Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
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Lon
Well-known member
John 15:18 It 'looks' like it is a neg-rep for Jesus, not me. That's the incredible sad thing. The passage from Matthew is Jesus' words, not mine. It 'seems' to me, the scriptures speak for themselves and we can't argue with them lest we find ourselves against Our Lord God Jesus Christ. I pray he takes a moment to see whose coats he is holding. Acts 7:58; 22:20
I wouldn't read those.
Derf
Well-known member
This is probably not worth the post, but here goes:
You said:
So I looked it up in a dictionary and showed you that it can have more than one meaning, and you replied:
And then you write the post above, which includes the statement:
Of course I'm not going to find a dictionary that says "Perish doesn't mean to die". Dictionaries don't give non-definitions. But, since I found a dictionary where, in at least one definition, "perish" doesn't mean "to die", and in the first place I looked, and since genuineoriginal jumped in to help (thank you GU) with a Greek/English dictionary that also had definitions that didn't mean "to die" (including even the very FIRST definition; quoted and emphasized below for those interested), then I've already (prior to your last post) provided you with what you said you wanted me to do in this most recent post. But you rejected it. If you reject what you requested each time it's provided, I don't know what else to do for you--you're arguing with yourself.
If you want to call yourself a brick wall, please don't complain about the unflattering epithets.
Zeke
Well-known member
Especially if its properly interpreted to deal with the right kingdom being cleaned up, Romans seven and Luke 17 reveals the inward application was, and still is the intent, the same intent hidden all through out the scripture.
Extroverting them is good for an Academic boast for the ego, promoting a literal veil that induces a mental Schizophrenia inflicted by using the old adage of tell a lie long enough and it finds roots, which is ECT created by this worlds religious machine that claims exclusive rights to translation, and interpretation, embraces and pushes a Jeckle and Hyde misfit as being a good quality to have in a Saviour figure that forgot to read his own press clippings on a more excellent way 1Cor 13:1-13, Instead his literal minded followers keep trying to apply eternal lipstick on some bare rudimentary teachings that where never meant to be taken literally once you get past the elementary level of the Elitist SS mentality found all through this worlds rulers, and the religious side kicks that push the same mentality, Grace and Peace of coarse if you have the mark.
Isn't that always the case? Jn 8:37 :juggle:
That's right. When you hear: that's just your interpretation:sozo2: --that means I reject said truth
"Every verse of the Bible means exactly what the author intended it to mean..." Full text: How to Interpret the Bible by Darrell Ferguson
See:
Hermeneutics
One clown :zakath: around here (Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10) said: appeal to authority :sozo2: --referring to God.
Isn't that the point? Jn 1:1-3
GuySmiley
Well-known member
It doesn't, but I wont neg rep you, lol.
None of those verses say that unbelievers will be eternally consciously tormented in hell. The devil, the beast, and the false prophet will be. Smoke will rise forever. Its another step to assume all unbelievers will be also. What we don't have is a verse or verses in context that say the unsaved will be eternally consciously tormented in hell by a plain straightforward reading.
To believe that you have to redefine life to mean with God, and death to mean separation from God.
On the other hand, we have a collection of verses where the plain everyday reading says only believers get eternal life, and the unsaved get a collection of words that seem to mean they are burned up and gone. The sticking point to me is that unbelievers get something in contrast to eternal life. Being eternally consciously tormented would be eternal life, though sucky.
genuineoriginal
New member
Exactly.
"Eternal Conscious Torment" is not a biblical doctrine, in the case of the King James Bible you are viewing a translation error: "for--ever and ever", should really be translated to "to--ever and ever". The difference when you use the word "to", is that "Torment" is translated "To", "Rejoicing". Rather than "Torment" going on "For", eternity.
Forget I even said anything about that, its not my style. We need to view this a different way:
Two Witnesses Summary = Ending "Eternal Conscious Torment"
(http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?116663-The-Antichrist-Equation-%28s%29)
There are Two Contradictions in the Bible, and Two Apostles that Betrayed Jesus Christ:
