genuineoriginal
New member
It would be nice if all marriages worked like that.
Is marital rape scripturally defensible?
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genuineoriginal
New member
No.
A woman cannot commit rape, according to the definition I posted earlier.
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Woman Wielding Machete Forced Ex to Have Sex: Cops
A 19-year-old Montana woman was arrested Friday after allegedly lying in wait for her ex-boyfriend with a machete and forcing him to have sex with her.
. . .
Mears, who was also charged with felony strangulation against the same man in April, now faces six new charges, including assault, burglary, and more.
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Arthur Brain
Well-known member
They aren't arguing that they have a right to know what goes on in the bedrooms of married couples, they're pointing out the fact that if someone forces their spouse into sex against their will that they've raped their partner. They've not only "violated their marriage contract", they've violated their partner which is a crime, just as if they were subjecting them to violence or abuse.
Nobody, "feminist" or otherwise, has attempted to redefine rape. The definition is clear and it applies across the board, whether people are married or not. That's fact and it's law.
I think people like you who think that forcing your wife to have sex against her will are far more vile.
Rape is forcing somebody to have sex against their will. It can be violent or it can be coercive. In either case, if you force your spouse to have sex when they do not want to, it is rape.
Assuming facts not in evidence. For the record, your statement about me is false.
She should have been. It can be incredibly difficult to prove rape against a man but that does not mean that it does not happen. Your case is a prime example of a woman forcing a man to have sex against his will - rape by definition.
genuineoriginal
New member
No, they merely assume that they have the right to know what goes on in the bedrooms of married couples.
Sex within a marriage is not rape, even if it is forced sex.
Forcing a spouse into sex against their will is not acceptable under most circumstances, but criminalizing it by redefining rape is inexcusable under all circumstances since that damages the institution of marriage.
Yes.
Calling any sex within a marriage "rape" and making it into a criminal offense is the true crime, because it damages the institution of marriage, which will in turn cause the downfall of the entire civilization, since marriage is the foundation on which society is built.
No sex between a husband and wife was criminally chargeable as rape until rape was redefined in the 1960s due to the lobbying of feminists.
That is a fact.
I have no need to know what goes on in a married couples private life. But if a married woman comes forward to say that her husband has raped her, she absolutely has the right to press charges against him.
genuineoriginal
New member
How dare you lie about me like that.
You vile disgusting pig.
My argument is that the redefinition of "rape" to include forced sex within a marriage is destructive to society because it undermines the institution of marriage.
Do you know what happens when a man is falsely accused of rape by his wife as part of her divorce strategy?
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Lawyers alarmed at criminal charges in family cases
“Over the past 10 years, I have noticed an increase in the prevalence of these types of offences with a disturbing trend to use the criminal process as a quick means to obtain exclusive possession of the matrimonial home and thwart custody and access to the children of the relationships,” says Neuberger.
When someone makes a complaint, police must lay charges.
In family litigation, a criminal charge is like a red flag even when the case is still before the court. Additionally, the introduction of the criminal process can throw a wrench into any friendly resolution of the matter.
“So if you want to play the game, ‘I want custody, I want to control the situation,’ often people will take the position, ‘I’m going to call the police,’” says Maltz.
Immediately, the accused leaves the home and can’t communicate with the spouse and the children or come within a certain distance of the house. That makes the issues of custody and access more difficult.
As a result, according to lawyers, the spouse making the allegation has an edge in the case. With exclusive access, the children themselves could become pawns in the case.
Delays in the criminal system complicate the situation as the charge can easily loom for a year. By the time it’s over, says Maltz, the damage is done.
“How do you combat that?” he asks.
As both a criminal and family law practitioner, Daniel worries the situation could lead to further abuse of the criminal justice system.
“It usually comes about when there’s a matrimonial breakdown and then police are called,” she says. “I’ve had a lot of criminal clients that have had proceedings against them . . . and family court proceedings follow.”
It’s difficult, she adds, to discern fact from fiction. Clearly, the issue of abuse between couples is one the courts take very seriously. But it’s also clear to many lawyers that some people use the process to further their own family law case.
“Unless you personally are witness to what the situation was . . . you don’t know 100 per cent,” says Daniel. “However, you can assess the situation and have a good judgment.”
At the end of the day, it’s the subjects of many of those disputes who suffer the greatest impacts, says family lawyer Kristy Maurina.
“We are dealing with real lives and the interests of children,” she says. “It can have a detrimental impact on the children who are already dealing with the pain of separation and are now faced with a loving and involved parent who is suddenly not allowed to see them anymore.”
For those involved in a marital dispute, the damage is immediate once someone levies a criminal charge.
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Lawyers alarmed at criminal charges in family cases
“Over the past 10 years, I have noticed an increase in the prevalence of these types of offences with a disturbing trend to use the criminal process as a quick means to obtain exclusive possession of the matrimonial home and thwart custody and access to the children of the relationships,” says Neuberger.
When someone makes a complaint, police must lay charges.
In family litigation, a criminal charge is like a red flag even when the case is still before the court. Additionally, the introduction of the criminal process can throw a wrench into any friendly resolution of the matter.
“So if you want to play the game, ‘I want custody, I want to control the situation,’ often people will take the position, ‘I’m going to call the police,’” says Maltz.
Immediately, the accused leaves the home and can’t communicate with the spouse and the children or come within a certain distance of the house. That makes the issues of custody and access more difficult.
As a result, according to lawyers, the spouse making the allegation has an edge in the case. With exclusive access, the children themselves could become pawns in the case.
Delays in the criminal system complicate the situation as the charge can easily loom for a year. By the time it’s over, says Maltz, the damage is done.
“How do you combat that?” he asks.
