Justification of Eternal Punishment

Cross Reference

New member
Try this out in your present understanding of the literal:

"The LORD utters His voice before His army; Surely His camp is very great, For strong is he who carries out His word. The day of the LORD is indeed great and very awesome, And who can endure it?" Joel 2:11 (NASB)

Pleaseee give your understanding that it might define your "theology"?
 

Word based mystic

New member
No time, no ending. You can try to rationalize it till the cows come home, you will not change that fact __ not even by injecting "end of age" as being some sort of limiting factor. Sorry, it ain't there.

What you forfeit by sticking to your position is the understanding of what God meant when He said the soul that sins dies when in fact, the soul is eternal __ it cannot die..

greek philosophy should not be the perspective or beginning view you see scripture through. plato and socrates eternalzing the soul in myth and supposition. many christian philosophers began with platonism.

prove by scripture the soul is imperishable or indestructible Please.
 

Word based mystic

New member
No time, no ending. You can try to rationalize it till the cows come home, you will not change that fact __ not even by injecting "end of age" as being some sort of limiting factor. Sorry, it ain't there.

What you forfeit by sticking to your position is the understanding of what God meant when He said the soul that sins dies when in fact, the soul is eternal __ it cannot die..

i dont inject anything. ect takes things out and changes basic meanings to be the opposite.

you just directly contradicted the scripture with you denial that the soul who sins dies.

wages of sin.

cease to be forever.

perish = utterly destroy

so simple in so many confirmations.

while the wicked soul that is eternal is speculative and contradictory
of Jesus saying matth 10:28

show me the wicked soul is eternal and has eternal life

Jesus is life and sustains all life
if you are not in Him you will not have eternal life.

ignore the plain meaning of forever, and changed it from till the end of the age, period of time to be the opposite.

If I did any of these above things on any scriptural subject you would be all over me for changing the meaning of themes and word definitions.
 

Word based mystic

New member
i must be getting older. old men having dreams.

this one was a nightmare.

cross reference stole my book of synonyms and replaced it with a book of antonyms.

buahahahaha
just kidding had to throw in a bit of humor.
 

Cross Reference

New member
Tell you what, you stick to your Greek philosophies for understanding the scriptures and I'll will stick with my insight into them ___ gifted me.
 

Word based mystic

New member
Tell you what, you stick to your Greek philosophies for understanding the scriptures and I'll will stick with my insight into them ___ gifted me.

i said "greek philosophy should not be the perspective or beginning view you see scripture through. plato and socrates eternalzing the soul in myth and supposition. many christian philosophers began with platonism.

did you see the (((should not)))
and the implication that eternalizing the soul is a greek philosophy.

many initial church philosophers started or came out of platonism.

plato and socrates pushed the indestructible soul.

like ect.

I do (not) ascribe to the greek philosophies.

i imply that you do.

many christian philosophers start with a foundation of another philosophy in viewing scripture.

so the twisting or word changing begins in order to match that initial philosophy.

You promote the eternal wicked soul which is not in scripture.

but very much a greek philosophy.
 

Word based mystic

New member
Try this out in your present understanding of the literal:

"The LORD utters His voice before His army; Surely His camp is very great, For strong is he who carries out His word. The day of the LORD is indeed great and very awesome, And who can endure it?" Joel 2:11 (NASB)

Pleaseee give your understanding that it might define your "theology"?

you just proved my point by using joel 2:11

i have repeatedly used isaiah 33:14 Who among us can live with the consuming fire? Who among us can live with continual burning?" 15He who walks righteously and speaks with sincerity, He who rejects unjust gain And shakes his hands so that they hold no bribe; He who stops his ears from hearing about bloodshed And shuts his eyes from looking upon evil

only the righteous can survive the fire.
the wicked (cannot) live with continual burning.
 

Cross Reference

New member
you just proved my point by using joel 2:11

i have repeatedly used isaiah 33:14 Who among us can live with the consuming fire? Who among us can live with continual burning?" 15He who walks righteously and speaks with sincerity, He who rejects unjust gain And shakes his hands so that they hold no bribe; He who stops his ears from hearing about bloodshed And shuts his eyes from looking upon evil

only the righteous can survive the fire.
the wicked (cannot) live with continual burning.

We don't agree. Leave it alone.
 

Timotheos

New member
Where in the Bible does it even say that a soul cannot die?

I don't think that the Bible says that. I can see in the Bible where it says that a soul CAN die. In Ezekiel 18:4 the Bible says "The soul who sins will die". If a soul can't die, then God's Word is in error where He says "The soul who sins will die". If I believe that a soul can't die, then I also have to believe that God is a little confused about what happens to a soul who sins.

