I don't understand why

[deheretic]

According to my sister abortion is wrong it is murdering an unborn child. Personally I feel that I can not impose my beliefs on my fellow man.

According to the ten commandments I learned as a child you are not supposed to kill and there was no except attached to the law, where abortion is murder and in the next breath sit down and support the mass bombing of Iraq killing over 100,000 men women and children and think that is okay and that it is not considered killing because you have taken these lives in God's name
:bang:

 

[chrysostom]

You need to investigate the following:

Is there such a thing as a just war?

Can you prevent innocent people from getting killed in a just war?

How many abortions are there because of convenience?

 

[EMETH]

Personally I feel that I can not impose my beliefs on my fellow man.

EVERY criminal law is imposing somebodies beliefs on others.

 

[deheretic]

Just war?

Just war?

As I see it there is no such thing as a just war..

I am not in the position to determine if an abortion is of convince or not..

I am only accountable for my actions.

 

[koban]

According to my sister abortion is wrong it is murdering an unborn child.

Your sister sounds like she's got a good head on her shoulders! :thumb:

Personally I feel that I can not impose my beliefs on my fellow man.

Suppose one of your fellow men wanted to rape your sister. Would you impose your beliefs (ie - that that was wrong and that you wouldn't let him) upon him? :think:

According to the ten commandments I learned as a child you are not supposed to kill

Ahhh - a fine point to pick here - it actually translates as "unjustly kill", or "murder".

and there was no except attached to the law,

See now, there were exceptions attached to the law - the Israelites were instructed to kill murderers, for example, or those who had defiled the temple.

where abortion is murder and in the next breath sit down and support the mass bombing of Iraq killing over 100,000 men women and children and think that is okay

OK, not sure who you're referring to here. I haven't heard anybody say it's OK that innocent civilians die in a war, but it is a fact of war. In fact, it's a good reason that war should be avoided, if possible.

and that it is not considered killing because you have taken these lives in God's name

Again, nor sure who you're referring to here. If I heard anybody make the claim that the innocent civilians killed in the Iraq war were not really killed because they were killed in God's name, I believe I'd devote a small amount of time to mocking them for being idiots.

But that's just me.

 

[chrysostom]

As I see it there is no such thing as a just war..

If someone attacked you, would you defend yourself?

 

[deheretic]

EVERY criminal law is imposing somebodies beliefs on others.

Again that is very true having been in law enforcement you soon realize law enforcement really has little morality it boils down to is "We are the good guys, they are the bad guys, and the good guys get the bad guys see?"

Unfortunately or fortunately depending on your point of view, abortion is legal.. do you have the right to condemn them on your moral values?

 

[koban]

As I see it there is no such thing as a just war..

Much as I hate to access the inevitable Nazi reference, it is a familiar scenario.

Was it just for the Allies to go to war to stop the aggressor Axis powers in WWII?

Or, if that's language you're unfamiliar with, was it just for the Americans and British and Russians to fight the Nazi's and keep them from taking control of Europe and continue murdering Jews?

 

[EMETH]

Unfortunately or fortunately depending on your point of view, abortion is legal.. do you have the right to condemn them on your moral values?

As much right to condemn them as the early Christians had to condemn the ancient Romans for abandoning their undesired children to the elements.

 

[deheretic]

reference

reference

Much as I hate to access the inevitable Nazi reference, it is a familiar scenario.

Was it just for the Allies to go to war to stop the aggressor Axis powers in WWII?

Or, if that's language you're unfamiliar with, was it just for the Americans and British and Russians to fight the Nazi's and keep them from taking control of Europe and continue murdering Jews?

Koban I am a legal US Citizen and I reside in Europe with my wife who is European.

I still can not justify any war taking a human life is wrong.

When I lived in the US I was taught that the Nazi's had it in for the Jews, as it turns out they had it in for every one that was not Duits to this point I am beginning to wonder if the Jews were not the minority of those that the Nazi's killed. They just beat the drum the loudest.

Taking a human life is a very serious matter and should not be taken lightly or easily written off.

 

[EMETH]

I am beginning to wonder if the Jews were not the minority of those that the Nazi's killed.

The holocaust claimed over 13 million victims. Around 6 million were Jewish. The Jews made up a little less than half of the victims of the holocaust but they were the largest identifiable group of victims.

 

[Frank Ernest]

Again that is very true having been in law enforcement you soon realize law enforcement really has little morality it boils down to is "We are the good guys, they are the bad guys, and the good guys get the bad guys see?"

Apparently you have lost your moral compass.

Unfortunately or fortunately depending on your point of view, abortion is legal.. do you have the right to condemn them on your moral values?

Sure do. Man's laws do not trump God's laws. What's legal does not define or limit what's moral.

 

[TomO]

Koban I am a legal US Citizen and I reside in Europe with my wife who is European.

I still can not justify any war taking a human life is wrong.