1. Jehoiachin's Reign of 8 or 18 years.(Jesse No Eighth Son, 1 Chronicles 2:15).
2. Solomon's Stalls of 4,000 or 40,000.(Lazarus in Tomb for 4 Days, John 11:17).
1. Apostle Peter betrays Jesus at the "Clucking Three Time, that identified those condemned by Jesus" (Three Days of Darkness - Global Euthanasia)
2. Apostle Judas betrays Jesus for "Wormwood, dipping his hand in the dish" (Star Wormwood - Mark of the Beast)
(195 Days in which God resolves the Two Contradictions of the Bible by the Two Witnesses/Antichrist, ending the doctrine of "Eternal Conscious Torment")
1. 42 Days of Tribulation that calls for repentance of (Aaron), Apostle Peter tried to make "Blood Sacrifice of Genetic Dan". (4 Genetic Lines Terminated)
2. 153 Days of Star Wormwood that calls the "Last Remnant" from the Heart of Judah (USA) into the New Universe. (8th Day of Creation)
1. Apostle Peter = Berodachbaladan of 2 Kings 20:12 = Blood Sacrifice of Genetic Dan of 195,000. (Acts 20:8-9, must be paid by "Sign of Antipas" completion, this is the law, or your Genetic Line and Clergy is termniated, we discussed)
2. Apostle Judas = Zaphnathpaaneah of Gen. 41:45 = Jewish People used to identify the "Heart of Judah/Zion" which is the place of the "Events of Revelation (195 Days)". (Lamentations 2:18, 1 Kings 11:23, Rev. 5:5, the "Diaspora of the Jewish people completes the identification of the "Heart of Judah/Zion/USA" for the "Events of Revelation (195 Days)
God uses two mechanisms to convict all the nations of sin, Genetic Dan's Suicide is one, (Isiah 21:12-13 can be translated to the 4 Genetic Lines of Genetic Dan, that kills at the "Sign of Divorce/Antipas", denoted by skin color), the Diaspora of the Jewish People is another, (Acts 13:6 can be translated to God will only give the "Sign of Divorce/Antipas" to the nation that has the most Jewish People), these are two contradictions in the Gospel's Program, only two no more, and these are resolved with the "Two Witnesses" (God and Babylon), Confirming the Covenant with the Antichrist.
For thousands of years, God has exclusively used, Aaron to "War with God" and to convict by "Genetic Dan". For thousands of years, God has exclusively used, Joseph to Lead the Jewish People in part, until the end of time. There is no sin with Judas only a conflict of interest, however with Peter, there is a grievous sin that must be resolved. You were officially given 2 days, or until the Antichrist is given his "Coat of Many Colors", or etc., so don't keep him waiting, to resolve these contradictions with the exchanges of Nuclear Discharges, so I suggest you do that, otherwise you will be back to the reality of saying goodbye to all your people and your way of life and coming here to the USA as your only means of applying to the law, according to the law. Love and Blessings (10hour walk tomorrow, to reduce the level of joseph as a result of your sin, and everything else that is done in terms of force against the Antichrist).
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Derf
Well-known member
Now that, my friends, is how to kill a thread! There's no arguing with perfect chaos.
(So as the people have said, Nostradamus was executed with the absolute expediency of God exercised by the King, because he implied the people's needs were not begin accommodated in his epistles. Shortly after his return with great power and authority only to complete the Lost Plates of Nostradamus, he was greeted with only garbage and sewage. We can't really trust history's claims at 100%, when about 1/4 of Europe's population was dumped into the sea, so we don't how that happened or what needed to be done at that time. Needless to say, Nehemiah 13:5-8 voices the declaration of the King of Babylon by the space of 2 and 3, indicating our discrepancies between the 42/40 Days of Revelation for Rainbow, and 153/150 days of Revelation for Darkness. He should be easy to find, but after his is executed the Antichrist, God will have no reason to remove the destructive effects of the gravity waves during this rainbow period from earth, so perhaps it needs to done) The Gospels Implied Answer to the "End of Eternal Conscious Torment"? The Figure of 2300 from Daniel 8, we can tie to the "Son of Perdition", perhaps its just as simple as saying "3/23/2016" is the day of Daniel 2300, when all hell of torments begins to break loose ... they have made a tremendous mistake is whitewashing the sincere warning of the Antichrist in what must be done.
Lon
Well-known member
No dishonesty and nope, I don't hit the neg button on an uncontrollable emote either. Dishonest? No, there was nothing but scripture and a question. At the time I responded, either there was a bug in the software, or I didn't see your comments. Regardless, a neg rep is a childish emote. You go ahead and spin your own poor behavior and emoting as you like. I'm not the one whose behavior is questionable. Again, there was nothing but two sets of scriptures and a question. "Doesn't this end the thread?" "No," would have been a better response than the kindergarten level negging, no? Grow up, this kind of behavior just makes me want to ignore you as not worth the time or headache. If that was your childish desire, there you go.
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way 2 go
Well-known member
if by destroy you mean ruin like in the the following verses
which use the exact same word for destroy apollumi
Luk 9:56 For the Son of Man has not come to destroy men's lives, but to save. And they went to another village.
Rom 14:15 But if your brother is grieved with your food, you no longer walk according to love. Do not with your food destroy him for whom Christ died.
then yes God will eternally punish the unrighteous
Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
way 2 go
Well-known member
God does not believe in karma
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Mar 4:24 And he said to them, "Pay attention to what you hear: with the measure you use, it will be measured to you, and still more will be added to you.
Mar 4:25 For to the one who has, more will be given,and from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away."
