Eden. Remember when he claimed "surely you will not die"? We are Christians not Satanists.

 

[Cross Reference]

Names do not change a parable into a non parable. This parable has a name. Look up the definition of parable.

It's not a parable to start out with!

It is simply not true that a soul cannot die. Haven't you read in Ezekiel 18 that the soul who sins Shall die??? Or when Jesus said fear the one who can destroy the soul???

Is it the soul that sins a lot or just a little? Is not sin as leprosy in that things just get worse between us and God if we continue in it until absolute separation from LIFE happens? Surely you have been around long enough to have witnessed the walking dead 'living' amongst us?

The doctrine that the soul can't die originated with Satan in Eden.

No it didn't, the lie was perpetrated by Satan in Eden.

Remember when he claimed "surely you will not die"? We are Christians not Satanists.

That was the lie! We did die insofar as the meaning of being separated from God and the immediate action of decay set in motion can be understood as being the death God warned of. However, our soul cannot die in the 'spiritual biological' sense of it all. We were created in the "image of God", In His likeness and image given to our inward and outward appearance, intended to be perfected in Him, was reason for our coming into existence . We were created to live forever. That is why salvation is so important with being born again as something more to do with intimacy with God and Jesus Christ per John 17:3 KJV.

 

[way 2 go]

Cross Reference

they , rosen & tim deny everything you just wrote

they read the bible like atheists.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Its recently hit me as well that eternal torture is wrong. One good reason is we never signed up to be born on this planet. The gift of life is a great gift and I wouldnt want to seem unthankful to god for it but never being born would have been merciful if such a place existed. in fact as a christian for 35 yrs and a avid bible reader id have to say though I claimed belief in hell and even preached it at times I must have never belived it cause I had four children. I would have never reproduced if I really belived it.

The good news is that one can still be a Christian and not believe in that insidious doctrine...

Good points.

 

[Arthur Brain]

How selfish a comment from an obviously unlearned individual.

How the heck is it selfish? He's actually being anything but if you could read yourself. If you sincerely thought that some eternal place of torment could await a being born into the world then how loving or responsible would it be to risk that? I wonder if folk like you even contemplate just what your doctrine dictates. The next time you stand on a nail, stub your toe or whatever then once you've stopped cussing and the pain subsides then consider that you promote something that constantly and endlessly goes on. Once you've not managed to comprehend that then you might come close to approaching a clue...

Although sadly, probably not.

 

[way 2 go]

The truth matters.

not to you

A person has to put John 3:16 on it's head to believe that Nobody ever perishes an everyone has eternal life either in heaven or hell, along with a lot of other passages.

no.

my theology lines up perfectly with what Jesus
teaches here
Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

consciousness of the departed,
fire for the unrepentant to stand in,

Timotheos you do not believe this.

You have to explain away verses that clearly state that the wicked will be destroyed, ignore others completely, and cherry pick 3 verses and then explain away the difficulties in those as well.

no

The parable of Lazarus is obviously a parable, and even so it never once says the torment is eternal.
Eternal Destruction IS eternal punishment whether or not ECTists believe that.

the story of Abraham Lazarus and the rich man is
historically accurate
and in agreement with Moses and the prophets
and Jesus
Mat 25:46**And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

What the Bible says is true, not the ECTist twist.
The truth matters, even when a person stubbornly refuses to see it.

Luk 16:19-31
Jesus reveals
already known truths such as
consciousness of the departed,
fire for the unrepentant to stand in,
a protected place with Abraham right next to the unpleasant place,
and he caps it off with
the place of torment is historical
made known to people by
Moses and the Prophets
and if you do not believe them
you will not believe one rising from the dead.

Timotheos you admittedly do not believe,
nor will you!

 

[Cross Reference]

How the heck is it selfish? He's actually being anything but if you could read yourself. If you sincerely thought that some eternal place of torment could await a being born into the world then how loving or responsible would it be to risk that? I wonder if folk like you even contemplate just what your doctrine dictates. The next time you stand on a nail, stub your toe or whatever then once you've stopped cussing and the pain subsides then consider that you promote something that constantly and endlessly goes on. Once you've not managed to comprehend that then you might come close to approaching a clue...

Although sadly, probably not.

I also wrote that it was from an "unlearned individual" which means had they been learned they would not have written it.

 

[Arthur Brain]

I also wrote that it was from an "unlearned individual" which means had they been learned they would not have written it.

Strikes me that they're learned enough to recognize the insidiousness of a doctrine along with the ramifications of it, hence their comment made more than enough sense. All you seem to have is pompous pseudo intellectualism in order to try and denigrate the guy for displaying some compassion. Way to go...

 

[Cross Reference]

Strikes me that they're learned enough to recognize the insidiousness of a doctrine along with the ramifications of it, hence their comment made more than enough sense. All you seem to have is pompous pseudo intellectualism in order to try and denigrate the guy for displaying some compassion. Way to go...

"Strikes me", you say? Did it hurt?

Who are you that I should be concerned about what you 'think' . . . about anything? I have already extended you courtesy beyond you ability to discern. That won't happen again.