Also, should I fear the one who CAN destroy both body AND SOUL according to Jesus Christ in Matthew 10:28? Or should I fear the one who CANNOT destroy both body and soul, since "in fact, the soul is eternal __ it cannot die" as some people claim?

In fact, the soul can die. Souls who are wicked can and will die. This is according to the Bible. They will be destroyed on the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. 2 Peter 3:7
 

Cross Reference

New member
Where in the Bible does it even say that a soul cannot die?

I don't think that the Bible says that. I can see in the Bible where it says that a soul CAN die. In Ezekiel 18:4 the Bible says "The soul who sins will die". If a soul can't die, then God's Word is in error where He says "The soul who sins will die". If I believe that a soul can't die, then I also have to believe that God is a little confused about what happens to a soul who sins.

Also, should I fear the one who CAN destroy both body AND SOUL according to Jesus Christ in Matthew 10:28? Or should I fear the one who CANNOT destroy both body and soul, since "in fact, the soul is eternal __ it cannot die" as some people claim?

In fact, the soul can die. Souls who are wicked can and will die. This is according to the Bible. They will be destroyed on the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. 2 Peter 3:7


God has a soul. We were created in His image ___ by Him.
 

Timotheos

New member
God has a soul. We were created in His image ___ by Him.

This is rather speculative, don't you think?
In the first place, you haven't established from the Scriptures that God has a soul or not. I'm not saying he doesn't, I'm saying that you must prove what you believe from Scripture.

Secondly, we were created in God's image, but that does not mean that we are exactly like God. He is omniscient. You are I disagree, which means that at least one of us is not omniscient.

Thirdly, your comment does not prove that the Bible is wrong where it says "The soul who sins will die", and "fear the one who can destroy both body and soul".

Fourthly, you called me a "snot ball" earlier.
 

Cross Reference

New member
This is rather speculative, don't you think?

No.

In the first place, you haven't established from the Scriptures that God has a soul or not. I'm not saying he doesn't, I'm saying that you must prove what you believe from Scripture.

Does not God possess a Mind, Will and Emotions?:

"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him" Hebrews 10:38 (KJV)

"Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD: and shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?" Jeremiah 5:9 (KJV)

Secondly, we were created in God's image, but that does not mean that we are exactly like God. He is omniscient. You are I disagree, which means that at least one of us is not omniscient.

This is not about divine attributes but, character by which God is knowable.. Again, does not God possess a Mind, Will and Emotions? Can that ever be "destroyed" in either God or man if by blowing into his nostrils the, "Breath of Life" man became a "Living soul"?

Thirdly, your comment does not prove that the Bible is wrong where it says "The soul who sins will die", and "fear the one who can destroy both body and soul".

But then you ignore what is submitted to you as proof. So why should anyone bother?

Fourthly, you called me a "snot ball" earlier.
Well, you can rectify that anytime you wish.
 

Timotheos

New member
No.



Does not God possess a Mind, Will and Emotions?:

"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him" Hebrews 10:38 (KJV)

"Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD: and shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?" Jeremiah 5:9 (KJV)



This is not about divine attributes but, character by which God is knowable.. Again, does not God possess a Mind, Will and Emotions? Can that ever be "destroyed" in either God or man if by blowing into his nostrils the, "Breath of Life" man became a "Living soul"?



But then you ignore what is submitted to you as proof. So why should anyone bother?

Well, you can rectify that anytime you wish.

You did not prove that the Bible is wrong where it says "the soul who sins shall die". Since the Bible says that the soul who sins shall die, any doctrine which insists that the soul can't die is wrong.
 
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Timotheos

New member
The Bible isn't wrong. Your interpretation of it, is. Why not consider that as being the case?

Because I didn't interpret the Bible as saying "the soul who sins shall die". That is actually what it says. Why can't you consider that your interpretation is wrong, particularly since your interpretation is the exact opposite of what the Bible says? You claim that a soul can't die. The Bible says that some souls shall die. Obviously, souls can die, since they will die.
 
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Word based mystic

New member
The spirit/inner man died on that day. As surely as God said so.
on that day you shall surely die.

the soul no longer has the potential or capability to live never ending.

Jesus is the Life and adam did not choose life and relationship with The Word/visible image of God.

Man listened to a lie from satan. Which he is a liar.
that lie was you shall surely NOT DIE.

God is Spirit. And in order to properly interact, relate and perceive God man needed to be born again. The inner man/spirit needed to be birthed through Christ, Who is the LIFE.

