Jesus Christ is God's Predestinated, Elected Man

musterion

Well-known member
Reprobates are so because they have rejected what has been plainly revealed (for example, see Romans 1).

Having been "passed over in eternity past," thus unenlightened and unenlightenable, what alternative was there? None.

They are not reprobates because God declared them to be so for no other reason than they exist. Rather their state of sin and continued rejection of the light around them condemns them.

So God, knowing the future from the past, looked down "the tunnel of time" from eternity past and saw the reprobates would reject the light around them, culminating in their rejection of Christ? That means Man's choice condemns him. Congratulations; you just discovered free will.

God owes them only His holy justice, not mercy.

How's that work when the world has been reconciled to God? Oh, right..."world" = "only the elect," which is nonsense since they were as good as reconciled from eternity past by virtue of election.

People suffering the eternal punishment of God are exactly where they want to be and they continue to gnash their teeth (snarling as angry dogs) at God for eternity, thereby their eternal punishment proceeds accordingly. The gates of hell are locked from the inside. Such are the actual facts, musterion.

AMR

Yeah...if only there were some salvational process by which a merciful deity could have marked even these out for salvation, thereby sparing them from themselves. Alas, it's not to be, eh? Can't have the Elect without the non-Elect.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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GM,

A debate on doctrinal matters necessarily includes appeal to the whole counsel of the ground of all doctrine, the Scripture. I have been making said appeals while you seem to be only stating "I believe..." without mounting an argument supported by Scripture that can be examined. If all you are going to do is assert your beliefs, then of course the discussion is at a standstill and we are back to what I have originally observed last October concerning your proclivity of just making grand sweeping statements about Calvinism (even as your recent insult in the post immediately above). I get that doing so serves some purpose for you, but as relates to iron sharpening iron, no edification of the saints can spring from such behavior. As things stand, I am forced to conclude one of us is actually trying to debate the matters before us, the other is only wanting to have a casual conversation. If there comes a time when you want to engage at a deeper level about Calvinism, I can only pray with hope you would know that there are not a few of us here and about willing and able to accommodate you.

I appreciate your taking the time with me and look forward to future efforts.

AMR

Your "Belief system" is so ingrained in you that, you're unable to see over it, around it, or below it. You are obviously, indoctrinated to such a degree that, posting Scripture and marvelous words and sentences will be of no use. You and your ilk interpret Scripture according to your chosen belief system. If the Scripture differs from your belief system, you'll find a way to MAKE it fit. Why? Because, Calvinism IS your "god." Calvinists have changed the total character of God. So, the god you see in the Scriptures isn't the same God Grace Believers see.
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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So God, knowing the future from the past, looked down "the tunnel of time" from eternity past and saw the reprobates would reject the light around them, culminating in their rejection of Christ? That means Man's choice condemns him. Congratulations; you just discovered free will.
A nice try, yet one that was not unanticipated. :AMR:

When one considers the possible logical orderings of God's decree, one may assume there is the decision to create, to actively permit the fall with the ruin of all posterity, the election to salvation of certain ones from the fallen human race, leaving of others in their native corruption and misery, the sending of of Our Lord into the world as the Mediator and surety of the elect, the effectual calling of the elect and their justification, sanctification, and glorification. The lump of clay contemplated in God's hands was a fallen lump of clay, from which God's mercy and justice were made manifest. Nothing here implies foreseen merit or demerit of an individual, but merely God's good pleasure to elect a great multitude no man can number and leave the rest in their sinful state all for nothing but His own glory.

How's that work when the world has been reconciled to God? Oh, right..."world" = "only the elect," which is nonsense since they were as good as reconciled from eternity past by virtue of election.
When it was said of John the Baptist that "There went out unto him all the country of Judea, and all they of Jerusalem; and they were baptized of him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins," (Mark 1:5), we know that not each and every individual did so respond.

We read that after Peter and John had healed the lame man at the door of the temple, "all men glorified God for that which was done" (Acts 4:21). Again, we know this does not mean each and every person.

Jesus told his disciples that they would be "hated of all men" for His name's sake, (Luke 21:17). We know this does not mean each and every person for the emergent church contained actual believers.

