In the twinkling of an eye

[DansingWall]

I wanted to start a thread to ask a few simple questions about the rapture theory. What ive found in scripture is no wheres near what i hear from the Rapturist. Ive found that when we are changed in the twinkling of an eye, we are not going to heaven but are going to the kingdom, the thousand year period of rest, right here on this earth. The changing {rapture} takes place on the Day of the Lord, after the tribulation period.

1 THESSALONIANS 5 [9] For God hath NOT APPOINTED US TO WRATH, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, [10] Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

The Rapturist claim we are raptured off to heaven because we are not appointed to wrath.

1 THESSALONIANS 4 [15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and SO SHALL WE EVER BE WITH THE LORD.

We will be with Jesus from here on in

REVELATION 19 [14] And THE ARMIES WHICH WERE IN HEAVEN FOLLOWED HIM UPON WHITE HORSES, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. [15] And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth THE WINEPRESS OF THE FIERCENESS AND WRATH OF ALMIGHTY GOD. [16] And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Here we find Jesus returning to earth. We are with Him and He will be executing Gods wrath upon this earth. Again i say, the Rapturist claim we will be raptured to heaven to avoid the wrath of God. And yet, according to scripture we are here on earth during the wrath.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I wanted to start a thread to ask a few simple questions about the rapture theory. What ive found in scripture is no wheres near what i hear from the Rapturist. Ive found that when we are changed in the twinkling of an eye, we are not going to heaven but are going to the kingdom, the thousand year period of rest, right here on this earth. The changing {rapture} takes place on the Day of the Lord, after the tribulation period.

1 THESSALONIANS 5 [9] For God hath NOT APPOINTED US TO WRATH, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, [10] Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

The Rapturist claim we are raptured off to heaven because we are not appointed to wrath.

1 THESSALONIANS 4 [15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and SO SHALL WE EVER BE WITH THE LORD.

We will be with Jesus from here on in

REVELATION 19 [14] And THE ARMIES WHICH WERE IN HEAVEN FOLLOWED HIM UPON WHITE HORSES, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. [15] And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth THE WINEPRESS OF THE FIERCENESS AND WRATH OF ALMIGHTY GOD. [16] And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Here we find Jesus returning to earth. We are with Him and He will be executing Gods wrath upon this earth. Again i say, the Rapturist claim we will be raptured to heaven to avoid the wrath of God. And yet, according to scripture we are here on earth during the wrath.

I believe in the Resurrection, not the Rapture.

People that believe in the Rapture assume that believers are caught up to the third heaven (where God dwells).

2 Corinthians 12:2 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; ) such an one caught up to the third heaven.​

The second heaven is outer space, and the first heaven is the atmosphere.

Jesus arrives in the clouds, which shows that Jesus is in the first heaven (atmosphere) when this happens.
The living believers are caught up in the clouds with the dead (asleep) believers, which again shows that it is the first heaven (atmosphere).

 

[comingfrom]

Hi DansingWall,

did you have a question?
I agree with you, that the rapture is not as the common myth suggests.

Rapture means exceeding glad.
In the day of the Lord, when He appears to us, then we are gladdened.
We're gladdened because He resurrected us, when He saved us.
And we are entered into the kingdom of God, on that day.
I was born again in 2004.
My heart burned within me as my understanding of scripture was opened.

And though the Lord comes, and I was changed, in the twinkling of eye,
I still had to keep the feast of weeks to get to my day of atonement.

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day:
and he saw it, and was glad.
John 8:56

 

[comingfrom]

I believe in the Resurrection, not the Rapture.

People that believe in the Rapture assume that believers are caught up to the third heaven (where God dwells).

2 Corinthians 12:2 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; ) such an one caught up to the third heaven.​

The second heaven is outer space, and the first heaven is the atmosphere.

Jesus arrives in the clouds, which shows that Jesus is in the first heaven (atmosphere) when this happens.
The living believers are caught up in the clouds with the dead (asleep) believers, which again shows that it is the first heaven (atmosphere).

Those that are resurrected are rapt.
Rejoicing in the Lord, and in their salvation.

When Jesus appears, He will take you up in the spirit.
Pray for that day.

And ye shall rejoice before the LORD your God,
ye, and your sons, and your daughters,
and your menservants, and your maidservants,
and the Levite that is within your gates;
forasmuch as he has no part nor inheritance with you.
Deuteronomy 12:12

 

[DansingWall]

Jesus arrives in the clouds, which shows that Jesus is in the first heaven (atmosphere) when this happens.
The living believers are caught up in the clouds with the dead (asleep) believers, which again shows that it is the first heaven (atmosphere).

After we meet Him in the air....where are we going?

 

[DansingWall]

Rapture means exceeding glad.
In the day of the Lord, when He appears to us, then we are gladdened.
We're gladdened because He resurrected us, when He saved us.
And we are entered into the kingdom of God, on that day.
I was born again in 2004.
My heart burned within me as my understanding of scripture was opened.