Now being born again our spirit can now house the Holy Spirit.
Spirit to spirit interaction.

The soul does not have eternal life.

It can only be carried into eternal life through the Holy Spirit in Christ, who is the life.

no flesh body or carnal soul can have life without CHRIST who is the LIFE.

all perishable and destructible substance will be consumed and destroyed by the ETERNAL Fire, which consumes and destroys.

it does not sustain life,
nor does it regenerate life after the destruction/perishing.

It is obvious in scripture that only the righteous can stand and not be consumed by the fire.

the spirit was dead in adam
in Christ our spirit man can now be born again and properly interact with the Holy Spirit and the Father in fullness without being consumed.
 

Cross Reference

New member
Because I didn't interpret the Bible as saying "the soul who sins shall die". That is actually what it says. Why can't you consider that your interpretation is wrong, particularly since your interpretation is the exact opposite of what the Bible says? You claim that a soul can't die. The Bible says that some souls shall die. Obviously, souls can die, since they will die.

It is quite obvious to me that you and Wbm need to be right in order to keep going in your religion. That is the reason you keep ignoring what is posited that counters it:

"Behold, all souls are Mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is Mine; the soul that sins, it shall die. Ezekiel 18:4 (AMP).

Here is the principle you must understand: Only love can create. Love never fails in what it creates. Don't ever believe it is love's failure when love is rejected. God is Love. His Love never ends and continues except when completely severed by the soul of the one who wilfully rejects it.

Until then, God's Love goes on even while the "rejecter" is released to do his own thing to somewhere where love exists but cannot abide because of lawlessness (cf Sodom); where reprobation awaits him either by physical death or the death of the patience of God. To say he is destroyed would be an understatement because the destruction never ends from the day he leaves his father's presence until he returns __ if he returns.. Why it never ends?, because what God creates in His image remains somewhere and that is the important point to remember. Where is that somewhere for one who rejects God and dies his physical or spiritual, death?

Adam sinned. Adam died his physical death. Where did he go when departed the land of the living?

I hope you understand that when the body dies the soul and spirit are separated out. Ashes to ashes and dust is the destination of our body. The spirit returns to God who gave it per, Ecc.12:7 KJV and the soul, well, it needs a place to reside, doesn't it?

What is the soul that it cannot die? The soul of Adam was the only thing that was created. His body was formed and his spirit given.

It was created in the image of God Who has a Mind, Will and Emotions: "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." Psalm 82:6 (KJV). The mind, will and emotions are indestructibles unless you believe the Mind, Will and Emotions of God are destructible? Man was gifted and sealed to these lesser particular attributes which included Faith to believe, when God breathed into him the breath of life. He made man a living soul after the pattern of Himself as the basis for what He planned both for Himself and man had man obeyed. It was the basis for calling man up to something higher in God when God was satisfied man could handle His glory.

Try viewing the prodigal son story as an example of this. Ask yourself the question what would have been the disposition of the prodigal had he not returned to his father before either him or his father, died?
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Because I didn't interpret the Bible as saying "the soul who sins shall die". That is actually what it says. Why can't you consider that your interpretation is wrong, particularly since your interpretation is the exact opposite of what the Bible says? You claim that a soul can't die. The Bible says that some souls shall die. Obviously, souls can die, since they will die.

the second death

it is very clear what that is
 

Cross Reference

New member
The spirit/inner man died on that day. As surely as God said so.
on that day you shall surely die.

the soul no longer has the potential or capability to live never ending.

Jesus is the Life and adam did not choose life and relationship with The Word/visible image of God.

Man listened to a lie from satan. Which he is a liar.
that lie was you shall surely NOT DIE.

God is Spirit. And in order to properly interact, relate and perceive God man needed to be born again. The inner man/spirit needed to be birthed through Christ, Who is the LIFE.

Now being born again our spirit can now house the Holy Spirit.
Spirit to spirit interaction.

The soul does not have eternal life.

It can only be carried into eternal life through the Holy Spirit in Christ, who is the life.

no flesh body or carnal soul can have life without CHRIST who is the LIFE.

all perishable and destructible substance will be consumed and destroyed by the ETERNAL Fire, which consumes and destroys.

it does not sustain life,
nor does it regenerate life after the destruction/perishing.

It is obvious in scripture that only the righteous can stand and not be consumed by the fire.

the spirit was dead in adam
in Christ our spirit man can now be born again and properly interact with the Holy Spirit and the Father in fullness without being consumed.

"And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness." Romans 8:10 (KJV)

Funny, my body isn't dead now nor ever has been. Perhaps you can reconcile that wording with your doctrine?
 
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