Introduction

markedward

New member
Greetings all.

I'm not sure how often I will be posting. I may read more than I post. But I will introduce myself, at least in terms of how it is important to a relatively anonymous message board, in case I do stop by to give my thoughts on a topic.

I graduated university with a degree in studio art. Other than a few religion classes I took in college, I have no formal theological training. I have been married for almost two years, and am soon to be a father.

I am a Christian, a follower of the one true God and the Lord Jesus Christ. I believe that he was born of the virgin Mary, that he lived a sinless life, that he was crucified by the corrupt religious and political establishment, that he died on the cross as a Covenant sacrifice, once-for-all-time, for the sins of mankind, that he was buried, that he rose to life on the third day, and that he ascended to the right hand of the Throne, where he presently reigns in power.

I absolutely believe in the Scriptures as the true word of God. I think certain non-canonical books (e.g. 1 Maccabees; the Didache) are very relevant for us to read to follow ancient Jewish and Christian thought, but I don't expect anyone to consider them as canonical.

Although I was raised in Protestant churches, and I still attend a Pentecostal-oriented church, I think that Protestantism is as guilty of tradition as Catholicism is, even though Protestants do a better job of sticking to what the Scripture say on certain issues where Catholics fail.

I was a trinitarian for most of my life, but in the last several years I've had increasing dissatisfaction with the way trinitarianism handles many passages of the Bible in order to defend the trinity doctrine. I am still struggling with understanding what the Bible teaches regarding whether or not Jesus is God; at present I favor a "unitarian" position, but I do admit to the strengths of some arguments for the deity of Jesus, which would lead me to a "binitarian" view. This is something I simply am not settled on, and greatly prefer honest dialogue about, rather than hitting someone over the head with proof-texts. (Also, I am not a Jehovah's Witness, I am not a Christadelphian, I am not a Seventh Day Adventist, etc. I am not from any Millerite tradition.)

To summarize my beliefs briefly using broad labels: I believe Scripture must be read according to the original audiences that received each of the books. I believe in conditionalism and annihilationism. I follow a preterist reading of much of the New Testament. I am agnostic when it comes to the age of the earth, and I don't believe the Bible addresses the issue since it wasn't relevant. I favor a allegorical reading of Genesis 2-3, and I am open to the possibility that Adam and Eve may not have been historical individuals.

I try not to be disruptive or argumentative, but I do have a bit of trouble with being overbearing, so please have patience. I do try to provoke thought and challenging discussion on things I consider important, and not, like I said, beating people up with proof-texts. But all in all, I would for us, despite disagreements, even on "essentials", to try to remain one voice in glorifying the Father and his Son.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Greetings all.
:e4e:

I graduated university with a degree in studio art.
So you aren't from the U.S. Are you a Brit?

Other than a few religion classes I took in college, I have no formal theological training. I have been married for almost two years, and am soon to be a father.
Congrats in advance! My Jack is three weeks old this Thursday. It's a grand and sleepless thing. :chuckle:

...I was a trinitarian for most of my life, but in the last several years I've had increasing dissatisfaction with the way trinitarianism handles many passages of the Bible in order to defend the trinity doctrine. I am still struggling with understanding what the Bible teaches regarding whether or not Jesus is God;
We differ then. My faith began with an intervention on the part of Christ and there was no ambiguity in it. I'll pray for a quick and sure resolution for you on that part. Until you have Christ settled, the rest is superfluous.

Welcome :e4e:
 

markedward

New member
Town Heretic said:
So you aren't from the U.S. Are you a Brit?
Not a Brit, no; I am from the US. Sadly, I have never been out of the country. But, I tend to write a bit more formally than I speak, and I suppose some of the speech mannerisms of my old roommate (who was an Anglophile) rubbed off on me.

Congrats in advance! My Jack is three weeks old this Thursday. It's a grand and sleepless thing. :chuckle:
Thank you very much. I'm getting in a decent amount of experience for my daughter's coming early years, since I work with children in preschool and elementary school.

We differ then. My faith began with an intervention on the part of Christ and there was no ambiguity in it. I'll pray for a quick and sure resolution for you on that part. Until you have Christ settled, the rest is superfluous.
I understand what you mean; the rest has somewhat paled in this interim part of my life... And though I study and await a sure and speedy epiphany of the truth, I cannot help but study all things for the sake of all truth. Especially when some of these other areas of affect my perception of that primary and most important thing.

Grace and peace.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Not a Brit, no; I am from the US. Sadly, I have never been out of the country. But, I tend to write a bit more formally than I speak, and I suppose some of the speech mannerisms of my old roommate (who was an Anglophile) rubbed off on me.
Ah, it was your omission of the article before university that gave me the impression. My Brit friends do that. Americans tend to say, "I'm going to the hospital," by way of example.