And when Jesus said, "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself," (John 12:32), Our Lord certainly did not mean that every individual of mankind would be so drawn, else we have Judas now in heaven as but one example demonstrating the foolishness of such a notion. Rather what He did mean was that Jews and Gentiles, men of all nations and races, would be drawn to Him. And that is what we see is actually happening. And while the topic presents itself, drawing is not hand-wringing wooing in lachrymose hope, but an effectual dragging. :AMR:

Likewise, in 1 Corinthians 15:22 we read, "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be make alive." This verse is often quoted to prove unlimited or universal atonement. Rather the honest reader understands this to mean "For as all born in Adam die, so also all born again in Christ shall be alive."

And so on... http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-John-Calvin&p=4568222&viewfull=1#post4568222

It only suits you to declare words carrying greater than their context will bear in order to make sarcastic and very weak assertions.

AMR
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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I don't recognize the "god" AMR and his fellow Calvinists see. He has been altered to fit the Calvinist believer. I would encourage posters to Google; John Calvin and
Saint Augustine? Calvin was inspired by Augustine. Neither one of these guys were: "Good Guys." Both had "Moral and sinful" issues in their lives. Calvin had at least fifty-eight human beings murdered.(Executed) He also dabbled in supposed "Witches" being burned at the stake. He was a wicked and evil man. Augustine had his own moral problems. Calvinism is a false, medley of doctrines.

Place Calvinism next to The Grace Gospel taught by the Apostle Paul and you'll see a gigantic difference. AMR and his ilk will, of course, deny everything I've said.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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Looking at AMRs discussion with Musterion, it looks as if AMR is getting rather upset/angry?
AMR is an okay kind of guy. Personally, I like him.
 
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Ask Mr. Religion

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Your "Belief system" is so ingrained in you that, you're unable to see over it, around it, or below it. You are obviously, indoctrinated to such a degree that, posting Scripture and marvelous words and sentences will be of no use. You and your ilk interpret Scripture according to your chosen belief system. If the Scripture differs from your belief system, you'll find a way to MAKE it fit. Why? Because, Calvinism IS your "god." Calvinists have changed the total character of God. So, the god you see in the Scriptures isn't the same God Grace Believers see.

I don't recognize the "god" AMR and his fellow Calvinists see. He has been altered to fit the Calvinist believer. I would encourage posters to Google; John Calvin and
Saint Augustine? Calvin was inspired by Augustine. Neither one of these guys were: "Good Guys." Both had "Moral and sinful" issues in their lives. Calvin had at least fifty-eight human beings murdered.(Executed) He also dabbled in supposed "Witches" being burned at the stake. He was a wicked and evil man. Augustine had his own moral problems. Calvinism is a false, medley of doctrines.

Place Calvinism next to The Grace Gospel taught by the Apostle Paul and you'll see a gigantic difference. AMR and his ilk will, of course, deny everything I've said.

Looking at AMRs discussion with Musterion, it looks as if AMR is getting rather upset/angry?
AMR is an okay kind of guy. Personally, I like him.

Not upset, nor angry, but there is always that possibility.

I see that once any pretense at substantive discussion is removed, you revert to the usual cavils. I made an honest attempt to discuss weighty matters with you, yet you demurred. Now you seek to offer up foul bait that you think I will take up? What am I to make of this? Sigh.

No matter. One thing you will not find me doing is declaring a professing believer to have a different God, brother. Beam. Eye. Remove it.

AMR
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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Not upset, nor angry, but there is always that possibility.

I see that once any pretense at substantive discussion is removed, you revert to the usual cavils. I made an honest attempt to discuss weighty matters with you, yet you demurred. Now you seek to offer up foul bait that you think I will take up? What am I to make of this? Sigh.

No matter. One thing you will not find me doing is declaring a professing believer to have a different God, brother. Beam. Eye. Remove it.

