I have a question about observing God’s commands in light of New Testament scriptures

[Jacob]

In regard to observing commands found in the Old Testament scriptures pertaining to the New Testament scriptures, as New Testament believers are we to stop at observing, of the old covenant commands or Old Testament scriptures, only those commands that are found, reiterated, or repeated in the New Testament scriptures? Should we observe all those that are?

From on the Narrow Path today in the afternoon.

http://www.thenarrowpath.com/archive/TNP160510H.mp3

 

[Nick M]

Carnal = mind on the performance of the flesh

 

[jamie]

In regard to observing commands found in the Old Testament scriptures pertaining to the New Testament scriptures, as New Testament believers are we to stop at observing, of the old covenant commands or Old Testament scriptures, only those commands that are found, reiterated, or repeated in the New Testament scriptures? Should we observe all those that are?

If the Father wanted people to observe the law he gave for Israel through Moses he would not have destroyed the Temple and priesthood. You are simply rebelling against the Father's decision.

 

[Jacob]

If the Father wanted people to observe the law he gave for Israel through Moses he would not have destroyed the Temple and priesthood. You are simply rebelling against the Father's decision.

The temple was destroyed before, but I believe God wanted it rebuilt.

 

[Jacob]

Carnal = mind on the performance of the flesh

?

 

[jamie]

The temple was destroyed before, but I believe God wanted it rebuilt.

Was the Temple rebuilt because it was not time for the kingdom of God? (Mark 1:14-15)

 

[Jacob]

Was the Temple rebuilt because it was not time for the kingdom of God? (Mark 1:14-15)

Your question does not make sense to me.

 

[Bradley D]

There is a new temple that resides inside the Christian.

"Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in your midst?" (1 Cor. 3:16)

The law still stands.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.…" (Mat. 5:17)

Many believe that the law Jesus speaks of is the moral law.

"Moral Law
The moral laws, or mishpatim, relate to justice and judgment and are often translated as "ordinances." Mishpatim are said to be based on God's holy nature. As such, the ordinances are holy, just, and unchanging. Their purpose is to promote the welfare of those who obey. The value of the laws is considered obvious by reason and common sense. The moral law encompasses regulations on justice, respect, and sexual conduct, and includes the Ten Commandments. It also includes penalties for failure to obey the ordinances. Moral law does not point people to Christ; it merely illuminates the fallen state of all mankind." (http://www.gotquestions.org/ceremonial-law.html)

 

[Jacob]

There is a new temple that resides inside the Christian.

"Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in your midst?" (1 Cor. 3:16)

The law still stands.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.…" (Mat. 5:17)

Many believe that the law Jesus speaks of is the moral law.

"Moral Law
The moral laws, or mishpatim, relate to justice and judgment and are often translated as "ordinances." Mishpatim are said to be based on God's holy nature. As such, the ordinances are holy, just, and unchanging. Their purpose is to promote the welfare of those who obey. The value of the laws is considered obvious by reason and common sense. The moral law encompasses regulations on justice, respect, and sexual conduct, and includes the Ten Commandments. It also includes penalties for failure to obey the ordinances. Moral law does not point people to Christ; it merely illuminates the fallen state of all mankind." (http://www.gotquestions.org/ceremonial-law.html)

I believe this is a view that is saying says or said or had here said that though the Law points out sin it does not point to Jesus. People are led to Christ when they come to understand their sin. Not when people lead them to Christ though this is true as well, but when God saves a person they know their need for being saved. Maybe without being pointed to Christ they don't know they can be saved by Him.

I believe all of God's Law is moral. I believe you have presented one view of something called the moral law. That is, this is a view that defines what the moral law is to the person who put the view together.

 

[beameup]

The Sect of the Nazarenes (ie: Messianic Jews) disappeared after the destruction of the Temple.
There are many Messianic Congregations in Israel today and the "movement is growing".
The Temple will be rebuilt in due time. The Hebrew believers under Peter lived under the Mosaic system.

On the other hand, believers today are part of the Body of Christ and have one Apostle, the Apostle Paul.
Reading and abiding by Paul's Epistles will provide you with all the information you need to obey during this
present era. There will come a time when the Body of Christ is removed before the
Lord returns to set-up his Kingdom on earth.

 

[Jacob]

The Sect of the Nazarenes (ie: Messianic Jews) disappeared after the destruction of the Temple.
There are many Messianic Congregations in Israel today and the "movement is growing".
The Temple will be rebuilt in due time. The Hebrew believers under Peter lived under the Mosaic system.