 

[Arthur Brain]

"Strikes me", you say? Who are you that I should be concerned about what you 'think' . . . about anything?

Well you're obviously concerned enough to reply otherwise you wouldn't have bothered. Other than that I doubt you particularly care about anything that doesn't shoe horn into a cold and heartless doctrine of suffering. Pompous intellectualism is hardly notable for empathy or understanding...

 

[Cross Reference]

Well you're obviously concerned enough to reply otherwise you wouldn't have bothered. Other than that I doubt you particularly care about anything that doesn't shoe horn into a cold and heartless doctrine of suffering. Pompous intellectualism is hardly notable for empathy or understanding...

Fool me once :deadhorse:, shame on you. Twice? Shame on me.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Fool me once :deadhorse:, shame on you. Twice? Shame on me.

Well, shame on you then I guess...

:idunno:

 

[Arthur Brain]

"Strikes me", you say? Did it hurt?

Who are you that I should be concerned about what you 'think' . . . about anything? I have already extended you courtesy beyond you ability to discern. That won't happen again.

Hmm, seems you were concerned enough to edit your original reply to this 'extended' version. If you were so discerning you'd have noticed that the ability to discern includes recognizing correct grammar you pompous git. In other words it should have been "your ability" not "you ability"...

Pedantic? Sure, but then, what do you care?

 

[marke]

Its recently hit me as well that eternal torture is wrong. One good reason is we never signed up to be born on this planet. The gift of life is a great gift and I wouldnt want to seem unthankful to god for it but never being born would have been merciful if such a place existed. in fact as a christian for 35 yrs and a avid bible reader id have to say though I claimed belief in hell and even preached it at times I must have never belived it cause I had four children. I would have never reproduced if I really belived it.

My wife gave birth to 9 children and we now have 25 or 26 grandchildren (I lose count). We know some of our kids and some of our grandkids my end up in hell, but we are happy for those who trusted Jesus as Savior. The fact that some get saved makes it worthwhile to have had them all.

 

[Cross Reference]

My wife gave birth to 9 children and we now have 25 or 26 grandchildren (I lose count). We know some of our kids and some of our grandkids my end up in hell, but we are happy for those who trusted Jesus as Savior. The fact that some get saved makes it worthwhile to have had them all.

As learned Christians we know God desires all men to come to "know " Him and in that process be delivered from any ungoverned desires, governed meaning He alone is the "Grand Governor".

God's desire is for a vast family of "sons brought unto glory" to be His "Heirs and Joint Heirs with Jesus Christ", literally, Full of the Godhead. That alone, should be our motivation for having children. "Be fruitful and multiply", were His words.

As parents, it is our duty to disciple them in the ways of our Father that He be theirs as the outcome of it all. The 'law of the flesh' is our enemy in this endeavor which makes our "abiding in Christ" so much more our need, especially when "outside the camp" peer pressure begins its influence in their young lives with the result being: ". . . the little foxes, that spoil the vines: for our vines have tender grapes." Song of Songs 2:15 (KJV)

Our consistency in Christ is our 'love duty' to protect from the "foxes": "Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand". Ephesians 6:13 (KJV). . . while remembering: "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." Revelation 21:4 (KJV)

We, as parents, can only "advise and consent". . . and pray. We cannot save.

 

[Timotheos]

not to you



no.

my theology lines up perfectly with what Jesus
teaches here
Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

consciousness of the departed,
fire for the unrepentant to stand in,

Timotheos you do not believe this.


no



the story of Abraham Lazarus and the rich man is
historically accurate
and in agreement with Moses and the prophets
and Jesus
Mat 25:46**And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.





Luk 16:19-31
Jesus reveals
already known truths such as
consciousness of the departed,
fire for the unrepentant to stand in,
a protected place with Abraham right next to the unpleasant place,
and he caps it off with
the place of torment is historical
made known to people by
Moses and the Prophets
and if you do not believe them
you will not believe one rising from the dead.

Timotheos you admittedly do not believe,
nor will you!

You didn't even address John 3:16 and you can't because you disagree with what it says. Why don't you believe the Bible?

 

[Cross Reference]

You didn't even address John 3:16 and you can't because you disagree with what it says. Why don't you believe the Bible?

I am curious, Tim, as to what you think John 3:16 is refering to since mankind isn't mentioned?

 

[Arthur Brain]

My wife gave birth to 9 children and we now have 25 or 26 grandchildren (I lose count). We know some of our kids and some of our grandkids my end up in hell, but we are happy for those who trusted Jesus as Savior. The fact that some get saved makes it worthwhile to have had them all.

So...you think it's worthwhile if some of your children/grandchildren make it to Heaven while the rest end up suffering in some realm of eternal torment?

Wow. That goes beyond sick...

:vomit:

 

[Danoh]

Can't get around...

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

No matter how some try...

 

[Arthur Brain]

I can't believe anyone would think it's worthwhile for some of their own children to suffer as long as others made it to Heaven. That's just vile beyond description no matter how anyone might try to skirt around it. .