AMR

I did of course, anticipate your ire. However, I feel it necessary to be honest with you and myself. I truly believe Calvinism to be a form of cultist belief. The god you speak of appears to be unrecognizable regarding the God that I read and study about. As I have said; "Personally, I respect/like you as a person." Your "belief system" however, is the total opposite of the way I look at, all things Spiritual.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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Can you offer up a personal Testimony of how you came to Christ and He, you? I can never get a Calvinist to give their Testimony of how they came to Christ? I've given my Testimony on TOL, a number of times and not fearful of doing so. What was your experience and how did it change your life? I'm not a Charismatic/Pentecostal so, I'm not expecting some "speaking in tongues" experience. I realize you're not of that way.
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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Can you offer up a personal Testimony of how you came to Christ and He, you? I can never get a Calvinist to give their Testimony of how they came to Christ? I've given my Testimony on TOL, a number of times and not fearful of doing so. What was your experience and how did it change your life? I'm not a Charismatic/Pentecostal so, I'm not expecting some "speaking in tongues" experience. I realize you're not of that way.
@Grosnick Marowbe

I have done so, but is appears to slip by you:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...on-Free-Will&p=4202313&viewfull=1#post4202313

Then again, there is this...
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...inity-Debate&p=3724734&viewfull=1#post3724734
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...inity-Debate&p=3712926&viewfull=1#post3712926
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?97219-My-Ignored-List&p=3712900&viewfull=1#post3712900
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...inity-Debate&p=3694531&viewfull=1#post3694531

If you want a testimony from a Calvinist (or anyone for that matter), why not ask absent veiled mockery or derision that implies none is possible? Can you point me to at least three of the "number of times" you have provided a testimony? Thanks.

I also have a Statement of Faith shown here for those interested:
Spoiler

You are free to use this statement of faith or the RTI version to develop your own. Every believer should do this and continue to test their beliefs against the Scriptures.

What I Believe

1. There is but one God (Deuteronomy 4:39), who is eternal (Isaiah 57:15; Psalms 90:2; Psalms 90:4; Revelation 1:8; Revelation 4:8; John 8:58; Exodus 3:14; Isaiah 45:21; Isaiah 46:9-10; Galatians 4:4-5; Acts 17:30-31), a spirit (John 4:24), sovereign (Hebrews 1:3; Colossians 1:17; Acts 17:28; Nehemiah 9:6; 2 Peter 3:7; Job 12:23; Job 34:14-15; Job 38:32; Matthew 5:45; Matthew 6:26; Numbers 23:19; 2 Samuel 7:28; Psalms 33:14-15; Psalms 104:14; Psalms 104:29; Psalms 135:6; Psalms 139:16; Psalms 141:6; Psalms 148:8; Proverbs 16:1; Proverbs 16:33; Proverbs 20:24; Proverbs 21:1; Proverbs 30:5; John 17:17; Ephesians 1:11; Galatians 1:15; 1 Timothy 6:15; Jeremiah 1:5; 1 Corinthians 4:7), good (Psalms 86:4; Psalms 107:1), loving (1 John 4:16), holy (Isaiah 6:3; Revelations 4:8 ), transcendent (Isaiah 40:25), omnipotent (2 Kings 19:25; Psalms 135:6; Jeremiah 32:17; Jeremiah 32:27; Genesis 8:14; Luke 1:37; Matthew 19:26; Psalms 115:3; Matthew 3:9), omniscient (Job 37:16; 1 John 3:20; 1 Cor. 2:10-11; Hebrews 4:13; 2 Chronicles 16:9; Job 28:24; Matthew 10:29-30; Isaiah 46:9-10; Isaiah 42:8-9; Matthew 6:8; Matthew 10:30; Psalms 139:1-2; Psalms 139:4; Psalms 139:16; Romans 11:33), unchangeable (Psalms 33:11; Psalms 102:25-27; Malachi 3:6; James 1:17; Isaiah 46:9-11; Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29; Zechariah 8:17), yet not existing in an eternally frozen pose but possessing Godly passions and emotions (Isaiah 62:5; Psalms 78:40; Ephesians 4:30; Exodus 32:10; Psalms 103:13; Isaiah 54:8; Psalms 103:17), and perfectly righteous (Psalms 7:11).