On the other hand, believers today are part of the Body of Christ and have one Apostle, the Apostle Paul.
Reading and abiding by Paul's Epistles will provide you with all the information you need to obey during this
present era. There will come a time when the Body of Christ is removed before the
Lord returns to set-up his Kingdom on earth.

I have read the Bible (scripture) and I don't know what you are talking about to be Biblical or Theological truth.

 

[beameup]

It depends on your Christian "background". If you have been raised on "Replacement Theology" then what I posted will not make sense. Replacement Theology was the underlying theology developed in the 1st Century following the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. The vast majority of Christendom follows Replacement Theology.
On the other hand, some have discovered that the Body of Christ is a distinct entity completely separate from Israel and Judaism. Most of the Bible is directed at Israel. However, if you are of Replacement Theology then "Israel" no longer exists and never will ever exist, so all of the Bible would apply to you, be written to you and for you. That would of course include the 613 Commandments in the Old Testament (ie: the LAW).

Romans 11:13
1 Timothy 2:7
2 Timothy 1:11

 

[Clete]

In regard to observing commands found in the Old Testament scriptures pertaining to the New Testament scriptures, as New Testament believers are we to stop at observing, of the old covenant commands or Old Testament scriptures, only those commands that are found, reiterated, or repeated in the New Testament scriptures? Should we observe all those that are?

From on the Narrow Path today in the afternoon.

http://www.thenarrowpath.com/archive/TNP160510H.mp3

You won't find an answer that satisfies you until you begin to "rightly divide the Word of Truth", as the Apostle Paul put it (2 Timothy 2:15).


I'll give you a major clue. All of the passages in the New Testament that seem to teach to observe the law (commandments, rules, rituals, or whatever form the law takes) are found in the gospels and in the books written by someone other than the Apostle Paul.

Galatians 2:6 But from those who seemed to be something—whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man—for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me. 7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter 8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles), 9 and when James, Peter, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.​

Don't take my word for it. Read this thread! I haven't read any of it at all apart from your opening post and I can tell you in advance that those who want to tell you that you have to follow the rules will get their proof texts from anywhere and everywhere except Romans - Philemon and those who would teach you that it isn't at all about following rules can only get such teaching from Paul. As an example, to highlight the difference, I offer you the following two passages. The rest of the thread can be divided into groups with the following to passages as headers...

Romans 4:4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,


James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

17...faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.​

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Jacob]

You won't find an answer that satisfies you until you begin to "rightly divide the Word of Truth", as the Apostle Paul put it (2 Timothy 2:15).


I'll give you a major clue. All of the passages in the New Testament that seem to teach to observe the law (commandments, rules, rituals, or whatever form the law takes) are found in the gospels and in the books written by someone other than the Apostle Paul.

Galatians 2:6 But from those who seemed to be something—whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man—for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me. 7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter 8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles), 9 and when James, Peter, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.​

Don't take my word for it. Read this thread! I haven't read any of it at all apart from your opening post and I can tell you in advance that those who want to tell you that you have to follow the rules will get their proof texts from anywhere and everywhere except Romans - Philemon and those who would teach you that it isn't at all about following rules can only get such teaching from Paul. As an example, to highlight the difference, I offer you the following two passages. The rest of the thread can be divided into groups with the following to passages as headers...

Romans 4:4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,


James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

17...faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.​

Resting in Him,
Clete

It is my belief that Paul said nothing against the Law.

 

[Jacob]

It depends on your Christian "background". If you have been raised on "Replacement Theology" then what I posted will not make sense. Replacement Theology was the underlying theology developed in the 1st Century following the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. The vast majority of Christendom follows Replacement Theology.
On the other hand, some have discovered that the Body of Christ is a distinct entity completely separate from Israel and Judaism. Most of the Bible is directed at Israel. However, if you are of Replacement Theology then "Israel" no longer exists and never will ever exist, so all of the Bible would apply to you, be written to you and for you. That would of course include the 613 Commandments in the Old Testament (ie: the LAW).

Romans 11:13
1 Timothy 2:7
2 Timothy 1:11

God gave the Law to the nation of Israel. He promised the new covenant to the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It came in Jesus who said of Himself this is the new covenant in My blood.

I do not believe in Replacement Theology. I grew up dispensational so I am a former dispensationalist.

 

[jamie]

On the other hand, believers today are part of the Body of Christ and have one Apostle, the Apostle Paul.

Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus.
(Hebrews 3:1)​

Consider.

 

[beameup]

God gave the Law to the nation of Israel. He promised the new covenant to the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It came in Jesus who said of Himself this is the new covenant in My blood.

