Cross Reference
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You are deluded. You follow fables purposed to ensnare the made to fear gullible.
ECT HOW GOD SPEAKS TO US: The Catholic Teaching
- Thread starter Cruciform
- Start date
You are deluded. You follow fables purposed to ensnare the made to fear gullible.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Why not?
How did your present traditions start?
Who initiated them?
Who decided that your officials had to wear the hats they wear?
Cruciform
New member
Because authoritative Catholic teachings can only be promulgated by the Church's Magisterium as a whole, which does not include you. The Magisterium alone possesses the ability to guide and teach the faithful in Christ's own name and by his very authority (Mt. 28:18-20; Lk. 10:16; Ac. 16:4; 2 Thess. 3:4; 1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Jn. 4:6).
The apostolic Magisterium of Christ's one historic Catholic Church.
The apostolic Magisterium of Christ's one historic Catholic Church. Why? What does clothing matter?
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
Cross Reference
New member
Ah, so they are the ones who got it all wrong?? Where do you fit it?
Where exactly do you think "scripture" comes from?
Cruciform
New member
"Keep in mind that the Church came before the New Testament, not the New Testament before the Church. Divinely-inspired members of the Church wrote the books of the New Testament, just as divinely-inspired writers had written the Old Testament, and the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit to guard and interpret the entire Bible, both Old and New Testaments.
Such an official interpreter is absolutely necessary if we are to understand the Bible properly. (We all know what the Constitution says, but we still need a Supreme Court to interpret what it means.)
The Magisterium is infallible when it teaches officially because Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit to guide the apostles and their successors "into all truth" (John 16:12–13).
http://www.catholic.com/documents/pillar-of-fire-pillar-of-truth
Such an official interpreter is absolutely necessary if we are to understand the Bible properly. (We all know what the Constitution says, but we still need a Supreme Court to interpret what it means.)
The Magisterium is infallible when it teaches officially because Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit to guide the apostles and their successors "into all truth" (John 16:12–13).
http://www.catholic.com/documents/pillar-of-fire-pillar-of-truth
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
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Cross Reference
New member
So only the apostles were so equipped to understand the scriptures and no one else. I see __ er no, I don't see. I take it that is the reason your RCC locked away the scriptures from the masses for a 1000yrs __ to protect your church, I suppose?
Jedidiah
New member
I offered an opinion. The proof that I hold that opinion, is my offering of that opinion, which I already did.
In this case, the proof that my opinion is, "If Peter had been in Rome, when Paul wrote Romans, then I think Paul would have mentioned him, in Romans," is my offering the opinion itself, namely, that, "If Peter had been in Rome, when Paul wrote Romans, then I think Paul would have mentioned him, in Romans." :idunno:
In this case, the proof that my opinion is, "If Peter had been in Rome, when Paul wrote Romans, then I think Paul would have mentioned him, in Romans," is my offering the opinion itself, namely, that, "If Peter had been in Rome, when Paul wrote Romans, then I think Paul would have mentioned him, in Romans." :idunno:
Cruciform
New member
So, then, no actual proof whatsoever. Noted.
Jedidiah
New member
In one ear and out the other with you, huh ? All right, I'll play that way with you, too.
Cruciform
New member
No need, I think we're done here. Take care, now.
Jedidiah
New member
Noted. Take care now. No need.
oatmeal
Well-known member
I can do that and have done that, those verses are not exclusive to a handful of men
Who defy the truths of scripture
Evidently, your official's clothing matters to your magestrium, who picks the wardrobe? Why the funny hats? Isn't the righteousness of God sufficient to cover their heads, their thinking?
You need to start a tradition of putting God first
Cross Reference
New member
Cruxee, I believe you fit the mold/example of a "reality Lapsarian".
GODS VOICE---COMES THROUGH JESUS
NOT THE POPE
Acts 2:36-39
36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
Heb 2:17-18
17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
Heb 1:1-2
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
John 5:37
37 "And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
John 7:17
17 "If anyone wants to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority.
John 12:49-50
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."
John 3:34-35
34 "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.
35 "The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand.
John 14:1
1"Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.
John 5:22-23
22 "For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son,
23 "that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
John 3:17-18
17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
2 Cor 10:4-5
4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,
5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
II Jn 1:9-11
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
Heb 12:24-29
24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.
25 See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven,
26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also heaven."
27 Now this, "Yet once more," indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear.
29 For our God is a consuming fire.
(NKJ)
xxxxGod doesnt speak to us personally. God speaks to Jesus personally. And Jesus speaks to us through the Word. Jesus said unless I go away the Holy Spirit will not come to you, so Jesus had to leave. But the Holy Spirit abides in us and quotes the verses of the Word to us. The Holy Spirit is our teacher with the Word of God.
John 10:27-29
27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
(NKJ)
John 10:15-16
15 "As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
16 "And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
(NKJ)
NOT THE POPE
Acts 2:36-39
36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
Heb 2:17-18
17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
Heb 1:1-2
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
John 5:37
37 "And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
John 7:17
17 "If anyone wants to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority.
John 12:49-50
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."
John 3:34-35
34 "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.
35 "The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand.
John 14:1
1"Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.
John 5:22-23
22 "For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son,
23 "that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
John 3:17-18
17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
2 Cor 10:4-5
4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,
5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
II Jn 1:9-11
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
Heb 12:24-29
24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.
25 See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven,
26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also heaven."
27 Now this, "Yet once more," indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear.
29 For our God is a consuming fire.
(NKJ)
xxxxGod doesnt speak to us personally. God speaks to Jesus personally. And Jesus speaks to us through the Word. Jesus said unless I go away the Holy Spirit will not come to you, so Jesus had to leave. But the Holy Spirit abides in us and quotes the verses of the Word to us. The Holy Spirit is our teacher with the Word of God.
John 10:27-29
27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
(NKJ)
John 10:15-16
15 "As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
16 "And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
(NKJ)
Cruciform
New member
On the contrary. The texts I cited all apply specifically to the apostles/bishops of Christ's one historic Church, and not to every individual believer (context). Try again.
...rather, who defy oat's preferred interpretations of Scripture. Big difference there.
I assume, then, that you walk around naked 24/7? :doh: In any case, see this.
Always have, always will.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+