2. Every unregenerate person is a sinner (Romans 3:23), spiritually dead in his sins (Ephesians 2:1), possessing a deceitful heart (Jeremiah 17:9), is full of evil (Mark 7:21-23), wholly unable to understand spiritual truths (1 Corinthians 2:14), is unrighteous, does not understand and does not seek for God (Romans 3:10-12), is helpless and ungodly (Rom. 5:6), is a slave to his own sin nature (Romans 6:14-20), is hostile in mind and deed to God (Colossians 1:21), loves darkness rather than light (John 3:19), is dead in his trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1), naturally and rightfully are objects of God's wrath (Ephesians 2:3), and unless elected to salvation by God, are destined to eternal condemnation in Hell—a place of outer darkness, a lake of fire, a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth, a place of eternal separation from the blessings of God, a prison, a place of torment where the worm doesn’t turn or die (Matthew 8:11-12; Mark 9:42-48; Luke 16:19-31; Jude 1:3-13; Revelation 20:11-15).

3. Because of their sinful condition (Romans 6:14-20), the unregenerate do not and cannot freely choose to believe the gospel (Romans 3:10-12; Romans 6:14-20) and that they cannot come to God unless it has been granted to them, such that no one might boast (1 Corinthians 1:17-20; John 1:13), from the Father (John 6:65) who appoints them to eternal life (Acts 13:48 ) and grants that they believe (Philippians 1:29).

4. God owes no person mercy or grace, only justice. Grace is getting what you don't deserve and mercy is not getting what you do. God in His love and mercy and out of solely the kind intention of His own will (Ephesians 1:5), from before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4), elected (Mark 13:20; Romans 8:33), chose (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14), and predestined (Ephesians 1:5,11) some of the lost to salvation and left the others to go their natural way, to eternal damnation (Ephesians 2:3).

5. God's sovereign predestination of the elect was not based upon God looking into the future to see who would choose Him (this would mean that God learned) for no one would choose Him because they are slaves to their sinful natures (Romans 3:10-12; Romans 6:14-20), full of evil (Mark 7:21-23), enemies of God (Romans 5:10), with nothing good dwelling in them (Romans 7:18 ), hateful, disobedient, and enslaved to their lusts (Titus 3:3). Instead, the election of God was wholly unconditional, based upon His decree, plan, and purpose; it is the expression of His will and good pleasure, not a response to man's free-will choices. (Deuteronomy 7:6-7, Isaiah 55:11, John 6:44, John 15:16, Acts 13:48, Romans 8:28-30, Romans 9:11-13, 1 Corinthians 1:26-29, Ephesians 1:3-5, Ephesians 2:4-7, 2 Timothy 1:9)

6. The elect's believing is based solely on the grace of God (Ephesians 1:7; Ephesians 2:8 ), not the will of man (John 1:13; Romans 9:13), and not based upon any foreseen goodness in man (Romans 9:11-13). If God elected based upon the foreseen goodness or choice of someone, then God would be a respecter of persons. God's decisions are according to His own perfectly holy will, His decrees according to His own purpose (Ephesians 1:4-5), because God is not a respecter of persons (Romans 2:11).

7. Furthermore, those who receive Christ (John 1:12) are justified by faith alone (sola fide) (Romans 5:1), through grace alone (sola gratia) (Ephesians 2:8; Galatians 3:6-11), in Christ alone (solus Christus) (John 14:6(John 14:6; 1 Timothy 2:5-6; Colossians 1:13-18 ), all due strictly to the glory of God alone (soli Deo gloria) (1 Corinthians 10:31; 1 Pete 4:11; Revelation 1:6; 2 Peter 3:1; Ephesians 3:21; Revelation 7:12; Romans 11:36).

8. God loves all peoples of the world (Matthew 5:43-48; John 3:16), not just the Jews (John 7:35; Romans 1:16; Romans 2:10), and gave His Son as a propitiation (1 John 4:10), not only for the Jews to whom the Son was sent (Matthew 15:24; Acts 13:46), but also for all peoples of the whole world (1 John 2:2), that is, both Jews and Gentiles (Romans 1:16).

