ECT How is Paul's message different?

[Right Divider]

I totally agree. I believe this is the context.

15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation

That's everyone, not just the Jews.

So, according to YOU.... everyone must get wet to be saved. AND that they should do all of these...

Mark 16:17-18 (AKJV/PCE)​

(16:17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; (16:18) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
​

Do you do ALL of those?

• Cast out devils
• Speak in new tougues
• Take up serpents
• Not hurt by drinking deadly things
• Lay hand on the sick and heal them

I didn't think so.

 

[Danoh]

I totally agree. I believe this is the context.

15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation

That's everyone, not just the Jews.

No, that passage is NOT the context.

Rather, it takes place within one.

And what that context is, is Isaiah 2, AFTER His return per Isaiah 60, and Isaiah 66, as described by Him in Matthew 24.

Which is why STP is ever quoting Matthew 10: 23 to the ever clueless, IP.

Matthew 28 is Israel's commission under the Twelve Apostles, Isaiah 66; Jer. 31:7; Matt. 19: 28.

That began in Early Acts, Acts 3: 23-26, but was temporarily interrupted, Romans 11:25-27.

You have yet to sort out why Peter had refused to go to Cornelius, or why he was compelled to water baptize him.

You are as confused about all that as you are about justification by faith alone.

Acts 17:11, 12

 

[Interplanner]

So, according to YOU.... everyone must get wet to be saved. AND that they should do all of these...

Mark 16:17-18 (AKJV/PCE)​

(16:17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; (16:18) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
​

Do you do ALL of those?

• Cast out devils
• Speak in new tougues
• Take up serpents
• Not hurt by drinking deadly things
• Lay hand on the sick and heal them

I didn't think so.

Mark meant that there would be life-giving indications from people who believed the Gospel and spread it. There happens to be something rather healing about finding out that death has been conquered, you know!

 

[Right Divider]

Mark meant that there would be life-giving indications from people who believed the Gospel and spread it.

That's not what it says, story teller.

There happens to be something rather healing about finding out that death has been conquered, you know!

If you think that is what Jesus was saying, then you are even dumber than I thought.

 

[Danoh]

Mark meant that there would be life-giving indications from people who believed the Gospel and spread it. There happens to be something rather healing about finding out that death has been conquered, you know!

Sure he did, yeah, okay, if you say so.

Here, let me break down just one of those for ya - the "if they drink any deadly thing..." according - to - Scripture, Isaiah 8:20.

The context of Mark 16 is described in, and began way back in the following...

Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 10:18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. 10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

In other words, Mark 16 will be referring to that same context...to events AFTER His Resurrection but BEFORE His return...for, to His Words in Matthew 10, He added the following, in...

Mark 13:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, 13:4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled? 13:5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you: 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 13:7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet. 13:8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows. 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations. 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. 13:12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Here is Mark 16, which is AFTER His Resurrection but BEFORE His return...

Mark 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

What's that about how that "if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them;"?

Where is that in Scripture?

That, you over-relier on the traditions of men over the Scripture, is this...

Revelation 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Their sealing FIRST, is what will then allow them to "drink any deadly thing" unharmed.

In contrast to every one else...

Revelation 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

Carry on, IP, wilfully ignorant of these things as ever...

Isaiah 8:20

Acts 17: 11, 12

 

[Clete]

Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
What was the good news about the kingdom?

Acts 20:25 And now, behold, I know that none of you among whom I have gone about proclaiming the kingdom will see my face again.
What was Paul proclaiming about the kingdom?

When did Jew and Gentile become one new body?

I just wiped out of whole response to this post because it occurred to me that you could be asking something other than what I was responding too.

This looks to me like an attempt to reboot the whole discussion from the beginning with the tactic being for you to get me to respond to each and every proof/problem text that you think could be involved in the discussion while waiting for me to say something that you think equates to me falling into some sort of trap.

How, for example, do you think that one of the Twelve Apostles preaching in Samaria, prior to Paul even being converted, is an issue for me? I don't get it.

