John Calvin's Nazi God.

[God's Truth]

They are all present in each other, but they have their separate functions. If you confuse the work of the trinity the Bible will not make sense.

God the Father remains in heaven.

God the Son comes into the world as the savior.

God the Holy Spirit glorifies the work of the Son and works in the life of the believer.

God the Father is not the savior. God the Son is not the Holy Spirit, God the Holy Spirit is not the Father.

They do not just 'represent' each other. They do not have separate works.

You are teaching falseness just like when you said Jesus did not raise himself.

I corrected you and you know it. You should be glad that you have been corrected.

You said Jesus did not raise himself.

You taught something false and now you do not come to actually realizing something great in it.

 

[God's Truth]

You know little when you claim a dead man raised Himself from the dead.

You deny Christ died, You think His spirit was still alive because you say His spirit is God, thus making Jesus not a man at all.

You deny Gods son being in Heaven now at the right hand of God.

Yes I know "false accuser etc."

LA

You are so evil that you lie about me and say I reject Christ and you speak against my saying Jesus raised himself, yet you avoided quoting my post where I say it and prove it with scriptures.

Why are you hiding from the scriptures?

God raised Jesus from the dead.

Acts 2:32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact.

Rom. 10:9, 1 Pet. 1:21


The Father raised him.

Gal. 1:1; Eph. 1:17,20


Jesus raised himself.

John 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

Jesus and God are the same. That is why some scripture says God raised Jesus, and other scriptures say Jesus raised himself

The Holy Spirit raised Jesus.

Romans 8:11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,

(Jesus was made alive by the Spirit, because the Holy Spirit is his Spirit.)

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
1 Peter 3:18 Because The Messiah also died once for the sake of our sins, The Righteous One in the place of sinners, to bring you to God, and he died in body and lived in his Spirit.

 

[God's Truth]

They are all present in each other, but they have their separate functions.

Their works ARE THE SAME. Everything that the Father says, Jesus says. Everything that the Father does, Jesus does.

Jesus is not different from God the Father they are the same.

John 16:13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14"He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.…

John 5:19 Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.

John 5:17 In his defense Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working."

John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

John 4:34
"My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

John 10:37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.

When we see Jesus, we see the Father.

See John 8:19; 14:7, 9; Hebrews 1:3; and, Colossians 1:15.

John 12:45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me.

When we see Jesus, we can say, "I see the Father."

God the Son comes into the world as the savior.

They are not different as you say.
The scriptures say the Father is the Savior, and other scriptures say Jesus is the Savior.

God the Father is not the savior.

You sure say a lot of things that go against the Bible.

Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from me there is no savior.

Psalm 24:5 They will receive blessing from the Lord and vindication from God their Savior.

Isaiah 45:21 Declare what is to be, present it— let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, the Lord? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me.

...and MANY, MANY, more.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jesus and his earliest disciples/apostles would surely be 'Unitarian' by catagory.

That is ridiculous and when we look at the following exchange between the Lord Jesus and the Jews we can see that the Lord Jesus was telling them that He is God:

"But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God" (Jn.5:17-18).​

The Jews who heard Him obviously thought that when He referred to His Father that way that He was claiming to be God.

If this was just a misunderstanding then the Lord Jesus would have cleared this up, saying, "No, I am not claiming to be God." However, what He told the Jews only made it even more plain that He was claiming to be God. First, He told them that He had the same power to raise up the dead as does the Father (v.21). He then said that all judgment has been committed to Him by the Father (v.22). Then He told them this:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (Jn.5:23).​

There can be absolutely no doubt that by those words the Lord Jesus was confirming the Jews' idea that He was making Himself equal to God. And there is no reason at all why He would say those things unless He is God.

And if you are not honoring the Lord Jesus as God then you are not honoring either the Father or the Lord Jesus.

 

[Robert Pate]

Their works ARE THE SAME. Everything that the Father says, Jesus says. Everything that the Father does, Jesus does.

Jesus is not different from God the Father they are the same.

John 16:13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14"He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.…

John 5:19 Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.

John 5:17 In his defense Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working."

John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

John 4:34
"My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

John 10:37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.

When we see Jesus, we see the Father.

See John 8:19; 14:7, 9; Hebrews 1:3; and, Colossians 1:15.

John 12:45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me.

When we see Jesus, we can say, "I see the Father."



They are not different as you say.
The scriptures say the Father is the Savior, and other scriptures say Jesus is the Savior.



You sure say a lot of things that go against the Bible.

Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from me there is no savior.

Psalm 24:5 They will receive blessing from the Lord and vindication from God their Savior.

Isaiah 45:21 Declare what is to be, present it— let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, the Lord? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me.

...and MANY, MANY, more.

According to what you believe there is no trinity.

 

[freelight]

Flame on with some more truth........

Flame on with some more truth........

Unitarians are flammable

LOL

Comedy break?

I'm sure Trinitarians are just as 'flammable' (and apparently within Calvinism, just as expendable)

I'm also quite sure as I've always stated,...there are wonderful 'unitarian' and 'trinitariain' christians who love the Lord, and serve him as best as they can.