I do not believe in Replacement Theology. I grew up dispensational so I am a former dispensationalist.

Post #8 has the correct information.

Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: [Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc.]

The "Gospels" are directed at Israel. Jesus came to his own; his message was to his own.

The critical juncture for the "cutting off" of Israel was the stoning of Stephen in Acts 7.
Following that event, Saul of Tarsus had a direct revelation of the risen Jesus Christ in Acts 9.
Paul was given the assignment to be an Apostle to the Gentiles (ie: a light unto the Gentiles).
The "twelve" Apostles under Peter remained in Jerusalem for 14 years and ministered strictly to Jews.

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me [Paul], as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter

The "circumcision" are held to a higher standard than the Gentiles, as they have the Prophets and the Holy Scriptures, and are the "chosen" of the Father. This is why the "Hebrew" epistles contain elements of the Law (of Moses) and contain information that only a Jew would know (like the Book of Hebrews, for example). These are informative to read, however, as a Gentile, your DOCTRINE is from Paul.
If you use Paul's Epistles to lay your foundation, then it all becomes crystal clear and there will be no confusion.
Please note: "Hebrews" is anonymous and therefore is not doctrine of Paul for Gentiles.

 

[Hawkins]

In regard to observing commands found in the Old Testament scriptures pertaining to the New Testament scriptures, as New Testament believers are we to stop at observing, of the old covenant commands or Old Testament scriptures, only those commands that are found, reiterated, or repeated in the New Testament scriptures? Should we observe all those that are?

From on the Narrow Path today in the afternoon.

http://www.thenarrowpath.com/archive/TNP160510H.mp3

First, the "Law written in our hearts" was given to humans. This set of Law refers our conscience and moral code. On top of that another set of Law was given to the Jews. It is the Mosaic Law. The "Law written in our hearts" thus is said to be the Law for the gentiles. The two sets of Law are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Such as "Do not kill" can both be the written Law (Mosaic Law) and our conscience.

That said, basically we as gentiles don't need to observe Mosaic Law. However, some of these laws may have transformed into Jesus' teachings. For an example,

Matthew 19:18-19 (NIV)
"Which ones?" the man inquired. Jesus replied, "'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'"


In this case, the 10 commandments in OT have been transformed as Christ teachings of NT. Sabbath is not included as we gentile Christians have Sunday services instead.

 

[Jacob]

Post #8 has the correct information.

The "Gospels" are directed at Israel. Jesus came to his own; his message was to his own.

The critical juncture for the "cutting off" of Israel was the stoning of Stephen in Acts 7.
Following that event, Saul of Tarsus had a direct revelation of the risen Jesus Christ in Acts 9.
Paul was given the assignment to be an Apostle to the Gentiles (ie: a light unto the Gentiles).
The "twelve" Apostles under Peter remained in Jerusalem for 14 years and ministered strictly to Jews.

The "circumcision" are held to a higher standard than the Gentiles, as they have the Prophets and the Holy Scriptures, and are the "chosen" of the Father. This is why the "Hebrew" epistles contain elements of the Law (of Moses) and contain information that only a Jew would know (like the Book of Hebrews, for example).
If you use Paul's Epistles to lay your foundation, then it all becomes crystal clear and there will be no confusion.

I have no problem with discussing only Paul with you if that is what you want. I personally believe he never spoke against the Law. I would rather start with Jesus, as He is my Lord. Then there is the apostles and the prophets and the rest of the church, which includes Paul.

 

[Jacob]

First, the "Law written in our hearts" was given to humans. This set of Law refers our conscience and moral code. On top of that another set of Law was given to the Jews. It is the Mosaic Law. The "Law written in our hearts" thus is said to be the Law for the gentiles. The two sets of Law are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Such as "Do not kill" can both be the written Law (Mosaic Law) and our conscience.

That said, basically we as gentiles don't need to observe Mosaic Law. However, some of these laws may have transformed into Jesus' teaching. For an example,

Matthew 19:18-19 (NIV)
"Which ones?" the man inquired. Jesus replied, "'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'"


In this case, the 10 commandments in OT have been transformed as Christ teachings of NT. Sabbath is not included as we gentile Christians have Sunday services instead.

As I understand it the Sabbath commandment is not about having a service.

Yes, you have a conscience. You know right from wrong even without the Law of Moses (though God's Law does a really good job of pointing out and spelling out what our obedience should look like and what sin is). Many have a moral code that is not identical to the Law of Moses but does not contradict it. This can be said to be from God.

As for a law written in our hearts, I believe you may be wanting to talk about the new covenant, which came later. But maybe you can explain your thoughts.