If you have an argument to make then just make it.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[john w]

Those aren't my words. That's the words of my Lord and Savior.
Why should I not believe what the bible says?

That settles it. Fine. Sell all you have. Raise the dead..................Those are "the words of my Lord and Savior." Why should you not believe what the bible says?

 

[Danoh]

That settles it. Fine. Sell all you have. Raise the dead..................Those are "the words of my Lord and Savior." Why should you not believe what the bible says?

Come on, JohnW - how do you expect the guy to be able to continue to promote his confusion on here if he sells his laptop, computer, smartphone - you are not being realistic - those passages were before our modern day - now we don't have to sell all we have that we might give alms - now we have crowd funding via the Internet.

Read your ESword...

:chuckle:

Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[john w]

Come on, JohnW - how do you expect the guy to be able to continue to promote his confusion on here if he sells his laptop, computer, smartphone - you are not being realistic - those passages were before our modern day - now we don't have to sell all we have that we might give alms - now we have crowd funding via the Internet.

Read your ESword...


:chuckle:

Rom. 5:6-8.

Understood, oh of Dan! And, as a "corollary," brainwashed members of the boc, and the lost,want a LORD God, who talks to them, in His word, as their "Facebook" as their, "friends," as their "peeps," a LORD God who talks to them, like they "communicate" on "the WWNet," as they text/"talk" on their cell phones, a "comfortable," "buddy," informal LORD God, in the "Modern" "the" "English," 'splainin' the hundreds of corrupt "versions," since the late 1800's, replacing the KJB, as we all have "evolved," become more "intelligent," more "cultured," in heppin' the LORD God out, as we all quip, "LOL....My bad...Just sayin'....What ev's...................." Another subject....I digress...

 

[Interplanner]

The apostles received the Holy Spirit with no mention of baptism and it was evident by speaking in tongues.
Acts 2:1 When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3 And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested[a] on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

When Peter preached the gospel, he tells them to be baptized and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
We do not see them speaking in tongues. It says they were in awe by what the apostles did.
Acts 2:43 And awe came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles.

We do not see anyone receiving the Holy Spirit and evident by speaking in tongues again until Cornelius. When Peter says they received the Holy Spirit like "us at the beginning" it has to be the apostles because it's exactly the same.

Cornelius was a special situation to prove the to the Jews that without any doubt the Gentiles were to be included.
Acts 11:15 As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 If then God gave the same gift to them as he gave to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?” 18 When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”

Anyway, that's the way I understand it.

The baptism of the Spirit was a figure of speech without any reference to anything done in water. AKA a baptism of fire. Or Jesus' saying there was a baptism to undergo which the discples could not undergo.

 

[Interplanner]

Well, if you had read scripture, you would know that the noble thing to do would be to search the scriptures daily, not search Josephus.

By nature, you can't search Scripture without searching history, archeology, etymology, grammar. It would help if you'd say something meaningful here.

Your little club is the one that has a fright when they find out that Acts 5 or 21 refers to incidents "outside" the Bible as the Bible was a sealed sort of reality unrelated to anything else forever.

 

[whitestone]

By nature, you can't search Scripture without searching history, archeology, etymology, grammar. It would help if you'd say something meaningful here.

Your little club is the one that has a fright when they find out that Acts 5 or 21 refers to incidents "outside" the Bible as the Bible was a sealed sort of reality unrelated to anything else forever.

lol,, "by nature",,,lol your missing John 14:26 KJV and you know it and the next best thing is to look at all that stuff instead...

 

[whitestone]

lol,Seems to me that someone thinks Acts 11:19 KJV ain't quite so historically accurate and....lol,

 

[Clete]

The Bible forms an organic whole. It is the story of Salvation History and it is for all people. Certain parts are not just for certain peoples. That is a vile heresy.

Oh! Well, if you say its a vile heresy, we'd better all just drop it then!

Thanks!




Prayed in a temple much lately? - No!
Did you kill an unblemished lamb about three weeks ago? - No!
Still circumcising your male children on their 8th day, are ya? - No!
How much did you get for all your land and possessions that your sold and gave to the church? - None! Because that part of the bible isn't for you, right?