I'm also pretty sure as much I have a conscience with God's law inside showing me what's right from wrong that the ECT (eternal conscious torment) doctrine of people burning forever in 'hell-fire' is a most dastardly doctrine of the vilest cruelty. We've exposed it here.

Oh, and yes...we've exposed the travesty of TULIP here as well,....the God of 'preterition',...the one who withholds saving grace from his offspring, and only gives it to a select few, for reasons that are as yet most mysterious. But dont question this 'god',...after all...hes 'God' :down:

 

[freelight]

Lon,

You have no idea.

God is love.

You make up a lot of words which mean nothing except in your own mind.

LA

:thumb:

My commentary holds,...let readers discern and decide what is true. They have the freedom to choose for themselves.

 

[God's Truth]

:thumb:

My commentary holds,...let readers discern and decide what is true. They have the freedom to choose for themselves.

Do you know about the thief who enters another way?

 

[God's Truth]

You know little when you claim a dead man raised Himself from the dead.

Jesus raised himself. You are going against the Word of God. God gave Jesus the authority to do it himself---BUT YOU SAY NO.

You deny Christ died,

Not true. Christ died.

You think His spirit was still alive because you say His spirit is God, thus making Jesus not a man at all.

All men have spirits. No spirit dies.

You deny Gods son being in Heaven now at the right hand of God.

God in the flesh is at the right hand of the Father now.

So anyone who can see, they can see you are lying about me, for I have told you many times and you still repeat your lies.

Yes I know "false accuser etc."

LA

I haven't said it yet, so you are a false prophet. You also know what should be said to you about witnessing; how ironic.

 

[God's Truth]

Lazy says Jesus didn't raise himself and she/he calls me a liar for saying he did.

You know little when you claim a dead man raised Himself from the dead.

Let the Reader judge for themselves.

Jesus says God gave him the authority to raise himself:

John 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."


All can see now that Lazy is the liar and goes against God's Truth.

 

[God's Truth]

According to what you believe there is no trinity.

That is all you can say about all the scriptures I gave and proved you wrong?

There are three. I have said that many times.

There are three and not the way the trinity doctrine says.

 

[God's Truth]

According to Lazy Afternoon, Jesus disobeyed the Father who commanded him to raise himself.

 

[freelight]

Clarifying for readers...............

Clarifying for readers...............

That is ridiculous and when we look at the following exchange between the Lord Jesus and the Jews we can see that the Lord Jesus was telling them that He is God:

"But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God" (Jn.5:17-18).​

The Jews who heard Him obviously thought that when He referred to His Father that way that He was claiming to be God.

FALSE - Jesus never claimed to be 'God Almighty', but did admit to being the 'Son of God'. There is a significant difference. Jesus and his disciples were Unitarians, in that they held to their native traditional orthodox Judaism, at least at the core, where God the Father, is the Only 'God', even YHWH Elohim, the Most HIGH, and this God is one. See the Shema. Jesus gave his sole allegience to the One True God, his 'God' and our 'God'. The passage above is only a narrative by the writer describing what the Jews 'assumed' or 'believed', and/or is what the writer himself is assuming.

Jesus himself refutes this belief fully in his discourse in the same gospel; we shall review again -

31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” 33 The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” (see here, this is the Jews assuming Jesus was making himself out to be 'God') 34 Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? (Note here Jesus quotes scripture to show that God even called human judges 'gods'(elohim), just to show them that even they were regarded as 'sons' of 'God' as well. Then he testifies ONLY to the attribution of being the Son of God, NOT 'God Almighty') 37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may [f]know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.” 39 Therefore they were seeking again to seize Him, and He eluded their grasp.

- John 10

If this was just a misunderstanding then the Lord Jesus would have cleared this up, saying, "No, I am not claiming to be God." However, what He told the Jews only made it even more plain that He was claiming to be God.

See above, Jesus DID clear up their mis-assumption - brilliantly in fact by quoting scripture and his own testimony.

First, He told them that He had the same power to raise up the dead as does the Father (v.21).

Uh huh,...God gave him that power.

He then said that all judgment has been committed to Him by the Father (v.22). Then He told them this:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (Jn.5:23).​

We've been over this many times. Of course honor is given to God's Son, just as well to 'God'.

There can be absolutely no doubt that by those words the Lord Jesus was confirming the Jews' idea that He was making Himself equal to God. And there is no reason at all why He would say those things unless He is God.

The passage above in chapter 10 shows otherwise. This is what the writer put within the narrative, but remember Jesus testimony himself. I think what Jesus says trumps the Jews and writers assumptions

And if you are not honoring the Lord Jesus as God then you are not honoring either the Father or the Lord Jesus.

You are with the Jews assuming things. Jesus by his own testimony clears this up, and his example of quoting scripture shows even if he they believed he was claiming the title of 'elohim', that God of old also called the human judges/leaders of Israel 'god'! BUT Jesus clarifies their mistaken correlation,....and affirms his SONSHIP,....NOT his DEITY. - do make the distinction

You can attibute, superimpose or assume any measure of divinity upon Jesus if you like, and John's gospel actually affords you the luxury of such with many possible passges (which are a matter of 'translation') but lets be true to the text. Furthermore,...John ends his profilic gospel in showing that faith in Jesus the Christ as the SON of God is what affords one eternal life.