Christians receive heaven which is gift we can not earn
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
the unrighteous are dead and receive death as their reward
Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment
way 2 go
Well-known member
Looks like you completely missed the most important part
G622
ἀπόλλυμι apóllymi, ap-ol'-loo-mee; from G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully, literally or figuratively:—destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
way 2 go
Well-known member
? Further evidence that "Eternal Conscious Torment" is not biblical? The Women is given authority over the Man. The description is not carnal, in this instance of the Gospel, its referring to "Joseph the Blessing". When God has "Joseph the Women" in view, he is viewing the "Express Image of Jesus", in the sense that he has the full potential the Gospel affords mankind when it is completed in view. (this is not carnal, it has nothing to do with "male rape/Sui**de by Antichirst", the gospel has not allowed "Joseph" to be born until after Jesus was first incarnated, so the Gospel's references to "Joseph" before Jesus, were largely parables for other activities).
Command to go to Canaan(1), Command to leave Canaan(2):
1. Sarai is visited by the Angels to voice a Blessing then Lot is used to judge sodom and gomorrah
2. Jacob is instructed by his mother to make his hand hairy in order to receive a blessing
Command to go to Egypt(1), Command to leave Egypt(2):
1. Joseph is instructed by Potiphar's Wife to judge the condemned
2. Moses is given the "Rod of Joseph/Staff" and instructed to serve it, in order to deliver the hebrews
Command to go to Jerusalem(1), Command to leave Jerusalem(2):
1. Esther the Queen is used to reprove the law for the hebrews
2. Lazarus is raised from the tomb first and instructs the hebrews to flee to the mountains
Command to go to the USA(1), Command to leave the USA(2)
1. "Babylon the Great" gathers the Hebrews into one Nation described in Revelation
2. "Two Witnesses" confirms the covenant by illustrating the satisfaction of the covenant in Revelation
.................
Joshua 7:21 makes a reference to "Babylon or a Queen/Women", however because God is not using Joshua to identify with Joseph, we may simply be observing a parable of "Esther the Queen". Before Moses died he went up a mountain and opened up something and saw something also, but the bible does not go into detail, it simply slingshots this information. I don't have any other clear cut examples that fits the pattern of a "Woman given Authority as apart of the Gospel discerning he Hebrews for the satisfaction of the Law". Simplest possible terms: in all the examples before the book of revelation, notice "Joseph" is involved in an accounting of the people. In the book of revelation, "Joseph" is finally accounted/numbered with the tribes. Love and Blessings. ("male rape" (keep your hands to yourself, maybe stop mutilating the corpses you are given, in terms of Jacob the hairy hand is a reference to masturba****, Genetic Dan commits suicide by attacking based on this activity, that is what the gospel is reporting) has clouded their judgment, the fact is man does not have a legal right to a sign at any point in time before the Three Days of Darkness, right now the Lord's Body is being glorified).
Command to go to Canaan(1), Command to leave Canaan(2):
1. Sarai is visited by the Angels to voice a Blessing then Lot is used to judge sodom and gomorrah
2. Jacob is instructed by his mother to make his hand hairy in order to receive a blessing
Command to go to Egypt(1), Command to leave Egypt(2):
1. Joseph is instructed by Potiphar's Wife to judge the condemned
2. Moses is given the "Rod of Joseph/Staff" and instructed to serve it, in order to deliver the hebrews
Command to go to Jerusalem(1), Command to leave Jerusalem(2):
1. Esther the Queen is used to reprove the law for the hebrews
2. Lazarus is raised from the tomb first and instructs the hebrews to flee to the mountains
Command to go to the USA(1), Command to leave the USA(2)
1. "Babylon the Great" gathers the Hebrews into one Nation described in Revelation
2. "Two Witnesses" confirms the covenant by illustrating the satisfaction of the covenant in Revelation
.................
Joshua 7:21 makes a reference to "Babylon or a Queen/Women", however because God is not using Joshua to identify with Joseph, we may simply be observing a parable of "Esther the Queen". Before Moses died he went up a mountain and opened up something and saw something also, but the bible does not go into detail, it simply slingshots this information. I don't have any other clear cut examples that fits the pattern of a "Woman given Authority as apart of the Gospel discerning he Hebrews for the satisfaction of the Law". Simplest possible terms: in all the examples before the book of revelation, notice "Joseph" is involved in an accounting of the people. In the book of revelation, "Joseph" is finally accounted/numbered with the tribes. Love and Blessings. ("male rape" (keep your hands to yourself, maybe stop mutilating the corpses you are given, in terms of Jacob the hairy hand is a reference to masturba****, Genetic Dan commits suicide by attacking based on this activity, that is what the gospel is reporting) has clouded their judgment, the fact is man does not have a legal right to a sign at any point in time before the Three Days of Darkness, right now the Lord's Body is being glorified).
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freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Reality check
Reality check
No one has to believe in 'karma' (action and its attending consequences) for it to exist, since it is self-evident. Life is a series of movements, cause and effect.
Reality check
No one has to believe in 'karma' (action and its attending consequences) for it to exist, since it is self-evident. Life is a series of movements, cause and effect.