Are you saying the 1Cor.15 event happened to you on the day you were born again?

 

[comingfrom]

Are you saying the 1Cor.15 event happened to you on the day you were born again?

Thank you.
Yes, 1 Corinthians 15:52, and 1 Thessalonians 4:17.
Pretty much describe what happened to me.

Jesus comes. Yeah?

I will not leave you comfortless:
I will come to you.
John 14:18

 

[DansingWall]

Thank you.
Yes, 1 Corinthians 15:52, and 1 Thessalonians 4:17.
Pretty much describe what happened to me.

Jesus comes. Yeah?

I will not leave you comfortless:
I will come to you.
John 14:18

According to scripture being "born again" happens when we are all changed in the twinkling of an eye. Thats when our corruptible puts on the incorruptible. This only makes sense because we are givin new bodies before entering the kingdom

PHIL.3 [20] For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:[21] WHO SHALL CHANGE OUR VILE BODY, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

1PETER1
[4] To AN INHERITANCE INCORRUPTIBLE, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
[5] Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto SALVATION READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST TIME.
[9] Receiving the END OF YOUR FAITH, EVEN THE SALVATION OF YOUR SOULS.[10] Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
[13] Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and HOPE TO THE END FOR THE GRACE THAT IS TO BE BROUGHT UNTO YOU AT THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST;
[23] BEING BORN AGAIN, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED, BUT OF INCORRUPTIBLE, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1COR.15
[42] So also is the resurrection of the dead. IT IS SOWN IN CORRUPTION; IT IS RAISED IN INCORRUPTION:
[43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. THERE IS A NATURAL BODY, AND THERE IS A SPIRITUAL BODY. ........
[49] And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Phil.3{21}
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; NEITHER DOTH CORRUPTION INHERIT INCORRUPTION.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] FOR THIS CORRUPTIBLE MUST PUT ON INCORRUPTION, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Alls ya really gotta do is read 1Peter1{23} and 1Cor.15{53} and youll understand what it means to be “born again”

 

[Clete]

I wanted to start a thread to ask a few simple questions about the rapture theory. What ive found in scripture is no wheres near what i hear from the Rapturist. Ive found that when we are changed in the twinkling of an eye, we are not going to heaven but are going to the kingdom, the thousand year period of rest, right here on this earth. The changing {rapture} takes place on the Day of the Lord, after the tribulation period.

1 THESSALONIANS 5 [9] For God hath NOT APPOINTED US TO WRATH, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, [10] Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

The Rapturist claim we are raptured off to heaven because we are not appointed to wrath.

1 THESSALONIANS 4 [15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and SO SHALL WE EVER BE WITH THE LORD.

We will be with Jesus from here on in

REVELATION 19 [14] And THE ARMIES WHICH WERE IN HEAVEN FOLLOWED HIM UPON WHITE HORSES, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. [15] And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth THE WINEPRESS OF THE FIERCENESS AND WRATH OF ALMIGHTY GOD. [16] And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Here we find Jesus returning to earth. We are with Him and He will be executing Gods wrath upon this earth. Again i say, the Rapturist claim we will be raptured to heaven to avoid the wrath of God. And yet, according to scripture we are here on earth during the wrath.

So, you're saying that we are raptured (i.e. caught up - harpazō - together with Him) so as to become the armies which follow Christ back to Earth? That's a new one.

If so, in what way would those helping to dish out the wrath not be escaping it? I mean, those who believe in the rapture (pretty much all of Christianity, by the way) don't believe that the wrath isn't going to happen, they believe that it isn't going to happen to them. This is because God isn't mad at us because we are in Christ. God isn't mad at Christ! God already dished out His wrath on Christ at Calvary and those who are in Him have died with Him and have been raised to life in Him (Romans 6:5). There is no place for wrath against those who are in Christ.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Clete]

Hi DansingWall,

did you have a question?
I agree with you, that the rapture is not as the common myth suggests.

Rapture means exceeding glad.
In the day of the Lord, when He appears to us, then we are gladdened.
We're gladdened because He resurrected us, when He saved us.
And we are entered into the kingdom of God, on that day.
I was born again in 2004.
My heart burned within me as my understanding of scripture was opened.

And though the Lord comes, and I was changed, in the twinkling of eye,
I still had to keep the feast of weeks to get to my day of atonement.

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day:
and he saw it, and was glad.
John 8:56

Is your knowledge of the scripture and common Christian terms so lacking as to allow you to actually believe that you've been raptured already?

You do understand that you aren't saved because you call yourself a Christian, say sugary sweet things, are nice to people and feel warm and fuzzy on the inside - right?

The Christian term "rapture" as I indicated in my previous post, comes from the Greek word 'harpazō'. It means to seize or to catch away, to pluck or to take by force. It is used in the New Testament 13 times and in the King James is translated 'catch up' (4x), 'take by force' (3x), 'catch away' (2x), 'pluck' (2x), 'catch' (1x), 'pull' (1x).