A Unitarian interpretation of scripture still holds as a tenable, rational and logical composite thru which to understand one's relationship to God, and God's relationship to His Son. But you're free to believe whatever seems most appropriate at any given time in your religious studies - with more study, viewpoints could be modified. Points of view are subject to change.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

FALSE - Jesus never claimed to be 'God Almighty', but did admit to being the 'Son of God'. There is a significant difference. Jesus and his disciples were Unitarians, in that they held to their native traditional orthodox Judaism, at least at the core, where God the Father, is the Only 'God', even YHWH Elohim, the Most HIGH, and this God is one. See the Shema. Jesus gave his sole allegience to the One True God, his 'God' and our 'God'. The passage above is only a narrative by the writer describing what the Jews 'assumed' or 'believed', and/or is what the writer himself is assuming.

Jesus himself refutes this belief fully in his discourse in the same gospel; we shall review again -

31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” 33 The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” (see here, this is the Jews assuming Jesus was making himself out to be 'God') 34 Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? (Note here Jesus quotes scripture to show that God even called human judges 'gods'(elohim), just to show them that even they were regarded as 'sons' of 'God' as well. Then he testifies ONLY to the attribution of being the Son of God, NOT 'God Almighty') 37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may [f]know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.” 39 Therefore they were seeking again to seize Him, and He eluded their grasp.

- John 10



See above, Jesus DID clear up their mis-assumption - brilliantly in fact by quoting scripture and his own testimony.



Uh huh,...God gave him that power.



We've been over this many times. Of course honor is given to God's Son, just as well to 'God'.



The passage above in chapter 10 shows otherwise. This is what the writer put within the narrative, but remember Jesus testimony himself. I think what Jesus says trumps the Jews and writers assumptions



You are with the Jews assuming things. Jesus by his own testimony clears this up, and his example of quoting scripture shows even if he they believed he was claiming the title of 'elohim', that God of old also called the human judges/leaders of Israel 'god'! BUT Jesus clarifies their mistaken correlation,....and affirms his SONSHIP,....NOT his DEITY. - do make the distinction

You can attibute, superimpose or assume any measure of divinity upon Jesus if you like, and John's gospel actually affords you the luxury of such with many possible passges (which are a matter of 'translation') but lets be true to the text. Furthermore,...John ends his profilic gospel in showing that faith in Jesus the Christ as the SON of God is what affords one eternal life.

A Unitarian interpretation of scripture still holds as a tenable, rational and logical composite thru which to understand one's relationship to God, and God's relationship to His Son. But you're free to believe whatever seems most appropriate at any given time in your religious studies - with more study, viewpoints could be modified. Points of view are subject to change.

You really should stick with things that you cling to. Such as New-Age spiritualism, the Urantia Book, mysticism, metaphysics, little green men in their shiny UFOs, and the occult.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

LOL

Comedy break?

I'm sure Trinitarians are just as 'flammable' (and apparently within Calvinism, just as expendable)

I'm also quite sure as I've always stated,...there are wonderful 'unitarian' and 'trinitariain' christians who love the Lord, and serve him as best as they can.

I'm also pretty sure as much I have a conscience with God's law inside showing me what's right from wrong that the ECT (eternal conscious torment) doctrine of people burning forever in 'hell-fire' is a most dastardly doctrine of the vilest cruelty. We've exposed it here.

Oh, and yes...we've exposed the travesty of TULIP here as well,....the God of 'preterition',...the one who withholds saving grace from his offspring, and only gives it to a select few, for reasons that are as yet most mysterious. But dont question this 'god',...after all...hes 'God' :down:

Have you told them about your belief in "Cosmic Ledership" (along with their strange names) and how THEY control the Universe about us?

 

[freelight]

Do you know about the thief who enters another way?

Yes, and I think its important to maybe steer the discussion back on Calvinism

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

See my former dissertation on Unitarianism in Kingdom Rose's thread

If you follow my commentary, I have no HUGE problem with a trinitarian concept of Deity, for 'God' is a manifold ONE. I do share in current discussion however a more Unitarian Christology, and use that as a platform for 'creative dialogue', as a contrast over-view...showing the possible alternative views within Christology. Between Unitarianism and Trinitarianism...there is a broad spectrum. I dont pigeonhole 'God' or 'Christ' in any one particular slot necessarily. Remember, Deity is INFINITE

And yes,...if you have the Spirit of 'God', and express his divine nature and the fruits thereof,...'God' love u!

Tell them about your "Cosmic Entities" and how they RULE the Universe. That's always good for a laugh or a giggle.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, and I think its important to maybe steer the discussion back on Calvinism

Then why aren't you?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You have narrowly circumscribed God to a book,...that is rather myopic, illogical and unnecessary, since God is INFINITE. I have full conscious awareness of whatever choices are being made available in each arising moment. Most sentient beings do

By the way, how many planets did you visit in 2016? I mean you and your fellow "Urantion" Caino.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Freelight is not a Christion believer, he's a multi-faceted "Occult/Cultist."