Thank you very much. I'm getting in a decent amount of experience for my daughter's coming early years, since I work with children in preschool and elementary school.
Couldn't hurt, but there's no preparation for the sleep deprivation of the first weeks following labor. I woke myself up after four hours today and was almost giddy about the duration. :chuckle:

I understand what you mean; the rest has somewhat paled in this interim part of my life... And though I study and await a sure and speedy epiphany of the truth, I cannot help but study all things for the sake of all truth. Especially when some of these other areas of affect my perception of that primary and most important thing.
My very best to you in the journey. :cheers:
 
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Krsto

Well-known member
Welcome. We have way too much in common theologically.

Perhaps the question needs to be how Jesus is God, not whether he is.
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
I am not sure why one needs to rethink essential, salvific, biblical, historical, orthodox truth on the doctrine of God/Deity of Christ that has been settled for 2000 years.


Unitarianism is a pseudo-Christian cult. Arianism, polytheism, modalism are refuted by Jn. 1:1.

There is one true God and many false gods, true vs false gospels, real vs counterfeit Christs (Gal. 1:6-10; Jude 3; 2 Cor. 11:4).

Jesus is Almighty God in the flesh. This is who He is. How He is God relates to the trinity (Father, Son, Holy Spirit, not just two) and incarnation (one person with two natures).
 

markedward

New member
Thanks for the interest, but as I said, I prefer open and honest dialogue, not hitting someone over the head with proof-texts.
 

markedward

New member
do you consider everything you mentioned in your opening post to be important?
That depends. I mentioned that I am agnostic to the age of the earth... I don't think such a topic is important, and I'm fairly passive to the whole Young Earth/Old Earth debate, since it's really not the point of any passage of Scripture. I just mentioned it so that people can know of me that I haven't "taken sides" in that regard.

Everything else that I mentioned (more or less) is something I consider important... and to varying degrees. The possibility of an allegorical reading of Genesis 2-3 is important to me, since it can affect how we read something like, say, Revelation 22. But that isn't as important to me as, say, something like conditionalism, which I am convinced of. And as mentioned before, these all pale in comparison when I study and pray to understand what Scripture teaches on Jesus, and whether or not he is "just" a man, or the result of one "person" from a "biune/triune" God becoming incarnate.
 

Krsto

Well-known member
I am not sure why one needs to rethink essential, salvific, biblical, historical, orthodox truth on the doctrine of God/Deity of Christ that has been settled for 2000 years.


Unitarianism is a pseudo-Christian cult. Arianism, polytheism, modalism are refuted by Jn. 1:1.

There is one true God and many false gods, true vs false gospels, real vs counterfeit Christs (Gal. 1:6-10; Jude 3; 2 Cor. 11:4).

Jesus is Almighty God in the flesh. This is who He is. How He is God relates to the trinity (Father, Son, Holy Spirit, not just two) and incarnation (one person with two natures).

Settled for 2000 years? Can you demonstrate one single trinitarian prior to 150 AD?

Quite a number of Evangelical Scholars agree that the doctrine of the trinity did not originate with the apostles but was developed over time.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
That depends. I mentioned that I am agnostic to the age of the earth... I don't think such a topic is important, and I'm fairly passive to the whole Young Earth/Old Earth debate, since it's really not the point of any passage of Scripture. I just mentioned it so that people can know of me that I haven't "taken sides" in that regard.

Everything else that I mentioned (more or less) is something I consider important... and to varying degrees. The possibility of an allegorical reading of Genesis 2-3 is important to me, since it can affect how we read something like, say, Revelation 22. But that isn't as important to me as, say, something like conditionalism, which I am convinced of. And as mentioned before, these all pale in comparison when I study and pray to understand what Scripture teaches on Jesus, and whether or not he is "just" a man, or the result of one "person" from a "biune/triune" God becoming incarnate.

Welcome friend, we need more free thinkers here. I think Jesus was a man sent from God. Many disagree, and i understand that because I once thought that way also. I pray to the father like Jesus taught us too. Most think that I am just a foolish old man, but they don't care to know truth. Again, Welcome.
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Settled for 2000 years? Can you demonstrate one single trinitarian prior to 150 AD?

Quite a number of Evangelical Scholars agree that the doctrine of the trinity did not originate with the apostles but was developed over time.

The formalized doctrine, like many other early church biblical doctrines, did not happen until a response was needed due to new heretical attacks on orthodoxy. The beliefs were held, sometimes in a pre-theoretical way, before creeds and councils.

Jesus, Paul, John, Luke, Matthew, Mark, Peter, etc. were trinitarian before Tertullian, etc.
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Welcome friend, we need more free thinkers here. I think Jesus was a man sent from God. Many disagree, and i understand that because I once thought that way also. I pray to the father like Jesus taught us too. Most think that I am just a foolish old man, but they don't care to know truth. Again, Welcome.

Trinitarians agree that Jesus was a man sent from God (but more than mere man according to Jn. 1; Heb. 1; Col. 1; Phil. 2 i.e. God-Man). We also pray to the Father in Jesus' name, but Jesus said we can also pray to Him and biblical characters did just that (should not if He is not God since a created being cannot hear/answer prayer like omniscient God can).

I think you are deceived and ignorant, but not a stupid old man.
 
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