As both a criminal and family law practitioner, Daniel worries the situation could lead to further abuse of the criminal justice system.
“It usually comes about when there’s a matrimonial breakdown and then police are called,” she says. “I’ve had a lot of criminal clients that have had proceedings against them . . . and family court proceedings follow.”
It’s difficult, she adds, to discern fact from fiction. Clearly, the issue of abuse between couples is one the courts take very seriously. But it’s also clear to many lawyers that some people use the process to further their own family law case.
“Unless you personally are witness to what the situation was . . . you don’t know 100 per cent,” says Daniel. “However, you can assess the situation and have a good judgment.”
At the end of the day, it’s the subjects of many of those disputes who suffer the greatest impacts, says family lawyer Kristy Maurina.
“We are dealing with real lives and the interests of children,” she says. “It can have a detrimental impact on the children who are already dealing with the pain of separation and are now faced with a loving and involved parent who is suddenly not allowed to see them anymore.”
For those involved in a marital dispute, the damage is immediate once someone levies a criminal charge.
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genuineoriginal
New member
No, she doesn't.
It is a "he says, she says" matter that should never result in criminal charges.
No more so than you. I haven't seen you say anything that leads me to believe I have lied about you.
It does not such thing. It simply recognizes that marriage does not give a spouse the freedom to force sex on the other.
Criminal charges are frequently used in divorce cases as a tactic. Rape. Child molestation. And if somebody makes false accusations then they should face criminal charges of their own.
If a spouse is raped then they need to take steps to document it. GO to the ER. Take pictures of your own. Keep a journal. There is a level of proof that must be met.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Once again, no they don't. They're simply informing you of the fact that when someone forces sex onto their spouse against their will then it's rape. You need to start reading what is written.
:AMR:
It's not acceptable in any circumstances and yes it is rape, pure and simple.
Yes, it's rape.
Once again, learn to read what is written. Nobody is calling any sex within a marriage rape but simply where one partner has forced their spouse into sex against their will. That is rape and that is a crime, fact.
It should have been changed long before that as forced sex on someone is rape, fact.
De nada, though to be clear a husband who has forced himself on the wife wouldn't be the husband I'm speaking to in terms of counselling. That fellow would be in jail. Counselling is for those who are denied a functioning part of the marital union consistently without recourse. At that point there's obviously a problem that isn't being dealt with by the couple alone.
genuineoriginal
New member
Then you are blind.
There are a lot better ways to recognize that than to criminalize it as rape.
When the institution of marriage is undermined like that, it leads to the destruction of the society.
That happens so rarely that you are more likely to win the lottery.
There is no better way to recognize rape than to recognize it as a criminal act.
Rape is a type of sexual assault usually involving sexual intercourse or other forms of sexual penetration carried out against a person without that person's consent. The act may be carried out by physical force, coercion, abuse of authority, or against a person who is incapable of giving valid consent, such as one who is unconscious, incapacitated, has an intellectual disability or is below the legal age of consent. The term rape is sometimes used interchangeably with the term sexual assault.
That is a pretty good definition of rape. Consent is the key. Wives can be raped by their husbands.
Allowing one spouse to freely rape the other does far FAR more to undermine marriage than pressing criminal charges for a vile act. I do not understand why you think the raping of a spouse spouse makes for a stronger marriage.
True but ultimately meaningless in this discussion.
genuineoriginal
New member
You seem to be having a problem understanding the difference between marriage as an societal institution, marriage as a contract between two people, and whatever that other thing is that you seem to think marriage is or should be.
As a societal institution, marriage is about the formation of families to produce the next generations of the society. The strength of each individual marriage is passed down to the children in the family and out into society to create a strong society. When a society makes it easy to break the marital bonds, then each individual marriage is weaker, and that weakness is passed down to the children in the family and out into society to weaken society.
As a contract between two people, marriage is about the choice made for two people to live together in a sexual relationship for the rest of their natural lives, sharing their resources, and supporting each other in good times and bad, in sickness and in health. A marriage contract is different from all other partnership contracts because of the sexual relationship that is the core agreement being made and the life-long commitment. The two spouses should be accorded the dignity of resolving their conflicts about their sexual relationship without outside interference.
Whatever you think marriage is seems to be some temporary agreement for two people to live as roommates for a short time period before they go their separate ways.
I don't think that.
That thought came from your own head.
Why do you think that way?
In either case, in what way does allowing one spuse to force sex on the other create a stronger institution or personal relationship?
How does legal rape make this institution better?
The only time there would be outside "interference" is when one of the spouses seeks it. It is perfectly reasonable for a spouse to seek outside assistance to escape and abusive relationship. They can, and should, seek legal assistance when they are being physically abused.
I never said nor implied that. I believe that marriage is, ideally, for life. That said, I do not believe that God ever intended that a person must remain in an abusive marriage.
Actually no, that came from you saying that there is no such thing as rape in a marriage.
genuineoriginal
New member
How do you get from me saying "there is no such thing as rape in marriage" to you thinking "the raping of a spouse spouse makes for a stronger marriage."?
Its not that far of a step. You don't believe that rape is possible in a marriage so to you, if a husband likes to routinely beat his wife to force her to have sex, you think that is perfectly okay. In your view, that is just a part of the contract between them.
genuineoriginal
New member
It is a giant leap.
No, I don't think that is perfectly okay.
Why would you lie about something like that?
How do you get from me stating "that is a violation of the marital contract" to you thinking it is "a part of the contract"?
Are you on drugs?
You started this by stating rape is not possible in a marriage. By extension, you must be okay with it when it does happen. You are not speaking out against evil so you are supporting it.
Straight up yes or no: Is it okay for a husband to physically force his wife to have sex with him against her will?
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