Theology Club: Is MAD doctrine correct?

[godrulz]

Smoking cigars is not a sin.


Why the delineation between the two groups.


There is a reason I have the twit on ignore.

Why do some go to Africa and why do some go to China with the gospel? How does that make it two distinct, different gospels?!

 

[godrulz]

How can we who have died to sin still be in it? YOU CAN'T! We who have died have been freed from sin. All things are legal, not all things are helpful.

You think you can sin your way out of salvation, you are still a pervert, and will likely always be one.

Unbelief is a unique sin. I do not think I can sin my way out of salvation (straw man), but I do believe it is possible to apostasize, fall away, revert from faith to unbelief, become a Muslim, atheist, etc. johnw thinks you can worship Satan and hate Jesus and still be a Christian because OSAS. I am not the idiot. You guys are.

Adultery and murder and idolatry are sins whether believer or unbeliever.

The statement you paraphrase was also the Corinthian's wrong view, not Paul's inspired response.

 

[godrulz]

Show us where the 12 preached the death burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ for our justification. Show us where they are looking back on their salvation they already have and are dead to sin. All things are legal. Go, on. Show us.

You can quote any "New Testament" book outside of Acts 9-Philemon.

Everything post-cross is the one true gospel that Paul preached. Dividing the NT into a two class caste system is foreign until Bullinger, Stam, etc. It is bad theology/exegesis.

 

[Nick M]

Everything post-cross is the one true gospel that Paul preached. Dividing the NT into a two class caste system is foreign until Bullinger, Stam, etc. It is bad theology/exegesis.

Once again, you have not told us what James really means when he says rhetorically, "was not Abraham justified when he offered up his son?"....

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Once again, you have not told us what James really means when he says rhetorically, "was not Abraham justified when he offered up his son?"....

rulz needs to tell us how a blasphemer of the Holy Ghost got saved (Paul)

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

johnw thinks you can worship Satan and hate Jesus and still be a Christian because OSAS. I am not the idiot. You guys are.

waiting for scripture to demonstrate the Spirit unbaptizing someone out of the Body

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Why do some go to Africa and why do some go to China with the gospel? How does that make it two distinct, different gospels?!

dare you go back to Genesis and find the gospel of circumcision and gospel of uncircumcision, both originating with Abraham

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Romans 3:30King James Version (KJV)

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Hello?

Again,

Is walking by a fire the same as walking through a fire?

Cue the cliche about greek prepositions

 

[Nick M]

Cue the cliche about greek prepositions

I can't condense 30 years of study from a variety of sources into a few posts… any credible commentary or systematic theology will give you the arguments and verses. Google may also help.

 

[Nick M]

waiting for scripture to demonstrate the Spirit unbaptizing someone out of the Body

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

How about this?

 

[Nick M]

Two target audiences is NOT proof of two different gospel messages (Gal. 2:7 demarcation of ministry, not divergent messages).

Acts 13

46 Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.

Paul was sent to Jew and Gentile. In that order. Sorry, not just two different audiences to start. He went to the gentiles exclusively only after Israel fell.

 

[Nick M]

James 2

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?

James absolutely is saying faith was made perfect by works. And faith alone does not save.

Galatians 3

2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

And Paul is absolutely refuting it, mocking it, saying are you being made perfect by flesh (works)?

Go ahead Brother Vinny. Tell us what they are really saying. Notice I do not treat you like godrulz. Don't let me down.

 

[heir]

Yes, Rom. 4-5 shows that salvation is always by grace, but MAD creates a caste system in the early church post-cross?! The conditions for receiving and remaining in grace before Paul was faith+works, etc., but faith alone after Paul. This is not biblical even in the OT.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

MAD makes a big deal about Paul's gospel

Why wouldn't we? The gospel that Paul preached was not after man. He didn't receive it of man, neither was he taught it, but by revelation of Jesus Christ

Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

Galatians 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

It was before a mystery.


Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

It (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (although no longer to the Jew first and also to the Greek, but to all men)

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to Paul's my gospel, not Peter, James or John's.

Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

 

[Nick M]

I do not think I can sin my way out of salvation (straw man)

So you repent of these statements?

I believe it in context, not as a proof text for your views. Justification is about our initial coming to Christ [/B]when we are declared righteous (legal term) and our past sins are dealt with. At that point of conversion, there are no future sins yet. Reconciliation deals with our past sins. My objection is to think we can persist in sheer rebellion, sin, and disobedience with impunity because non-existent sins have blanket forgiveness just because our past sins were dealt with at justification.

Past sins can be dealt with, but this does not preclude the possibility of heinous future sins, including blasphemy, that cannot be swept under the carpet by a holy God (judgment starts with the house of God; Ananias and Sapp were struck down; I Cor. and I Jn. has temporal judgment of believer's sin by death).

 

[way 2 go]

MAD teaches two gospels post-cross. The so-called circ gospel is a gospel of faith/works.

Is the gospel pre-cross different from your post-cross gospel ?

 

[Bright Raven]

Why does everyone have such a problem with the gospel to the circumcision and the gospel to the uncircumcision.

 

[Brother Vinny]

Why does everyone have such a problem with the gospel to the circumcision and the gospel to the uncircumcision.

I believe I stated my misgivings earlier, and I don't remember anyone addressing them.

 

[Bright Raven]

I believe I stated my misgivings earlier, and I don't remember anyone addressing them.

Why not address it?


Galatians 2:7 King James Version (KJV)

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

 

[Nick M]

Is the gospel pre-cross different from your post-cross gospel ?

Let me check his previous responses/spin. It includes commentary by me.

So, a technical loop hole. Yes, you say they are not saved yet, but the other valid point is that they can lose their salvation by not enduring. Acts 2 says that they were saved

Heb. 12 and I Jn. and Pauline writings contradict you (you dispensationalize away the former and are selective with the latter).

God is holy, not a deaf, dumb, blind idol with amnesia.

So they can lose salvation with sin.

Jn. 3:16; I Jn. 5:11-13; Jn. 1:12 You say this is circ. This is now, not future. Jesus, Peter, John, James taught grace.

Jesus taught grace? Where? James taught grace? Wow.

Transition (Acts 2), we agree.

Transition? You just said Jesus taught grace.

Acts 2 The message is that Jew/Gentiles both come to Christ through the gospel, faith in Christ.

Israel/Judaism is pre-cross

Jesus.... taught grace.

Judaism is grace? Wow. I didn't know sacrficing your best ram without spot or blemish was grace.

 

[Lighthouse]

Why do some go to Africa and why do some go to China with the gospel? How does that make it two distinct, different gospels?!

Imbecile.

It will never get through that thick skull of yours to your amoeba sized excuse for a brain that ethnicity had absolutely nil to do with the delineation between the two groups and the reasons for the differing messages.

You are too exceptionally insipid to ever understand the simplest point that has been repeatedly shoved down your throat.

You are just too stupid to ever get it. There's no point in trying to teach you anything, because you're an idiot.

You will never be smart enough to even know this simple fact. It will not compute in the mush you call a brain. No matter how many times you are told you continue, and will always continue, to make the halfwit argument that ethnicity is the issue.