9. As many as receive Christ (John 1:12) do so because they have been appointed to eternal life (Acts 13:48 ), granted that they believe (Philippians 1:29), granted that they repent (2 Timothy 2:25), and caused to be born again (1 Peter 1:3), not by their own wills (John 1:13).

10. The atoning work of Jesus who is God in flesh, fully God and fully man, (John 1:1,14; John 8:40; John 8:58; Colossians 2:9), the second person of the Triune Godhead (John 1:1-3; John 10:30; Philippians 2:5-7; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:3), who in His humiliation became sin on our behalf (2 Corinthians 5:21), who bore our sins in His body on the cross (1 Peter 2:24), who died, was buried, and rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:3-4), in the same body that He died in (John 2:19-21; Luke 24:39; John 20:27), whose sacrifice was sufficient to save all, but was intended only for the elect and therefore, Jesus only bore the sins of the elect (John 10:11,15; Romans 5:18; 2 Corinthians 5:14; Psalm 34:22; Isaiah 53:8; Matthew 1:21;Matthew 20:28; Luke 1:68; John 3:16; John 10:14 -18; John 17:2,6,9; Acts 20:28; Romans 5:8-9; Galatians 3:13; Ephesians 5:25; Hebrews 10:14; Titus 2:14; Revelation 5:9).

11. God, by His irresistible grace (Ezekiel 11:19-20; John 5:24; John 6:37-39,44; Romans 8:8; Romans 8:30; Ephesians 2:1-10; Philippians 2:12-13; Colossians 2:13; James 1:18; Titus 3:5; 1 John 5:1; 1 John 3:7, John 1:12-13), first regenerates the hearts (Ezekiel 36:26-27) and minds of the unsaved so that they are then able to respond to the Gospel message and then, by faith, they receive Christ as is evidenced in the fruit of the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 5:22-23), the third person of the Triune Godhead, and that they are born again not of their own wills, but of God's will (John 1:13) who has caused them to be born again (1 Peter 1:3).

12. Because the salvation of the elect is completely grounded in Christ, they cannot fall away (John 10:27-28; 1 John 2:19; Isaiah 43:1-3; Jeremiah 32:40; John 3:36; John 10:28; Romans 8:35-39; Ephesians 1:13-14; Ephesians 2:10; Philippians 1:6; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24; 2 Timothy 1:12b & 4:18; 1 Peter 1:4-5; Jude 24-25) and will love God, that is, will obey God (1 John 5:3).

13. The innately perspicuous Scripture and the Scripture alone is authoritative for the faith and the practice of the believer (sola Scriptura). "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness." (2 Timothy 3:16). If something is inspired, that is God-breathed (theopnuestos), and God is perfect, then what He has delivered is also perfectly true and infallible. Inspiration is not just a stirring of the mind of the author, it was the very means by which the author's wrote, and accurately wrote, exactly what God wanted written. The authors of the Scriptures were supernaturally influenced, and divinely superintended for the exact words that they used. The authors clearly wanted to communicate God's messages to His creation (2 Peter 1:20-21; Jeremiah 1:9; Exodus 4:22; Genesis 15:4; Exodus 17:14; 2 Corinthians 13:3; 1 Corinthians 2:13; 1 Corinthians 14:37). The Bible alone, and the Bible in its entirety, is the Word of God written and is therefore inerrant in the autographs. When all the facts are known and proper interpretations are applied, the Scriptures are completely true in all that they assert or affirm, including doctrine, morality, social, life, or physical sciences.

In summary, I am a five-point Calvinist Christian, infralapsarian, inerrantist, moderately preterist, rapture at the Final Judgment, paedo-baptistic (not for salvation), cessationalist, and covenantal.

If you have something similar, I would also like to read it.

Shall I next expect some fruit inspection requests to be forthcoming? Sigh.

AMR
 
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Robert Pate

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Banned
A nice try, yet one that was not unanticipated. :AMR:

When one considers the possible logical orderings of God's decree, one may assume there is the decision to create, to actively permit the fall with the ruin of all posterity, the election to salvation of certain ones from the fallen human race, leaving of others in their native corruption and misery, the sending of of Our Lord into the world as the Mediator and surety of the elect, the effectual calling of the elect and their justification, sanctification, and glorification. The lump of clay contemplated in God's hands was a fallen lump of clay, from which God's mercy and justice were made manifest. Nothing here implies foreseen merit or demerit of an individual, but merely God's good pleasure to elect a great multitude no man can number and leave the rest in their sinful state all for nothing but His own glory.


