The only thing I ask people to do is listen and hear what it has to say, they don't have to believe.
Theology Club: Is MAD doctrine correct?
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
Brother Vinny
Active member
Aww, what's the fun in that? You need the passionate heartfelt notion that Everyone must believe as I do to even engage on this board.
Or, at least, you used to. :sheep:
I'm not here to change your mind. Only God can do that.
glorydaz
Well-known member
But, there are lots of differences......not anything to do with translations. Repent and be baptized means one thing to the twelve and another entirely to Paul. Obedience to the commandments vs. the obedience of faith. How do you account for that?
That is certainly a part of it, but not what I preach. All you have to do is preach the gospel and the differences will come out. See the tags on TOL like "paul false gospel". And when it comes to it, you can point out the risen Christ did not tell Paul what he said in the red letters. Since it is obvious they are two different things.
By the way, what do you think rightly divide the word of truth (word of truth = gospel) means?
heir
TOL Subscriber
godrulz is not interested in the truth.
Of course we are all interested in the truth. Your problem is that you lack discernment between truth and error on some points. Rejecting your wrong views is a love of truth, not a disdain for it. :sheep:
You have fallen for ultradispensationalism that is simply not true.
About halfway through, still skeptical.Maybe dispensensationalism doesn't catch with the previously infected? :idunno:
From the very opening, the sermon presupposes the listener is going to indulge the literalist conceit that "rightly dividing" means placing Scripture into nice and tidy containers marked "Israel" and "Church". Maybe this works on the uninitiated, and maybe this sort of approach is more befitting a sermon than a long argument that takes into account possible objections would be. Whatever the case, I'm just not finding myself convinced.
Rightly dividing is a buzz word of MAD proof texted, but not what the verse means. It is not about dispensationalism (of which I am one).
The vast majority of godly Christians have not heard of MAD. The best of conservative, biblical, evangelical scholarship rejects it if they have heard of it
You underestimate the caliber of scholars that God has raised up to keep the sheep from falling for false teaching and ignorance on important subjects. Why should I trust you as an expert on things, and reject those with proven track records and godly character/insights? Eph. 4:11-13 vs internet wannabees with no training or accountability
Google will also help.
Last edited:
heir
TOL Subscriber
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
The word of truth that we are to study to show ourselves approved unto God as workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing is specific. It is the gospel of our salvation!
Ephesians 1:13 KJV In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
It is the gospel of Christ!
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
It (the gospel of Christ) is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (although no longer to the Jew first and also to the Greek, but to all men).
Romans 1:16 KJV For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
So what does Paul mean when he writes to rightly divide it? First of all, there's more than one gospel in your Bible. If you don't separate out the gospel that is "the gospel of YOUR salvation" (as mentioned in Ephesians 1:13 KJV), from others, you could be believing the wrong gospel that is not the gospel that is the power of God to save you in the dispensation of the grace of God.
For example, you could think that your gospel (good news) is that you need to be water baptized for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38 KJV), sell all that you have (Matthew 19:21 KJV, Acts 2:45 KJV), endure to the end to be saved (Matthew 24:13 KJV) wait for the times of refreshing that shall come from the presence of the Lord (the second coming) that your sins may be blotted out (Acts 3:19-21 KJV). But, that's NOT your gospel (good news)! And it is not the the gospel of YOUR salvation, the power of God to save you today!
The gospel that is the power of God to save you is the gospel of Christ; how that Christ died for our sins and that He was buried and was raised again the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV)! It was given by revelation of Jesus Christ to the apostle Paul (Galatians 1:11-12 KJV) to usward (Romans 11:13 KJV). Paul was given the dispensation of the grace of God for YOU gentiles (Ephesians 3:1). Paul was given the form of sound words that we are to hold fast to today (2 Timothy 1:13 KJV). That would be Romans through Philemon.
Our good news must be divided out from other good news in the Bible. Failure or flat out refusal to rightly divide the word of truth causes nothing, but confusion.
2 Timothy 2:15 KJV Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Some people say, "rightly dividing the word of God", but the word of God is already rightly divided. Paul's letters are divided out from the rest in a neat little package all together (the form of sound words). It is put together exactly as the Lord wants it to be.
Also, we need to rightly divide the word of truth in Paul's epistles. For example, there was a time that certain Gentiles (called Greeks in a KJB) had ordinances to keep so as not to offend the Jews, but then in Paul's later epistles when writing to the alien gentile, (who Paul was a prisoner of Jesus Christ for-people like you and me who in time past were: Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV), you can eat anything as the middle wall of partition was broken down (Ephesians 2:14-16). The handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, was taken out of the way, nailed to His cross (Colossians 2:14-16 KJV).
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Oh.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
This answer was too well reasoned and scripture filled. He will never read it! :sheep:
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Also Nick, there is no scriptural basis for cessationism.
Notice how he once again does not tell us what it really means, while saying it doesn't mean what it says.
You do not know that because you do not know exactly what I believe. Look at Galatians 2:7 in the KJV. Then Look at it in nearly any other translation and tell me what you find. No matter what you tell me, Paul is the Apostle to the Gentiles while Peter and the twelve are the Apostles to Israel.
I agree with this as a demarcation of ministry, but two true NT gospel messages in light of the one finished work of Christ is false teaching.
It is interesting that "Study" to show yourselves approved is another KJV limitation. Again, check out other translations to see that it is not limited to Bible study like most think.
There is ONE gospel in the NT post-cross, not two (heir has written nothing to disprove this).
Brother Vinny
Active member
Wow, this thread blossomed. I believe Nick M put the question to me what I think "rightly divide" means.
I believe the phrase "cut it straight," which is IIRC the literal translation, is idiomatic, perhaps borrowed from Paul's side trade as a tentmaker. Many translations render the idiom, "correctly handling," which I think is closer to the intended meaning. If the phrase is idiomatic, there is no more reason to believe "rightly dividing" has anything to do with dividing Scripture by recipient than there is to believe someone who has "lost his marbles" is really someone whose life would be better if he could only find that bag of cat's eyes he misplaced.
I believe the phrase "cut it straight," which is IIRC the literal translation, is idiomatic, perhaps borrowed from Paul's side trade as a tentmaker. Many translations render the idiom, "correctly handling," which I think is closer to the intended meaning. If the phrase is idiomatic, there is no more reason to believe "rightly dividing" has anything to do with dividing Scripture by recipient than there is to believe someone who has "lost his marbles" is really someone whose life would be better if he could only find that bag of cat's eyes he misplaced.