Everyone Christian I've ever met or even heard of is a dispensationalist to one degree or another. The only question is whether they are logically consistent with it or do they just pick and choose which parts of the bible they wish to apply directly to the practice of their faith and which they do not based on little or nothing other than their personal preferences.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[turbosixx]

So, according to YOU.... everyone must get wet to be saved.

Not according to me but according to what Jesus said.
Mk. 16:15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

I don't understand why it's so hard to accept. Paul did just as Jesus said.
Acts 18:8 Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.

 

[turbosixx]

You are as confused

What's confusing to me is how some claim that Paul was given a different gospel, not from man, that does not include baptism yet we see Paul doing just as Jesus instructed.
Mk. 16:15 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Acts 18:8 Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.

 

[turbosixx]

I just wiped out of whole response to this post because it occurred to me that you could be asking something other than what I was responding too.

Been there done that. I try to be clear in my questions but it's hard and I don't use a lot of words.

How, for example, do you think that one of the Twelve Apostles preaching in Samaria, prior to Paul even being converted, is an issue for me? I don't get it.

That wasn't exactly my point. What I'm trying to understand is this kingdom program. What I see is Jesus saying the kingdom is at hand. Then after his DBR, people proclaiming the kingdom.
Here Philip is preaching the good news about the kingdom and baptizing the believers.
Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Here after Paul has baptized some believers he goes into the synagogue and persuades about the kingdom.
Acts 19:8 And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.

In your understanding, what is Paul trying to persuade them about the kingdom?

 

[turbosixx]

The baptism of the Spirit was a figure of speech without any reference to anything done in water. AKA a baptism of fire. Or Jesus' saying there was a baptism to undergo which the discples could not undergo.

I agree about some but I would suggest to you that "baptism with the Holy Spirit" wasn't a figure of speech but actually happened twice.
Here Jesus tells the apostles they will be "baptized with the Holy Spirit".
Acts 1:5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
Now we know it was directly from God, no laying of hands, and evident by speaking in tongues.

The next time we see the exact same thing is with Cornelius and Peter says is was like "us" at the beginning.
Acts 11:15 As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
Peter recognizes this as just like when they received the Holy Spirit and just as Jesus had said. To my knowledge this is the only two times we see "baptized with the Holy Spirit"

 

[Danoh]

The baptism of the Spirit was a figure of speech without any reference to anything done in water. AKA a baptism of fire. Or Jesus' saying there was a baptism to undergo which the discples could not undergo.

Neither is the reference to being baptized WITH the Spirit, merely a figure of speech, nor is said baptism the same as John's mention also, of a baptism WITH fire.

Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

He said what he said within the context in which he has been addressing the Pharisees and the Sadducees - the wrath to come that they are sure to end up in should they continue to reject the council of God against themselves (John's call to Israel unto this baptism of repentance / of turning back to the God of their fathers)...

3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

There's that fire and it is literal. As literal as John's baptism with water and the Lord's baptism with the Spirit after His Resurrection...

3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

The fire there refers to "The wrath to come."

You see that punctuation after the word "fire:" - it was added by the translators because they understood John then elaborates on what he means by his use of the word "fire..."

3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

That is two groups - the same two groups represented by the wheat and the tares in Matthew 13.

Matthew 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Just a matter of putting away both one's "well, what this means to me is..." and one's reliance on the ever endless guessings at of men in their equally ever endless books supposedly "based on" or "about" the Scripture.

Just a matter of the nobility of more time in Scripture itself; repeatedly familiarizing oneself with the whole of its terrain.

Over, and over, and over...

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 17:12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[Danoh]

What's confusing to me is how some claim that Paul was given a different gospel, not from man, that does not include baptism yet we see Paul doing just as Jesus instructed.
Mk. 16:15 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Acts 18:8 Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.

Well, at least you admitted you are confused.

There is seeming hope for you yet.

:chuckle:

Rom. 5:6-8.