The rapture doctrine comes primarily from 1 Thessalonians 4 where in verse 17 we read...

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up - 'harpazō' - together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Oh, and by the way, you are not a Jew.


Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[clefty]

So, you're saying that we are raptured (i.e. caught up - harpazō - together with Him) so as to become the armies which follow Christ back to Earth? That's a new one.

If so, in what way would those helping to dish out the wrath not be escaping it? I mean, those who believe in the rapture (pretty much all of Christianity, by the way) don't believe that the wrath isn't going to happen, they believe that it isn't going to happen to them. This is because God isn't mad at us because we are in Christ. God isn't mad at Christ! God already dished out His wrath on Christ at Calvary and those who are in Him have died with Him and have been raised to life in Him (Romans 6:5). There is no place for wrath against those who are in Christ.

Resting in Him,
Clete

Hmmm Matt 24:20 has Yahushua instructing prayers be said that their fleeing not happen in winter or on a Sabbath...seems like they are neck deep in trials and tribulations...and yet winter is happening...oh and the Sabbath too...odd

 

[clefty]

Is your knowledge of the scripture and common Christian terms so lacking as to allow you to actually believe that you've been raptured already?

You do understand that you aren't saved because you call yourself a Christian, say sugary sweet things, are nice to people and feel warm and fuzzy on the inside - right?

The Christian term "rapture" as I indicated in my previous post, comes from the Greek word 'harpazō'. It means to seize or to catch away, to pluck or to take by force. It is used in the New Testament 13 times and in the King James is translated 'catch up' (4x), 'take by force' (3x), 'catch away' (2x), 'pluck' (2x), 'catch' (1x), 'pull' (1x).

The rapture doctrine comes primarily from 1 Thessalonians 4 where in verse 17 we read...

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up - 'harpazō' - together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Oh, and by the way, you are not a Jew.


Resting in Him,
Clete

Not jewish?

PHew!...as no jew or gentile are IN HIM as He catches up His people Israel btw when He returns to take back with Him WHOSOEVER believes in Him...to tabernacle in booths while the NEW HEAVEN AND THE NEW EARTH is prepared for them...their permanent home...

 

[meshak]

Oh, and by the way, you are not a Jew.


Resting in Him,
Clete

He may be a spiritual Jew. and I know you don't believe in the spiritual Jews.

 

[clefty]

He may be a spiritual Jew. and I know you don't believe in the spiritual Jews.

Right because jews don’t believe their god had an only begotten Son spiritually Who went on to be reborn into flesh that WHOSEVER (not just them da jews) born in the flesh believes in Him will be reborn into the spirit...

and now a citizen of Israel yes always of Spirit and from above and full of goyim who believe

ONE Law for native and forefinger alike...

 

[Right Divider]

He may be a spiritual Jew. and I know you don't believe in the spiritual Jews.

We do believe in spiritual Jews. We just know that your false version is false.

 

[Clete]

He may be a spiritual Jew. and I know you don't believe in the spiritual Jews.

The only way to be a Jew today is either ethnically or by following a false religion.

There is no possible way for anyone to rightly "keep the feast of weeks to get to my day of atonement". Both apply to a theological system which is no longer in play. I mean, you can play pretend and go through all the rituals and practices associated with the Jewish Feasts if you want but they won't profit you any more than if you yelled "Boogala! Boogala! Boogala!" while jumping up and down on one foot while patting your head.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Clete]

Hmmm Matt 24:20 has Yahushua instructing prayers be said that their fleeing not happen in winter or on a Sabbath...seems like they are neck deep in trials and tribulations...and yet winter is happening...oh and the Sabbath too...odd

I surely have you on ignore for good reason so I have no doubt that I'm going to regret this but...

What does Matt. 24:20 have to do with the rapture?

 

[meshak]

The only way to be a Jew today is either ethnically or by following a false religion.

There is no possible way for anyone to rightly "to keep the feast of weeks to get to my day of atonement". Both apply to a theological system which is no longer in play. I mean, you can play pretend and go through all the rituals and practices associated with the Jewish Feasts if you want but they won't profit you any more than if you yelled "Boogala! Boogala! Boogala!" while jumping up and down on one foot while patting your head.

Resting in Him,
Clete

suit yourself.

 

[DansingWall]

So, you're saying that we are raptured (i.e. caught up - harpazō - together with Him) so as to become the armies which follow Christ back to Earth? That's a new one.

You will not find one scripture saying we are going to heaven after meeting the Lord in the air. Not a one.

 

[Clete]

You will not find one scripture saying we are going to heaven after meeting the Lord in the air. Not a one.

So what?

Is that your idea of an argument?

Just where do you think we are caught up to, 30,000 ft?

We are citizens of Heaven from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior who's Father has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Him.


Resting in Him,
Clete