Is Calvinism Wrong?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
GD: *quotes scripture*
B57: FALSE TEACHING FOUND NOWHERE IN SCRIPTURE!!!!!1!
:think:
:mock:
[MENTION=13955]glorydaz[/MENTION]
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TestedandTried
New member
Your point? This is unclear to me. If you are saying predestination is Biblical I agree. I would not agree that one knows as soon as coming to faith that tey are predestined to be saved...can fall away. Even Paul says in Philippians that he hasn't taken hold of it yet...
Philippians 2:13:
13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,
Philippians 2:13:
13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,
I am well aware. Hence the ":mock:".
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Rationalization.
What exactly do you do with Saturday's?
Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
Yes, of course. People are typically unaware of rationalizing that they are doing. It's much easier to see when someone else is doing it.
It's a defense mechanism, not a cardinal sin. You're in no danger of causing me to give up you or anything like that.
The Ten Commandments were given to Israel right along with the rest of the law. Moses was an Israelite as were all the people at the base of that mountain...
Exodus 20:18 Now all the people witnessed the thunderings, the lightning flashes, the sound of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking; and when the people saw it, they trembled and stood afar off. 19 Then they said to Moses, “You speak with us, and we will hear; but let not God speak with us, lest we die.”
20 And Moses said to the people, “Do not fear; for God has come to test you, and that His fear may be before you, so that you may not sin.” 21 So the people stood afar off, but Moses drew near the thick darkness where God was.
22 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel:
20 And Moses said to the people, “Do not fear; for God has come to test you, and that His fear may be before you, so that you may not sin.” 21 So the people stood afar off, but Moses drew near the thick darkness where God was.
22 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel:
God then goes on for another three chapters giving more laws, some of the last of which are Sabbath laws, by the way. What we call the Ten Commandments was just the introduction.
For you to hang on to the Ten Commandments is to let the nose in the tent. I assure you that there's a whole camel attached to that nose!
On what basis?
The law is not simply right and wrong. God is not subject to the law and never has been nor could He be. He is also the only One that is good and, in fact, is goodness itself. He was nailed to a tree to become a curse for us. That language is not accidental. It is intentionally hearkening back to THE curse of THE tree in Eden, the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, the fruit of which is the law. Just as Adam did not need the forbidden fruit to know good and evil, we do not need the law (any of it) to know good and evil, we need God. It wasn't good and evil that was nailed to the cross, it was the alternative to God that was nailed to the cross.
Also, go back again to Romans chapter one....
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
Notice that it isn't the Ten Commandments that are used to condemn the unrighteousness of men!
Deuteronomy 6:25 Then it will be righteousness for us, if we are careful to observe all these commandments before the Lord our God, as He has commanded us.’
Isaiah 48:18 Oh, that you had heeded My commandments! Then your peace would have been like a river, And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.
Mark 10:17 Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?”
18 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. 19 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ”
Isaiah 48:18 Oh, that you had heeded My commandments! Then your peace would have been like a river, And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.
Mark 10:17 Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?”
18 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. 19 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ”
Resting in Him,
Clete
Right Divider
Body part
Paul is NOT talking about salvation in Philippians 3:13
There is no "falling away" with the body of Christ.
Eph 1:11-14 KJV In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: (12) That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. (13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (14) Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
We in the body are SEALED. That's permanent.
Eph 4:30 KJV And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Paul is not talking about taking hold of salvation in these verses.
He is referring to his future laying hold of the resurrection of the physical body which, by the way, is guaranteed by the sealing of the Holy Spirit at the point of trusting in Christ for one's right standing before GOD.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Just saw this post after I posted mine.
What it says is what it says and those who rightly divide generally come to the same understanding.
Rosenritter
New member
I have B57 on ignore status because I already know if I click to expand it is only going to say "False teaching found nowhere in scripture."
Rosenritter
New member
Glory, the specific question was whether grace was conditional or unconditional, and whether that grace that was bestowed could be revoked. Supporting the same statement that Jesus made, Hebrews 10 also directly speaks on the subject of grace and its revocation. Yes, Hebrews 10 is speaking of the gospel of grace (as if there was any other!)
Hebrews 10:26-29 KJV
(26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
(27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
(28) He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
(29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Specifically, one who has received grace (having been sanctified by the sacrifice of the Son of God for sins) can have that grace revoked, and this is not the application of the Law of Moses, but compared against the Law of Moses. Read verses 28 and 29. Death without mercy under the Law of Moses, but a much sorer punishment for those who have been sanctified by done despite unto the Spirit of grace.
The word "grace" is up there in boldface and it isn't going away.
Rosenritter
New member
Are you implying that the Second Coming in His Kingdom was fulfilled in Jerusalem of the first century?
glorydaz
Well-known member
You poor thing. :nono:
First, I never believe anything M. Cadry says. He doesn't know what he's talking about. GO said, "Rosenritter's avatar looks like a male to me. (I watch a lot of anime. )". That, of course, is his opinion. It looks like a girl to me, and I don't watch "anime". Nor did I care to consider what that might be.
Best of all, I can't "think back" to your little run in with GT, because I heard nothing of it. I quit paying attention to GT a long time ago. Besides which, GT has a lot of room to talk, she can't even confess her own gender, so that is a bit funny if you ask me.
Just grow up and get over it. I said I would try to remember. If that isn't good enough for you, too bad.
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glorydaz
Well-known member
I rest at the end of the week, like most people. They always have, and they've given their animals a rest as well. If they didn't, they'd break down, because a rest was intended from the beginning.
If it's a defense mechanism, then you're saying I have something to be defensive about. When I believe something to be true, I come right out and say it. So, I think you're being unfair by suggesting I'm rationalizing anything. I could say the same about your claims as well. But, I wouldn't, because I'm convinced you're a very sincere person who says just what he means.
And yet God's eternal law has been around from the beginning. How did Pharaoh know it was wrong to take Sarah when Abraham failed to mention she was his wife? Thou shalt not covet...Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Romans 2:14-15 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )
I'm not seeing how the fruit of the tree is the Law. The Law (Do not eat) was given, and then the fruit was eaten that resulted in death. So wouldn't the curse of the law be the penalty incurred with disobedience?
No? What was written on the conscience of men....manifest in them? Was it not the eternal law that was later written in tablets of stone by the finger of God?
Which harkens back to the purpose of the law, right?