When I lived in the US I was taught that the Nazi's had it in for the Jews, as it turns out they had it in for every one that was not Duits to this point I am beginning to wonder if the Jews were not the minority of those that the Nazi's killed. They just beat the drum the loudest.

Taking a human life is a very serious matter and should not be taken lightly or easily written off.

:think: The fact that you equate the reasoning that sometimes life must be taken to protect the innocent from harm, with taking the gift of life lightly, speaks volumes about your actual mindset.

:nono: You don't value life; you lack conviction and courage.

You whine about the loss of life, yet you would merely wag your finger at mass murder. You cry for the murderer, yet downplay the murder of the innocent victims. Even if what you report about the Nazi's is true (Yes, there is an element of truth to that; the Nazis hated, and killed, just about anyone different from them) what difference does that make?....your answer does not adress Kobans question at all. It merely side-steps it......and does so quite cowardly I might add.

lain: You state you are an American Citizen.....are you from California?

 

[deheretic]

:think: The fact that you equate the reasoning that sometimes life must be taken to protect the innocent from harm, with taking the gift of life lightly, speaks volumes about your actual mindset.

:nono: You don't value life; you lack conviction and courage.

You whine about the loss of life, yet you would merely wag your finger at mass murder. You cry for the murderer, yet downplay the murder of the innocent victims. Even if what you report about the Nazi's is true (Yes, there is an element of truth to that; the Nazis hated, and killed, just about anyone different from them) what difference does that make?....your answer does not adress Kobans question at all. It merely side-steps it......and does so quite cowardly I might add.

lain: You state you are an American Citizen.....are you from California?

TomO Kipling wrote in a poem "If you can bear to ear the truth you have spoken twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools . . "


It seems you are quick to twist things around to say what you want to say even when some one did not say that, You are quick to call me a coward, interesting because the names people call another are often times that persons view of themselves.

No I am not from California but I was assigned to work there for a few years

 

[deheretic]

Apparently you have lost your moral compass.

Sure do. Man's laws do not trump God's laws. What's legal does not define or limit what's moral.

Some times I need a good laugh Just checked my moral compass it is working just fine,,

and I hope I am smart enough spiritually not to put my self in the position of judging my fellow man,

 

[TomO]

TomO Kipling wrote in a poem "If you can bear to ear the truth you have spoken twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools . . "


It seems you are quick to twist things around to say what you want to say even when some one did not say that, You are quick to call me a coward, interesting because the names people call another are often times that persons view of themselves.

Actually what I posted was that you lack conviction (which it seems you do not dispute) and courage.

cour·age
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English corage, from Anglo-French curage, from quer, coer heart, from Latin cor — more at heart
Date: 14th century
: mental or moral strength to venture, persevere, and withstand danger, fear, or difficulty

synonyms; courage: mettle , spirit , resolution , tenacity mean mental or moral strength to resist opposition, danger, or hardship. courage implies firmness of mind and will in the face of danger or extreme difficulty <the courage to support unpopular causes>. mettle suggests an ingrained capacity for meeting strain or difficulty with fortitude and resilience <a challenge that will test your mettle>. spirit also suggests a quality of temperament enabling one to hold one's own or keep up one's morale when opposed or threatened <her spirit was unbroken by failure>. resolution stresses firm determination to achieve one's ends <the resolution of pioneer women>. tenacity adds to resolution implications of stubborn persistence and unwillingness to admit defeat <held to their beliefs with great tenacity>.

Not that you are a coward:

cow·ard
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French cuard, from cue, coe tail, from Latin cauda
Date: 13th century
: one who shows disgraceful fear or timidity

:think: Not quite the same thing.....but far be it from me to dispute your self-assessment.

My point is that you lack the internal fortitude to admit or realize (much less do) that which is abhorrent to you is sometimes necessary for the protection of the weak and innocent.

(I did point out that the answer you gave did not address Koban's question.....that it was cowardly (ie: disgraceful and timid) but once again, I characterized your answer not you.....If you yourself are truly a coward that remains to be seen, and even if that is the case, it's not something which I really care about anyway. :idunno: )

No I am not from California but I was assigned to work there for a few years

Went "native" I see. lain:

 

[MaryContrary]

So are you just here to whine or did you intend to examine the gaping holes being pointed out in your logic?
Because I don't see you doing that anywhere.

 

[Nick M]

Another pervert joined TOL to show how evil he is. Good answer Koban. He would undoubtably let that man rape his sister.

 

[Stripe]

lain: I don't know about that, Nick. I'm betting if push ever came to shove good sense would eventually overrule his pride. Hopefully it would do so quickly enough for him to act appropriately...

 

[deheretic]

Lacking conviction;
If standing up against wanton killing is lacking conviction no matter the form it takes -- then I lack convictions
If standing up for your freedom to speak out even if I disagree with you is lacking conviction -- then I lack conviction
If you ever have to face a religious tribunal because of your beliefs then we can start discussing what conviction is

There is one law that is written in the hearts of all men and that is the law you are accountable to God for. I personally try to follow that law carefully and with great conviction.. as for side stepping..