When it was said of John the Baptist that "There went out unto him all the country of Judea, and all they of Jerusalem; and they were baptized of him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins," (Mark 1:5), we know that not each and every individual did so respond.

We read that after Peter and John had healed the lame man at the door of the temple, "all men glorified God for that which was done" (Acts 4:21). Again, we know this does not mean each and every person.

Jesus told his disciples that they would be "hated of all men" for His name's sake, (Luke 21:17). We know this does not mean each and every person for the emergent church contained actual believers.

And when Jesus said, "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself," (John 12:32), Our Lord certainly did not mean that every individual of mankind would be so drawn, else we have Judas now in heaven as but one example demonstrating the foolishness of such a notion. Rather what He did mean was that Jews and Gentiles, men of all nations and races, would be drawn to Him. And that is what we see is actually happening. And while the topic presents itself, drawing is not hand-wringing wooing in lachrymose hope, but an effectual dragging. :AMR:

Likewise, in 1 Corinthians 15:22 we read, "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be make alive." This verse is often quoted to prove unlimited or universal atonement. Rather the honest reader understands this to mean "For as all born in Adam die, so also all born again in Christ shall be alive."

And so on... http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-John-Calvin&p=4568222&viewfull=1#post4568222

It only suits you to declare words carrying greater than their context will bear in order to make sarcastic and very weak assertions.

AMR

Why didn't God predestinate everyone to be saved? Why just some and not all?

The truth of the matter is that he didn't predestinate anyone to be saved. If he did that would make him unjust. God is off of the hook when it comes to being responsible for man's salvation. This is why Paul wrote, "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

God provides, but he imposes it on no one.
 

Nanja

Well-known member
Why didn't God predestinate everyone to be saved? Why just some and not all?

Because God has the right to make His creatures for His Purpose, whatever He chooses.
It's proof that God does not desire all men without exception to be saved!

Job 23:13-14
13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

Rom. 9:15-23
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,


Dan. 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

These scriptures depict the True God with whom you are at variance, Pate.

Woe unto you!

~~~~~
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned

Because God has the right to make His creatures for His Purpose, whatever He chooses.
It's proof that God does not desire all men without exception to be saved!

Job 23:13-14
13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

Rom. 9:15-23
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,


Dan. 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

These scriptures depict the True God with whom you are at variance, Pate.

Woe unto you!

~~~~~


You have a warped, perverted view of the nature and character of God.

The God of Calvinism does not exist. Romans 9:22 is the "What if scripture" it is not what God is or does. It plainly says "What if".

Romans 9:15. Is about God that shows mercy and not what man does.

Your real problem is that you are not saved.
 

Nanja

Well-known member
You have a warped, perverted view of the nature and character of God.

The God of Calvinism does not exist. Romans 9:22 is the "What if scripture" it is not what God is or does. It plainly says "What if".

Romans 9:15. Is about God that shows mercy and not what man does.

Your real problem is that you are not saved.



Pate does not believe that all of the scriptures comprise the very Word of God 2 Tim. 3:16.

Will see him soon, at the Judgment 1 Cor. 6:2a !

~~~~~
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
You have a warped, perverted view of the nature and character of God.

The God of Calvinism does not exist. Romans 9:22 is the "What if scripture" it is not what God is or does. It plainly says "What if".

Romans 9:15. Is about God that shows mercy and not what man does.

Your real problem is that you are not saved.

True.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Why didn't God predestinate everyone to be saved? Why just some and not all?

The truth of the matter is that he didn't predestinate anyone to be saved. If he did that would make him unjust. God is off of the hook when it comes to being responsible for man's salvation. This is why Paul wrote, "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

God provides, but he imposes it on no one.

Invalid comments and promoting salvation by works, by what a person does !
 
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